Something that has bugged me for some time now is the use of the term PC to describe Windows, in the time we live in PC is such an insanely broad term why do developers still say PC?
Wikipedia describes the term PC as:
So if you take that into consideration if someone says "PC" should it not work on any general-purpose computer? This is why when I see "Available on PC" my heart fills with dread. It would be like saying "available for Playstation", well which one?
We have Windows, Mac OS X and Linux, and let's face it Ubuntu Linux mainly even though people of other distro's don't like to admit it and will probably jump down my throat for even stating it, but Ubuntu is the single most popular distro around, it is the only distro Steam officially supports for a reason. That's a whole 'nother argument altogether though so try not to focus on that too much.
These are the three main desktop operating systems yet a lot of developers are still keen to say things like "Available for PC & Mac". Every time this comes up I think to myself "what PC" or "what Mac version?". It can be quite bad for Mac too, Mac describes all of Apple's Mac computers so it requires you to dig further, going back again to the "available on Playstation" thing. Well which version of Mac?
Now when they say "Available for PC, Mac & Linux" that is moving further away into insanity, is a Mac not a personal computer? Is Linux on your desktop PC somehow not a PC either? Pretty sure my Nexus 4 phone is PC.
I ask you the community, how can we get developers to start at least saying "Windows, Mac & Linux", the term PC has stood for too long, it's time to get it retired. It's not a correct way to list platforms and a lot of us already know it. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Wikipedia describes the term PC as:
QuoteA personal computer (PC) is a general-purpose computer.
So if you take that into consideration if someone says "PC" should it not work on any general-purpose computer? This is why when I see "Available on PC" my heart fills with dread. It would be like saying "available for Playstation", well which one?
We have Windows, Mac OS X and Linux, and let's face it Ubuntu Linux mainly even though people of other distro's don't like to admit it and will probably jump down my throat for even stating it, but Ubuntu is the single most popular distro around, it is the only distro Steam officially supports for a reason. That's a whole 'nother argument altogether though so try not to focus on that too much.
These are the three main desktop operating systems yet a lot of developers are still keen to say things like "Available for PC & Mac". Every time this comes up I think to myself "what PC" or "what Mac version?". It can be quite bad for Mac too, Mac describes all of Apple's Mac computers so it requires you to dig further, going back again to the "available on Playstation" thing. Well which version of Mac?
Now when they say "Available for PC, Mac & Linux" that is moving further away into insanity, is a Mac not a personal computer? Is Linux on your desktop PC somehow not a PC either? Pretty sure my Nexus 4 phone is PC.
I ask you the community, how can we get developers to start at least saying "Windows, Mac & Linux", the term PC has stood for too long, it's time to get it retired. It's not a correct way to list platforms and a lot of us already know it. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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i think a better comparison would be "available on console"
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I upped my pledge for Road Redemption specifically because of this. Their platform listing said "PC (Windows/Mac/Linux)". It's actually a pretty big factor in how much I'll pledge on kickstarter, because I'm adamant that I won't pledge to games that use "PC" to mean "Windows". Road Redemption got quite a bit extra from me, because they actually managed to insult people who _do_ use "PC" to mean "Windows" by blatantly using "PC" in the correct way. The only thing I'm iffy on there is that "Mac" is technically not an OS (in much the same way that "PC" is not an OS), but meh. I was still happy.
So I guess I'm voting for correct terminology with my wallet using kickstarter. I'm not creative enough to think of a better way to do it.
So I guess I'm voting for correct terminology with my wallet using kickstarter. I'm not creative enough to think of a better way to do it.
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Wikipedia isn't always the best source there is a historical reason for the Mac/PC distinction that doesn't apply any more. Originally PC referred quite literally to the IBM PC*. Then you got PC clones compatible with the IBM one. Eventually PC came to mean the IBM PC + compatible machines from competitors(and later successors by IBM as well), in that light the Macs of the day most assuredly were not PCs since they didn't use the X86 architecture and therefore couldn't run PC code natively. However using this definition both Linux and the Mac OSX of today are PC operating systems.
