Quoting: ArtenSo... nvidia hopes, that somebody choose their GPU for deck like handheld with steamOS? Ot they planing to make one?

Good upscaling is crucial for handhald device, if you want just conect it to display and play on larger screen...

May be related to this, in some way?

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/07/nvidia-shows-off-rtx-and-dlss-on-arm-using-arch-linux

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: constAnyway, they were among the first to jump the Humble Linux train that got everything started and I'll never forget that. Linux gaming today only exists because of some critical events and the HIBs were a key part of this.

Trine 2 was the first game I bought for Linux.

Yep... Sitting on my couch, my Inspiron N5110 on my lap. Still remember that moment. Good'ol times, when everything felt new!

It didn't start up at first, all just black, and I wasn't even disappointed, I felt like it had to be like this, 'cause, you know... it's Linux, it cannot be for gaming!

My Inspiron had a Radeon HD6470m with 512mb VRAM... Considering the driver support for AMD products, back then... The input lag made the game barely playable... But I kept on gaming, because "It's on Linux and Steam is in beta".

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: constAnyway, they were among the first to jump the Humble Linux train that got everything started and I'll never forget that. Linux gaming today only exists because of some critical events and the HIBs were a key part of this.

Trine 2 was the first game I bought for Linux.

Yep... Sitting on my couch, my Inspiron N5110 on my lap. Still remember that moment. Good'ol times, when everything felt new!

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More often than not, the games I'm referring to are persistent worlds where there is no end of updates, just like WoW or FF XIV which often includes a subscription model... Want to pay 15$/month for a game that may break the next day?

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: GuestI don't understand why you guys are bashing frozenbyte for not bothering to "support" proton. That's exactly the same situation of every other game on the steamdeck, no support at all from developers and publishers.

And those games simply aren't worth very much.

Let's have some axioms that even the most cash-strapped developer will agree are true.

Axiom 1:

Spoiler, click me

A game that doesn't work at all is worth absolutely nothing. It's not worth possessing, even if they give it away for free.

This sets a floor. If your game doesn't even work in Proton, it's worth exactly £0.00.

Axiom 2:

Spoiler, click me

IF someone reports the bug to Valve, and IF Valve go through the effort of determining the cause, and IF they can persuade the developers to fix their game... eventually they might provide a fix

compared to

Before release a dev sees that an update doesn't work on one of their test targets and fixes it

One of these things is much more valuable than the other.

This starts to show a scale of value for the developer keeping their game working. If a developer makes sure that it will continue to work, that is more valuable than if they don't, and the price should reflect that.

Axiom 3:

Spoiler, click me

The game has some kind of problem, and you contact the developer about it.

The developer tells you to go stick your head in a pig.

or

The developer doesn't tell you to go stick your head in a pig.

One of these things is much more valuable than the other.

Here we see the value of having recourse. A game where the developer announces on the Store page that my platform is supported, and the requirements of that support, gives me recourse should the developer fail to deliver: I have something that I can point to when getting the refund that shows that they have specifically broken their commitment. That has value.

And, good news for developers: it's really easy to get money from me. All you have to do is

• Make a game I want to play for the platform I play games on


• Use your whole arse

Do those and I'll pay you with a smile on my face. So that establishes a ceiling: a fully-supported game is worth 100%. For others, their circumstances mean that their ceiling will be lower, but the hierarchy of value is the same.

And, hey, more good news: testing your game on as many different platforms as you can; different environments, different compilers, different schedulers and memory managers, all of that - lets you find bugs easier, faster, and more cheaply, for all of your platforms, even if you never make a single Linux sale.

For me, the tiers work out as
Doesn't work at all: 0%
Accidentally works in Proton: 10%
Deliberately works in Proton: 50%
Deliberately works on Linux: 100%

Others may be more generous, or less so.

There we have a sliding scale that gives more value to the game developer in exchange for the greater value they provide to the customer. More Tux, more bucks.

Now, just me applying the sliding scale to my purchases probably isn't going to make that much difference to a developer. Even if every Linux gamer applied the same scale, it might not make that much difference. A lot of developers are perfectly content to be at the blunt end of "no Tux, no bucks." If everyone that bought a Deck applied the scale, though, maybe that would demonstrate the correct market signals for them.

Nice one! Should be considering the "online game" criteria. I wouldn't pay a dime for an online game that works accidentally through Proton. Those games are way to prone to breakage after an update, which are way too frequent. The developers must at least officially support Proton, in those cases.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: MohandevirThat's why I won't and we shouldn't speculate on what the Steam Deck can and can't do.

Awwwww!!! You're no fun.

Ok, ok, we may speculate... Like if I had any authority on the matter...

I just wanted to highlight the fact that there is a lot of unknown variables that only Valve knows of... Atm, we are speculating while assuming that the situation will be exactly like it is today... I get the feeling that it's going to be a completely different picture, when the first units begins to ship. Valve seems to be keeping things pretty close to the chest, with the Steam Deck. We won't have a reliable idea until then, imo. My 2 cents.

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I don't know if Valve could go to the extent of asking for minimal Proton compatibility in Steam's "SDK"?

Probably not, as it would probably anger some developers, but that could make Linux 100% compatible. Who knows, it might come to this if the Steam Deck becomes a big deal?

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That's why I won't and we shouldn't speculate on what the Steam Deck can and can't do. The hardware performances are unknown, the version of Proton used is not either and EAC support seems more than a wishfull thinking, with this kind of news. We may be positively surprised in many of these aspects.

I might have put on my rose tinted glasses, but I will trust Valve on this (fingers crossed), until they are proven wrong. Since they seem pretty confident in the Steam Deck, I can't believe they will make the same mistake of under-delivering twice (Steam Machines)...

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I'm no specialist, but from what I read, there is also the possibility of optimizing the code for the Steam Deck to get that extra performance, in a native build, that you can't get with Proton. Am I wrong to think so?

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Quoting: sub

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: sub

Quoting: GuestI guess I should point out that Valve have never said anything they do is intended to lead to more native ports. Quite the opposite actually - they've officially said not to bother!

So just like Google never said that Stadia would encourage native desktop GNU/Linux game development and people kind of assumed it would happen, Valve have never said it either and it probably won't happen.

This was one concern long ago about the approach VP did, but at least they supported the title running under GNU/Linux. There's not even that here, and native development (and support) is being discouraged - the result of which is this news. I can't see it ending well for GNU/Linux desktop gaming.

It would make more sense to me to encourage devs/publisher to provide native builds and have Proton as a fallback.
Best would be to establish in-house know how and awareness for nativ ports. Doesn't happen this way.

Just think Microsoft comes up with a Direct3D 13, completely incompatible and there is no such working Proton channel.
No way they could pull off something reliably working within months.

Proton (and Steam Deck) will gain compatibility at a similar time frame than other consoles on the market. Consoles usually play catch up with PC, anyway.

But console builds ARE native builds.
They are fine in this picture.

All I wanted to highlight is, you're creating strong unhealthy dependencies on MS.

Yep, but what I mean, it's that the user that knows nothing about PC architecture that will buy the Steam Deck because of the hardware will not notice that distinction. On the surface, it's the same.

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