the bad news is the rate of growth of this list vs steam game list...
sure there are a bunch of shovelware on steam but still... the % of compatible games tend to reduce over time.

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Quoting: HighballGoogle has also been very careful not to allow hackers to run away with their devices. Any normal dev will just wax ChromeOS and load Ubuntu onto the device without a second of hesitation. Instead they control how you get access to the linux side of things; see Crostini. To me it looks like Google wants to sell devices at a loss so they can saturate the market and out compete on price. Mean while make their money harvesting data and delivering ads. "You're getting a device with security in mind. *wink*"

you cant say "linux is easy to use" and say "it can run this game, just follow this tutorial on wineHQ" at the same sentence.

one of the issues with linux is that we tried to market it as something easy to use, and something that can play games at the same time, but if you wanted to do both, you had to suffer, i remember following some tutorials to play some games, end up in a rabbit hole too big and giving up on the game, normal people would give up on linux instead.
my worst nightmare was tera, 5 days to install (for some reason the installer took forever to download on linux) then, followed all the tutorial right, and... it didnt worked! the worst part was that i was not willing to delete the 50GB files, i had hope to make it work someday to not have wasted 5 days for nothing...
oh, did i mentioned that i had to try 2 because i dared to use the computer at the same time that this 5 days download took place and it crashed the installer and i had to restart?
another nightmare was games that some people were able to install using an combination of gpu vendor (eg: ati) + distro + wine version number+version of the game, but if any of those change then people werent able to run (eg: only run on ati, only run on nvidia, only run on ubuntu, only run on fedora, only run on wine 1.7.53, only run in the version 1.2 of the game)
good luck with that...

i think google was smarther , consoles cant do nearly as much as an linux device like the steamdeck can, but they dont get the bad reputation of linux for being harder to use because they can only do one thing and do it well.
dont get me wrong i dont think steam deck should be closed as an console, the way it is, is perfect, but that was only possible thanks to proton and the valve enormous effort in QA.

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Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: CatKillerNope. Until last year ChromeOS the UI and ChromeOS the browser were exactly the same binary. The change last year to separate them was to make ChromeOS more Linux-like.

They dabbled with having web-apps-but-packaged-differently for a while but dropped that (as Google tends to do) a few years ago in favour of just-web-apps.

This is mind-boggling. And makes me all kinds of confused. I skimmed the Ars article at the time and figured it could only be good.

Is the Steam program for ChromeOS just some kind of weirdly packaged webapp pretending not to be a webapp? Can it not run normal binaries? What about CrossOver? On the one hand, so long as web environment integrity is not a thing, that's great for compatibility for all OSes. Rising tides and all that.

But why would you purposely GIMP your OS like that?? It's one thing to be web-first, but web-only is something else...

(with apologies to the current GIMP maintainers)

Quoting: CatKillerThe thing that ChromeOS can do that desktop Linux can't (but which Windows can) is run Android applications. But people generally don't think of Android (or Windows) as a desktop Linux OS.

I remember there being something that could do that on Linux. Waydroid?

1)security, you only have to deal with one attack vector.
2)convincing developers to target the web seems to be way easier than convincing then to target linux (not to mention linux is not a single target)
3)google had an google "control" over the internet, more people using it would mean more space for then to fill with ads or to collect data.
4)??
5)profit

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Quoting: WorMzyWho makes up these percentages? People checking statcounter.com to see who's checking statcounter.com?

just like ads pay people to host their ads, they put javascript code in thirdy party sites (probably paying then to host it) so they can get this date, or purchase this info from someone who gather this data.

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Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualI'm willing to accept this if programs built for ChromeOS work on Linux distributions like Arch, Ubuntu, Fedora, and openSUSE. Is that the case?

That way round is trivial: ChromeOS uses web apps. The other way round is harder, but ChromeOS has been able to run Linux applications in a container for around five years. Work is ongoing to make Steam and Steam games on ChromeOS a thing.

Well, sure, web applications work on everything. The New Java. I'm sure that's what's at least partially motivating Adobe to port Photoshop to the Web in some limited form.

I've never owned a Chromebook—surely there are native programs on there not accessible from the web? I know CrossOver has its own ChromeOS version. I know the main point is the web, but since you can install Steam and play Steam games, that's at least one program you can use.

