Quoting: LoftyDo you really think they will have 100% stability on release without bugs on 5,000+ games including all new titles released from this point onwards? I don't (nor do i think they have to).
Unless you mean the machine will have the same version of proton installed as the desktop client which given the nature of the hardware is such an obvious given i hadn't considered you were making that point.

Well they claim that this is what they aim for, I have zero expectations that they will reach 100% but I also don't think that they will have to reach 100% without bugs to not have the casual gamer throw the device away. Atleast not an a scale that matters.

And it's not an impossible goal, this is not magic and beyond the DRM-protections no game should reach into parts of Windows where WINE cannot easily replicate functionality. That WINE has not gone full 100% compatible for decades already is simply down to lack of resources (except the DRM cases, but here we have Valve claiming that they are working with the largest DRM vendors so...).

Console gaming regardless of it's Nintendo, Microsoft or Sony is not 100% bug-free either, I've experienced plenty of games that lock-up the entire console but still there is no huge movement among people to throw out their consoles.

Then of course people always treat Linux differently and to a higher standard for some reason so I'm not 100% sure of course. Microsoft can fuck people over without repercussions just like IBM of old.

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

Then I fail to understand your original comment even less with the "if things don't work". If the device is not defunct then "things do work" so help me understand here because I'm at a total loss?!

Your missing the nuance. There was no mention that valve believed they were selling a defunct product, that was your statement. But the expectation of a typical consumer has to be managed as there will be problems along the way with compatibility.

So, this device is not 100% defunct and sold as such by valve because it doesn't run every single title that would be ridiculous. But the experience of many titles not working over time eats away at the experience. So there are those people will buy a working product and eventually give up on it (like the steam controller) if it does not meet expectations, hence end up in a cupboard dusty. Then other groups of Linux users who understand that this is a work in progress (like all valve products) and then the rest are the kind who install windows for compatibility.

i do think that the native experience from a performance standpoint maybe the best as AMD GPU drivers on windows aren't very good apparently, but that would only apply to OpenGL games. There would be more features of course on windows as users have the AMD control center and all of those kinds of goodies.

But that is under the expectation that Valve will release it with the same status as Proton / Steam for Linux is in right now. We have quotes from Valve that they expect 100% compatibility when it launches (which of course is not a pledge and perhaps just a pipe dream, but it does indicate that they are putting effort into making it actually happen).

And I don't think that the casual user will throw the box away just because some random game does not work, that is already the reality on Windows today (far from every game works on every Windows setup) and they are not throwing their windows machines away.

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Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: dubigrasuI can easily imagine that many will just strip SteamOS out of it and install Windows

I'm not sure they will. Installing an OS is a pain in the arse that most people don't do - it's one of the reasons why it's important that more vendors are pre-installing Linux. For non-gaming use cases you're not going to spend £500 on a device to use as an ebook reader or media device when there are way cheaper devices already available that will be better at those tasks (higher resolution screen, better battery life, no massive buttons), and for gaming use cases the experimental similar devices have had Windows being a detriment to the experience.

I'm pretty sure many will do that, basically almost all the Steam Machines (old and new) were stripped of SteamOS and went full Windows, the same with many Atari machines.
The poor game selection was definitely a factor for that, and hopefully it will be not the case for Steam Deck, but many gamers are enthusiast tinkerers and installing a familiar and proven OS is the least of their worries.

But those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

Doesn't change anything, even the "masses" have plenty of tinkerers willing for performance and a greater gaming library.
Look, what I basically said (in passing) is that if this device is sold (hopefully) in millions, there will be a percent of users that will install Windows on it. I don't really understand why is so hard to accept that, at least as a possibility.
Is it because the word "many" that I used? How many is "many"? If I change "many" with "some", will you guys stop the nitpicking?
And besides, that wasn't the point I was trying to make, but with an exception everybody glanced over it and got stuck on to the SteamOS wiping part.

I swear, I said many times to myself that I should stop posting, cos almost every time there's one guy that looks sideways to what I wrote and I end up arguing a point that I never actually made.

Edit: Fucking grammar.

Sorry wasn't trying to harass you and looks like I (and probably others) misinterpreted your post, your original post read to me as "most people will just install Windows on it anyway just like they did with the SteamBoxes", but I now with your clarification understand that I misread your post completely and now I fully agree with you.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Tom BI am a Linux gamer and I know exactly what sort of compatibility to expect. A general audience won't and valve seem to be marketing this with very high expectations. I think there will be a lot of complaints unfortunately because some games inevitably won't work.

Probably, yeah.
Although . . . I mean, if I were them I'd be doing a two-pronged approach. One would be pushing general Proton improvement + anti-cheat. The other would be a team going game by game, starting with the biggest seller on Steam and working their way down. If they could get the top 100 all to Platinum by launch, while the general team had pretty good coverage below that, it might be surprising how little of what people were wanting to play would fail.

Well there is this quote from Valve: "Our goal is for every game to work by the time we ship Steam Deck". Of course it's far from a pledge but still it does indicate that they have some plan here.

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

it's not defunct. it can run windows and linux.

Then I fail to understand your original comment even less with the "if things don't work". If the device is not defunct then "things do work" so help me understand here because I'm at a total loss?!

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: F.UltraBut those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

But those are the type of people who give up on the device if things don't work and it ends up dusty in a cupboard somewhere.

Why do you think that Valve is planing to sell a defunct product?

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Quoting: dubigrasu

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: dubigrasuI can easily imagine that many will just strip SteamOS out of it and install Windows

I'm not sure they will. Installing an OS is a pain in the arse that most people don't do - it's one of the reasons why it's important that more vendors are pre-installing Linux. For non-gaming use cases you're not going to spend £500 on a device to use as an ebook reader or media device when there are way cheaper devices already available that will be better at those tasks (higher resolution screen, better battery life, no massive buttons), and for gaming use cases the experimental similar devices have had Windows being a detriment to the experience.

I'm pretty sure many will do that, basically almost all the Steam Machines (old and new) were stripped of SteamOS and went full Windows, the same with many Atari machines.
The poor game selection was definitely a factor for that, and hopefully it will be not the case for Steam Deck, but many gamers are enthusiast tinkerers and installing a familiar and proven OS is the least of their worries.

But those where sold to enthusiasts and they reinstall their Windows on a daily basis, the Steam Deck if successful will be sold to the masses and they will never ever try to install anything.

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: dubigrasuWait, I see underneath paddles, 4 of them. Wasn't a big lawsuit about this?

Well the design of this was probably done before they got hit with that patent lawsuit. On the other hand perhaps they think that this new design isn't violating the patent or they have managed to license the patent (unlikely).

Who knows? It might not be considered a game controller, it's a handheld computer!

Most likely, Valve will probably pay for the rights to use the tech.

Well there is also the question if it's even possible to license that patent from Ironburg, many such patent holders never sell a single license and instead base their income on having exclusive rights to their "invention" or to sue for damages.

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Quoting: KohlyKohlI'm concerned about the size. It looks to be about 150% larger than the Switch and that was already a bit uncomfortable (It often ends up resting on me).

I'm also concerned about the switch to Arch. I would have preferred a more stable distribution such as Ubuntu.

Still, at the price point + specs for the base model, it will be hard to talk myself out of purchasing this.

Seams to be slightly larger than the Wii U gamepad and that one was quite comfortable for me at least.

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Quoting: dubigrasuWait, I see underneath paddles, 4 of them. Wasn't a big lawsuit about this?

Well the design of this was probably done before they got hit with that patent lawsuit. On the other hand perhaps they think that this new design isn't violating the patent or they have managed to license the patent (unlikely).

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