Humble Bundle number 13!

The thing is though, if games that use it sell well, then hopefully you would think people in future would program with Linux in mind for a native version, after all this is a game that has been out for a while.

Another small point to add to this is that, when you consider it fully, we are not actually gaining anything from this but are in fact actually losing something we already had. Instead of just gaining pseudo-support from one developer (as this implies) we are actually potentially losing full support from the Humble Bundle for other titles in the future. It used to seem be native assured, but now this throws that into question.

So why should we let ourselves lose what we already had?

The thing is though, if games that use it sell well, then hopefully you would think people in future would program with Linux in mind for a native version, after all this is a game that has been out for a while.

Tacking on wine support after is better than 0 support in my eyes, i don't have to mess with any configs still, it all installs for me just like it would natively.

The way I look at this particular issue is that if Linux users are buying products using Wine, then that erodes the potential customer base. From a publishing standpoint, if people on Linux have the ability to use Wine, then that's that market's needs met. If Wine can be seen as a legitimate option that consumers are happy with, then native support will be significantly harder to justify.

If it works it works!

Who knows maybe people will give more help towards Wine (maybe the humble guys should think about donating ;)).

I am frankly suprised by how many people are defending this, when it goes against everything the Bundle was (supposed) to be about, at least on Linux.

It was never supposed to be about WINE. It was supposed to be the catalyst for a more stable native market. Just because we are to be humble does not mean we need to allow ourselves to be tred on.

EDIT: Just to try and add a little levity:

Linux was like a party that sounded fun [but] we were afraid to go to because we didn’t think we’d know anybody there, and the HiB guys were like your socially fearless friend who says, “Don’t worry, we’ll go together.”

When he gets to your house he says: “Is that what you’re wearing?” and you say, “uh…” and he says, “Don’t worry. I know a guy.” And he lends you a cool leather jacket and you go to the party and when you walk in there’s a needle scratch and everybody turns to look at you and your friend gives a cool nod and then everybody goes back to the party.

So kind of like a John Hughes film. Hope that helps explain things. That’s about as technical as I can go. I just hope I don’t accidentally knock over a beer can pyramid that some tough guys are building.

Oh and also, if you want to be cool at the party, stay away from wine. (haha! Linux joke!)

[URL='http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/humble-bundle-devs-talk-gaming-on-linux?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG!+Ubuntu!%29']http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/06/humble-bundle-devs-talk-gaming-on-linux?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed: d0od (OMG! Ubuntu!)[/URL]

the bundle was (supposed) to be about?
i think it doesnt go against that.
if it works crossplatform (no matter if wine is used or not) then its "crossplatform".
wine is a good thing. it allows us to play the games that are never ported on our platform. it also runs some older games much better than u can run them in latest windows releases.
i do not own windows but i do buy windows games that work well in wine. Just the gamer inside me wants to do that.

ofc native ports are better. but i use all i can to enrich my gaming.

i personally have nothing agains winelib ports if they do work. and in my case, LIMBO works just perfectly with zero issues.

I am not against the WINE project - I was using WINE to play an older game right before I came here to post this. Now, I am personally against purchasing modern Windows games to play them on Linux, but that is a subject for another thread.

The main thing I am worried about is that this can soil the Bundle's future potential on Linux. It is quite clear from Ryan Gordon's comments that he has a large vested interest in the Bundle as he feels it is the steeping stone we need to get the Linux games industry to finally be fully recognized - an actually vibrant native community where we are not always treated like second class citizens. We have come a long way towards this in the past few years, and I want this growth to continue.

This is a threat to that - it destroys the incentive to build that bright future just for short-term convenience through the use of a hack. It is like the snake-oil sold by Transgaming all over again. A relevant quote from the time of Loki's closure:

The arrival of TransGaming to me is the clearest indication that Loki failed to jump-start a Linux gaming industry as we'd hoped, because TransGaming has nothing to do with Linux games. Their message to game developers is: "Use DirectX and develop for Windows. We'll help you sell your Windows products to Linux users." TransGaming's strategy is the same one Corel used in its Linux applications business. In the end I don't think they'll be any more successful than Corel was.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020202221402/http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/01/24/2118235

Humble Bundle could be seen as the new Loki, what could jump start Linux game development. I do not want to soil that opportunity just because someone did not pay attention when selecting their middle-ware.