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Spoiler, click me
I have no idea if the broader, more literal definition may have been in use prior to the IBM PC, but that usage is way to broad too be taken seriously when talking about platform support
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I know all about that, but like you said it doesn't apply any more and hasn't for a long long time.
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I know all about that, but like you said it doesn't apply any more and hasn't for a long long time.
Either way it is a too broad term really to used for marketing platform support. If developers start using PC to mean Windows, Mac OSX and Linux then the BSD folks may start complaining about that since those OSes support X86 as well. No reasons really not to be more specific, if you support Windows, Xbox 360 and PS3 then say that. If you support Windows, Mac OSX and Linux then say that.
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The word PC has been around forever.
Also taken from Wikipedia
Also taken from Wikipedia
Alongside "[microcomputer](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcomputer)" and "[home computer](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_computer)", the term "[personal computer](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_computer)" was already in use before 1981. It was used as early as 1972 to characterize [Xerox PARC](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_PARC)'s [Alto](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto). However, because of the success of the IBM Personal Computer, the term PC came to mean more specifically a microcomputer compatible with IBM's PC products
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That pisses me off too. But you'll find it's the more ignorant developers, the ones in Microsoft's pocket that are doing it.
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One word: Apple.To be fair, those apple ads don't actually mention Windows. They could be refering to all PC operating systems. Even though we know those things don't apply to Linux.
"Hi I'm a mac," "and I'm a PC."
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I agree that PC is too generic and not inclusive by nature but this has been going on since the 80s (apple, IBM compats, amigas) were all called PC's. Just like IOS and android both have "Mobile apps" but aren't compatible. I think we're stuck with the terms.
"We have Windows, Mac OS X and Linux, and let's face it Ubuntu Linux..."
Sigh... "Windows" isn't a singular operating system, not all of them are supported and those that are can be vastly different in capabilities.
It's a pretty moot point how popular Ubuntu is or isn't. Steam OS is going to decide the future of Linux gaming.
"We have Windows, Mac OS X and Linux, and let's face it Ubuntu Linux..."
Sigh... "Windows" isn't a singular operating system, not all of them are supported and those that are can be vastly different in capabilities.
It's a pretty moot point how popular Ubuntu is or isn't. Steam OS is going to decide the future of Linux gaming.
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Maybe we're getting to the point where soon the key distinction can be between "PC" and "mobile" hardware platforms -- devs will automatically pick a solid multi-OS engine, but still need to decide whether to focus effort on UI tailoring for one or both platforms (PC: keyboard+mouse or game-controller/big or VR display for PC, Mobile: touchscreen/small display)
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We have Windows, Mac OS X and Linux, and let's face it Ubuntu Linux mainly even though people of other distro's don't like to admit it and will probably jump down my throat for even stating it, but Ubuntu is the single most popular distro around, it is the only distro Steam officially supports for a reason. That's a whole 'nother argument altogether though so try not to focus on that too much.
I am sorry, but if you did not want people to jump down your throat why did you even bring it up? There is stating an on topic opinion in an editorial and then there is flame bait. I could go into a huge rant about the difference between a plurality and an actual majority, and how Ubuntu most definitely does not have an absolute majority and games the system through it's plurality status, but I will pay enough deference to the main point of the article to just leave this here.
To be fair, those apple ads don't actually mention Windows. They could be referring to all PC operating systems. Even though we know those things don't apply to Linux.
The distinction between Apple and non-Apple hardware became a moot point when they adopted the x86 architecture though - which they had already done by the time those advertisements came out.
Maybe we're getting to the point where soon the key distinction can be between "PC" and "mobile" hardware platforms
Problem is those terms do not work that well either - is a laptop not a "mobile" hardware platform? And a smart phone is often the most "personal" piece of computing people regularly use. In the end, this whole names debate is kind of a stupid exercise, which is only worth arguing about because it does still have an effect on consumers, for some stupid reason.