But the way you phrased it makes me think native ChromeOS programs don't actually work on Linux

If Adobe comes out with its entire suite for ChromeOS (namely After Effects) but it doesn't work on Linux, I would not consider ChromeOS a Linux distribution, because it being "based on Linux" would mean nothing for the effective market share of Linux.

maybe not directly but it could have some indirectly, like having better support for game engines like unity or unreal as result of then having an similiar base.
or more games using vulkan

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualI'm willing to accept this if programs built for ChromeOS work on Linux distributions like Arch, Ubuntu, Fedora, and openSUSE. Is that the case?

That way round is trivial: ChromeOS uses web apps. The other way round is harder, but ChromeOS has been able to run Linux applications in a container for around five years. Work is ongoing to make Steam and Steam games on ChromeOS a thing.

Well, sure, web applications work on everything. The New Java. I'm sure that's what's at least partially motivating Adobe to port Photoshop to the Web in some limited form.

I've never owned a Chromebook—surely there are native programs on there not accessible from the web? I know CrossOver has its own ChromeOS version. I know the main point is the web, but since you can install Steam and play Steam games, that's at least one program you can use.

But the way you phrased it makes me think native ChromeOS programs don't actually work on Linux

If Adobe comes out with its entire suite for ChromeOS (namely After Effects) but it doesn't work on Linux, I would not consider ChromeOS a Linux distribution, because it being "based on Linux" would mean nothing for the effective market share of Linux.

i agree but it would have some indirect effects, like more game engines supporting linux, or better support for linux (since the base is the same), or more games supporting vulkan/with better vulkan support, or more developers learning it.

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Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: Mal

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualIt's definitely great that Epic won the antitrust case, because that means Google lost, and Google is the first large tech company in more than 20 years to lose an antitrust case. It indicates a paradigm shift. Hopefully the remedies will be meaningful.

Dunno. As far as I can see, it just means the end of semi walled gardens platforms. Sweeney might think that he can just start leeching from Google work on Android, but his win combined with Apple one is just a signal to tech firms that US law allows closed systems or open systems, no mid ground. Google will most likely rectify this by building its own iPhones. I guess it's good overall, Android was a little hypocritical in the end (technically open, but not commercially due to Google deals behind the scenes). It was just a mean to prevent the likes of Samsung, LG and the rest to play competitors at a time when Google had no hardware experience. But now it has it. For a time it will look interesting but I'm 80% sure it will end the same way as now, just with iPhones vs Pixels instead of droids. All the rest marginalized. And more transparency on the business models which doesn't hurt.

Apple won the antitrust case against Epic, didn't they?

Android is open source. It's the Google apps that aren't. Ars has a great breakdown of how Google maintains control over Android: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/

Google has set things up such that competitors stay in their own lane and present a united front against Apple. OEMs are allowed to ship Android on devices, but if they want Google Maps, Google Play, and Google Play Services, they need to comply with Google's rules (namely, don't build an alternative app store or maintain your own Android fork). It's already a monopoly in Google's favor; it's not as if antitrust remedies could make it worse. OEMs are already at Google's mercy, except for the really big ones like Amazon and Huawei. Google is bundling two distinct products together just like IE and Windows.

Google has far less control over powerful app publishers like Epic. It's why they needed to resort to bribery to stop Epic from offering a competing service.

I don't think Epic is interested in "leeching" from Google's work on Android. They want to develop their own payment system so they don't need to give Google a 30% cut. In a competitive market, they should be allowed to do that.

Google Pixels own a pitiful percentage of the phone market compared to other Android phones (I say this owning a Pixel myself). It has less than 5% of most markets. The Nexus phones were the same way. Google Pixels, just like every other Android phone, are just a platform for Google to offer their services to Android users. Google doesn't care about making money directly from phones; they're a software company. They only built a browser so they could make Google search the default. Android exists for the same reason.

If Google stops releasing new sources for Android, Samsung will just fork it, leave the OHA, create their own Play Store and APIs for apps, start building replacements for Google's apps, and app developers will scramble to move to that platform because it's the biggest Android platform by far. Most other OEMs will flee to that fork of Android too. Google gains nothing from this, but they lose a lot.

But in case it wasn't clear, fuck Epic.

holyshit i didnt knew google gripes on android were that strong

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Did you see the bug-fugly Lego Fortnite? It's Lego assets dumped into realistic-looking vistas, which completely defeats the point of it being Lego.