Firstly, it's important to note that Limbo runs via CrossOver rather than normal Wine.

I spoke briefly with the Humble Bundle guys about this. They say that they're treating Codeweavers as they would any other porter, and are working with them to fix and resolve issues as they would with any of the other bundle titles.

To add a little proper reasoning to this;

The LIMBO Linux build was created by CodeWeavers who basically take a custom version of Wine and tune the game to make sure it runs flawlessly. This is our first experiment with CodeWeavers and we are watching carefully.
If there are any bugs with the game, I don't want people to think "oh well, it uses Wine" -- these ought to be sent to CodeWeavers who should do their best to fix them.

We typically help organize porting for the games in the bundle, and it's usually the toughest part! But we're rabid about trying to provide the best experience possible, and native ports usually do that.
But in the case of LIMBO, our porting friends said there was some audio middleware that's not easily supported on Linux, we decided to see if we could experiment with another solution that could provide a rock-solid Linux gaming experience. CodeWeavers took it on—they do highly customized Linux wrappers to optimize specific pieces of software—and the prototypes worked incredibly well. They spent a lot of time tweaking and optimizing, and it passed their QA and our QA (and seemed to perform more consistently than even some of the native ports we've seen).
But we get that software is hard, and so we'll try to keep an eye out for any showstoppers. Hit up [email protected] with any issues and we'll make sure CodeWeavers hears about any LIMBO bugs that need fixing.

So if you any of you do get issues, email them, make your thoughts known there, the petition will do nothing as it always does IMO.

It wouldn't be a bad idea to make sure that concerns and problems also make their way to the Humble Bundle support system so that issues are visible to them as well IMO.

CodeWeavers abandoned Google Picasa for Linux:

http://www.webpronews.com/google-codeweavers-pair-on-picasa-port-2006-02

We launched a [URL='http://www.winehq.org/']WINE[/URL]-based version of Picasa for Linux in 2006 as a Google Labs project. As we continue to enhance [URL='http://googlephotos.blogspot.com/2011/12/picasa-39-now-with-google-sharing-and.html']Picasa[/URL], it has become difficult to maintain parity on the Linux version. So today, we’re deprecating Picasa for Linux and will not be maintaining it moving forward. Users who have downloaded and installed older versions of Picasa for Linux can continue to use them, though we won’t be making any further updates.

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/spring-cleaning-in-spring.html

It's not CodeWeavers discontinuing Picasa for Linux, it's Google.

"Other corporate sponsors include [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google']Google[/URL], which hired CodeWeavers to fix Wine so [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa']Picasa[/URL] ran well enough to be ported directly to Linux using the same binary as on Windows; Google later paid for improvements to Wine's support for [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop']Adobe Photoshop CS2[/URL]. Wine is also a regular beneficiary of Google's [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code']Summer of Code[/URL]program.[URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#cite_note-21'][COLOR=#0b0080][[/URL]"[/COLOR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#cite_note-22

CodeWeavers ported [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa']Picasa[/URL] to Linux.

Yep, because Google hired them to do so. It was CodeWeavers acting on Google's behalf, not something they did on their own. Similarly, when Google decided to discontinue Picasa, it was Google's decision and not CodeWeavers'.

If I hire a company to build a house for me and then decide to get it knocked down, that company doesn't have any responsibility for that decision.

It is fair that what is perhaps one of the best bundles is overshadowed by the poor inclusion of Limbo. I understand wanting to defend this action simply because "Humble Bundle" have brought so much to Linux before. I gave Humble Bundle less money this time, and I am saying I would like this not to happen in future. In fact the Cross-Platform is the reason I buy the games.