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Metallinatus Nov 16, 2013
Well, they don't need to support every single PC OS every time they say "PC", they can even say "PC" and still only support Windows anyway....I know all about that, but like you said it doesn't apply any more and hasn't for a long long time.
Either way it is a too broad term really to used for marketing platform support. If developers start using PC to mean Windows, Mac OSX and Linux then the BSD folks may start complaining about that since those OSes support X86 as well.
What is wrong is they say things like "for PC and Linux" when Linux actually is a PC OS too.... this thing is so messed up that every time someone say that.... he is actually saying that an specific Operational System is a Hardware .-.
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From my perspective, producers should use terms like "Game for Windows, Linux or Mac OS X" because terms like game for Linux: x86, PPC, Sparc, Alpha, ARM etc., Windows x86, Mac OS X PPC or x86 are for the people who have a particular knowledge about operating systems and computers. Personally, I play in Linux games on Mac computers what can be a bit confusing for producers.
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Like you said Ubuntu is the "single" most popular distro but really Ubuntu is just a little fish in the pound
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One word: Apple.Nah, that was most defiantly not the start of it. they just went with it because it was already part of the common lexicon and probably to avoid direct backlash from Microsoft from outright saying Windows.
"Hi I'm a mac," "and I'm a PC."
Mac users have much of the same problem with everyone talking about MAC, well every computer has a Media Access Controller. It's not a Linux vs GNU/Linux thing either, thoguh thats an equally stupid argument.
Is it really that hard to just put up the logos of what is officially supported? There are Logos for the various versions of Windows, Linux and MacOS that could be used. I.E. most Linux games only officially suport Ubuntu 12.04 LTS. Will the game work on other distros? Sure will, but I wouldn't expect the devs to test on 4 different releases of 15 different distros, it's just not cost effective and would drive them away from making Linux compatible games.
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Like you said Ubuntu is the "single" most popular distro but really Ubuntu is just a little fish in the poundThe point is that if someone is playing games on Linux that the odds are 10/1 that they are using Ubuntu or some direct derivative like Mint or Studio.
Linux being such a small player can't make the demand that all Linux games get tested on Arch, Fedora, Manjaro, Debian, Gentoo, Slackware etc. Doing so just makes Linux gaming a a whole a target that just isn't worth the devs time to test against and as such no game will ever be ported.
By just saying "just support Ubuntu LTS releases, we'll figure out the rest" the devs can have a nice fat target to focus on whatever small fixes are necessary for other distros and releases can be hammered out by the users of other distros and those fixes can then be submitted back to the devs in the hopes they are added in a future update.
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What is wrong with the venerable Tux as a logo then?
And while I do not necessarily have a problem with a limited testing field, I think your 10/1 figure is way too optimistic in Ubuntu's favour. Especially when taking worldwide Linux usage into account.
And while I do not necessarily have a problem with a limited testing field, I think your 10/1 figure is way too optimistic in Ubuntu's favour. Especially when taking worldwide Linux usage into account.
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What is wrong with the venerable Tux as a logo then?The while "What version/what one" problem. You need to have a set floor, so say an Ubuntu logo with 12.04 over it would be far more descriptive just as a game requiring Windows Vista would do far better to have the Vista Logo over the generic "PC".
And while I do not necessarily have a problem with a limited testing field, I think your 10/1 figure is way too optimistic in Ubuntu's favour. Especially when taking worldwide Linux usage into account.
And it won't be too much longer before the AAA games at least start requiring 64-bit OSs as they will finally hit a point where they need more then 4Gb of ram to run properly.
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Next year we should see 64bit start to get a big push thanks to the new two big consoles both having a fair amount of RAM. So you will see newer games coming out next year requiring more ram - making people go 64bit. Hell the newest call of duty for Windows requires 6GB minimum RAM.
I welcome the day when 64bit really is the norm.
I welcome the day when 64bit really is the norm.
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