Clearly, Epic hired This Man. (Which, as we all know, is a problem. )[/quote]
actually that was a real demmand from the players... but it came in the form of mods in the past , now big companies apropriate it as "canon" colabs...

its a double edge sword, in some cases those colabs are better than any fan made thing could do (because fans would have trouble to change too many game systems for their mods to work, compare mugem to smash bross for example, smash is well balanced and polished, mugem you have to balance it yourself or download from someone who is competent enough to do that)

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Quoting: MalDunno. As far as I can see, it just means the end of semi walled gardens platforms. Sweeney might think that he can just start leeching from Google work on Android, but his win combined with Apple one is just a signal to tech firms that US law allows closed systems or open systems, no mid ground. Google will most likely rectify this by building its own iPhones. I guess it's good overall, Android was a little hypocritical in the end (technically open, but not commercially due to Google deals behind the scenes). It was just a mean to prevent the likes of Samsung, LG and the rest to play competitors at a time when Google had no hardware experience. But now it has it. For a time it will look interesting but I'm 80% sure it will end the same way as now, just with iPhones vs Pixels instead of droids. All the rest marginalized. And more transparency on the business models which doesn't hurt.

i was thinking about it right now, epic will probably try again with apple and google will appeal as well, if things stay as they are, then it will prove that US government protect proprietary systems and walled gardens while punish open ones.

its a good thing that google loses, but at least android was open source, we might lose all the positives instead of the negatives on this situation.
android might get forked with tons of oem branded brands that lose compatibility with each other as time passes because each oem want to have their own proprietary and exclusive apis, and that will show that the same can happen to linux but cant happen to microsoft.

I dont think it will though, i think android will be more windows like, google will lose it main source of revenue for developing it, and i dont think that will set a good precedent for open source in general, at least if apple dont get the same deal.
and if the same dont happen soon after for playstation, nintendo and xbox.

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Quoting: KingKrouchAre suddenly now wanting tens of millions of users on the Steam Deck before they even consider ticking off a checkbox to enable anti-cheat support for Fortnite, when both EAC (the anti-cheat they own) and BattlEye supports Proton. This is just the same mental gymnastics as Ubisoft has been making for Rainbow Six Siege.

You'd think that with the Steam Deck being the most accessible way to get into PC Gaming at the moment (in terms of price and convenience), that Epic would be fine with it, as they could indirectly get more people to buy into their ecosystem, as most games on their store works just fine on Heroic Games Launcher (Which even under Windows is an objectively better experience than their own launcher), but apparently not.

i dont believe its just a question of ticking an checkbox, sure for games that dont implement all easy anti cheat features, it might be, but the demmand for cheating in a game might be proportional to the ammount of players such game have, the issue was never that people would sundely became tech savy and learn how to develop hacking solutions, but that they will purchase such solutions if they are avaliable on the market, and its a market that move hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars, in an game with 1/4 of billions of players the demmand for a cheating solution must be ridiculous high and the potential profits for developing such a solution is enough to power an big company hiring tons of hackers.

in that sense, i believe him when he said that its not easy to make an anti cheat solution that work for an big game like fortinite especially on linux, if you look at consoles they are much more closed than windows and they have more protection against online cheaters as an result.
anti cheats act like an malware, and linux is super safe against it, its like DRM, the main goal of linux is to allow users to do whataver he want , in the contest of media that means piracy so DRM is innefective, that is why netflix just suport 720p on linux, in the contest of gaming do whatever you want mean breaking the rules of the systems, be it in mods or cheating, mods dont harm other players so there is no need to prevent then, cheating on the other hand...

but you mentioned something that i havent think about...
epic store supporting linux, there is no reason to not do it, hell if lutris and heroic already did that, they could at least ensure us that they will not break it, testing it against those programs before they launch an update, or allowing us to use an older version of their client in cases where it break it for us.

its shamefull that an gigantic corporation cant port their store to linux but an team of pretty much volunteers only can make it work.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: tfkHey Sweeney, are you making a profit yet?

if i had my game finished already i would say something like:
i will publish it on epic games store once it have tens of millions of users

I'm afraid it does. Mind you, none of them are buying games there, they're all just playing Fortnite.

that is the joke, it dont matter how many users it have if no one purchases anything, implying that it has no users or that no one purchase anything have the same effect for all intents and purposes.

but my main point it use his words against himself

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