Just because there is support offered for the binary does not change the point - the same thing applied to Cedega and Transgaming, or Cider on Mac which has a rather dubious history. Now, because it is Codeweavers it is better than Transgaming as Codeweavers are also not code thieves and actually do support the development of WINE, but it does not change the point that we would prefer native binaries and always got them before.

Other developers had to fulfill that requirement, and some put a lot of work into it. That is just unfair.

Also, Robert, keep in mind you can choose how your money is distributed - so you can still support the developers and charities you want to support. Just make sure you do not support Limbo (or if you a really concerned humble tip) in your price calculations

By the way, I just had an orange surge last night - jumping from 39 signatures to 113. We will see if it will do any good or not.

"Linux Users Sign a Petition Requesting Only Native Games in Humble Bundles

[URL='https://www.humblebundle.com/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]Humble Indie Bundle 5[/URL] was launched recently with five popular and award winning indie games. All these games are supported natively on Linux except one, [URL='http://limbogame.org/']LIMBO[/URL].[/COLOR]

LIMBO doesn't run natively on Linux and instead uses a Wine/CodeWeavers wrapper. It has been a hot topic for debate in last couple of days and Humble Bundle organizers have [URL='http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/humble-team-and-game-developers-share.html'][COLOR=#0b61a4]commented on this[/URL].[/COLOR]
Now an [URL='http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hib-native/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]online petition[/URL] has been launched for allowing only native Linux games in Humble bundles. This is not an attack on Humble team by any means, but an effort to make a statement that quality standards should be maintained for Linux platform.[/COLOR]

[LEFT]The Petition:[/LEFT]

Linux users have been supporting the Humble Indie Bundle from the beginning and a relation of mutual trust has grown between the people behind the Bundle and the Linux community. Unfortunately, I feel this trust has been violated by the inclusion of a non-native Linux game in the latest Bundle.
This is not merely a complaint about one game included in one Bundle, in this case Limbo. It sets a horrible precedent for the future, encouraging developers to merely put out unoptimized Windows binaries of their games running through a WINE or similar layer merely to con Linux users out of their money. We can not allow this to happen, not to the Humble Indie Bundle.
With all of this said, we do not want to boycott the Bundle as many of the developers involved are still very much deserving of our money, as are many of the charities, and even the Bundle guys themselves are still making an effort. But we can not let this go without at least getting our point across.
So we implore:
1. Linux users to sign this petition. Guarantee that the integrity of the Bundle remains and that you get a fair deal for your money.
2. Mac users to sign this petition. The threat of non-native binaries applies to you just as much as to Linux users.
3. Windows users to sign this petition. Ports often lead to optimizations and fixes, making your gaming experience better.
4. Other developers to sign this petition. After all of the effort some of you have put into your native porting, it is just as much a slap in the face to you.
Also remember that you have a choice as to how your money is distributed - if you feel you have not gotten a fair deal from Limbo, please make sure your money is divided as you feel is right.
This is not meant as an outright attack or a smear on the Bundle itself. It is a merely a reflection of our desire to see the high standards that the Bundles have previously adhered to continue. We are doing this because we care. Please accept this in the manner in which it is given.

Personally I believe that if a game runs well on Linux using Wine with proper optimizations and quality standards, there shouldn't be a problem. Wine is a fantastic platform to use Windows applications and games on Linux and there are many games that run better in Wine than Windows.

What do you think about this? Will LIMBO encourage other developers to release Windows binaries in Humble Bundles claiming that they run on Linux?"
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/linux-users-sign-petition-requesting.html

Hamish already posted about that.

Quite interesting that Psychonauts in the bundle is an honest-to-god port, where as the previously released version for Mac was using using Cider (basically Wine for Mac):
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/208529394946412544

Personally I'm sitting on the fence, regarding the Wine issue. Not sure if I'm going to sign the petition or not.

It did come up during the last AMA the bundle guys did, so they are very much aware of the controversy. I just worry that Linux users comes off as being demanding or pushy.