Another day another developer speaking about OpenGL. This time around it's Aras Pranckevičius a developer of Unity.
He has a major point to make early on too:
I completely agree, as developers are starting to use OpenGL more and more as they look to support the growing Mac & Linux user-base that's thirsty for games.
I can't say I agree with many points he makes either especially when he states things like this:
I've never met a Windows gamer who doesn't update their graphics drivers, have you? Seems strange that someone who games on Windows wouldn't update the one thing that could really change their experience. Especially since on Windows things like the Nvidia control panel actually tells you each time there's a new update.
Not many people would be buying an actual graphics card not use Windows in-built drivers now would they?
Apparently that is now a power user thing to do which shocks me, just how little do you have to do to be a "power user" nowadays? I think this is a problem due to consoles, iphones & Androids since you have very little interaction other than updating apps (which you can make automatic).
Another thing about his post does shock me though:
You would think that someone who works on a game creation tool that supports building for Linux would look into it a bit more.
It seems Mantle and DirectX 12 have caused a massive stir amongst developers who have used OpenGL that's for sure. I wonder how many more developers will come out of their bat caves and speak up about OpenGL.
It is all well and good making blog posts on it, but if all people do is blog about it and not try and help OpenGL move forward in some way then we will just see a pattern of developers constantly speaking ill of it.
I'm not going to pretend that I have the faintest idea what all these blogs are talking about in regards to the innards of OpenGL. As a gamer I just want the best experience and more people helping out in developing OpenGL's API is always a good thing.
See the full post on it here from Aras. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
He has a major point to make early on too:
QuoteIf people complain, that at least means they do care!
I completely agree, as developers are starting to use OpenGL more and more as they look to support the growing Mac & Linux user-base that's thirsty for games.
I can't say I agree with many points he makes either especially when he states things like this:
QuoteOn Windows, out of the box, you do not get an OpenGL driver (but you do get a D3D one for most GPUs). And no, actual people out there do not update their drivers. Ever.
I've never met a Windows gamer who doesn't update their graphics drivers, have you? Seems strange that someone who games on Windows wouldn't update the one thing that could really change their experience. Especially since on Windows things like the Nvidia control panel actually tells you each time there's a new update.
Not many people would be buying an actual graphics card not use Windows in-built drivers now would they?
Apparently that is now a power user thing to do which shocks me, just how little do you have to do to be a "power user" nowadays? I think this is a problem due to consoles, iphones & Androids since you have very little interaction other than updating apps (which you can make automatic).
Another thing about his post does shock me though:
QuoteI’ve no idea about Linux. I know there are binary drivers for NV/AMD, and open source for Intel – but no idea about whether Linux people update drivers, or whether they come with OS etc.
You would think that someone who works on a game creation tool that supports building for Linux would look into it a bit more.
It seems Mantle and DirectX 12 have caused a massive stir amongst developers who have used OpenGL that's for sure. I wonder how many more developers will come out of their bat caves and speak up about OpenGL.
It is all well and good making blog posts on it, but if all people do is blog about it and not try and help OpenGL move forward in some way then we will just see a pattern of developers constantly speaking ill of it.
I'm not going to pretend that I have the faintest idea what all these blogs are talking about in regards to the innards of OpenGL. As a gamer I just want the best experience and more people helping out in developing OpenGL's API is always a good thing.
See the full post on it here from Aras. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Judging by the number of support posts in PC Game forums that contain the words "update your drivers" it's clear to me that not everyone does. I personsonally don't. It takes ages and it often breaks (NVidia installer just hangs). I do it only when a specific game does not work.
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This guy a f*cking idiot. "And no, actual people out there do not update their drivers. Ever." Oh yes we bloody do. Frequently. I agree Liam, for someone who is supposed to be programming games for Linux this guy is sadly lacking in even the most rudimentary knowledge of PCs and users.
If you've programmed Java I imagine (not being a programmer) that you've developed some basic knowledge of programming concepts, universals that would make learning another language, say C, easier, but it would still be learning a new language. Porting your coding knowledge from Windows to Linux is equally going to be a shock to the system. This blog post (by Pranckevičius) equates to nothing more than a Java programmer's confusion trying to code in C for the first time. When you get over you shock you might find C is infinitely better...
If the guy has nothing to offer in making OpenGL better and contributing to the code then he can stick his opinion where the sun doesn't doesn't shine.
If you've programmed Java I imagine (not being a programmer) that you've developed some basic knowledge of programming concepts, universals that would make learning another language, say C, easier, but it would still be learning a new language. Porting your coding knowledge from Windows to Linux is equally going to be a shock to the system. This blog post (by Pranckevičius) equates to nothing more than a Java programmer's confusion trying to code in C for the first time. When you get over you shock you might find C is infinitely better...
If the guy has nothing to offer in making OpenGL better and contributing to the code then he can stick his opinion where the sun doesn't doesn't shine.
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QuoteIt is all well and good making blog posts on it, but if all people do is blog about it and not try and help OpenGL move forward in some way then we will just see a pattern of developers constantly speaking ill of it.
Immediate discussion!
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Quoting: NotToGoingUJustToPostI personsonally don't. It takes ages and it often breaks (NVidia installer just hangs). I do it only when a specific game does not work.I use manjaro linux and my drivers are updated with system update.It's always work flawlessly.
http://manjaro.org/
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QuoteI've never met a Windows gamer who doesn't update their graphics drivers, have you?Yes, a lot. You know I support players of Planetary Annihilation for about a year and here is my personal sub-forum on Steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/233250/discussions/2/
I suppose there was few thousands of topics related to old drivers and possible more. Even if game will print large text with "UPDATE YOUR DRIVERS" many people wouldn't do that anyway or will do that wrong.
QuoteSeems strange that someone who games on Windows wouldn't update the one thing that could really change their experience. Especially since on Windows things like the Nvidia control panel actually tells you each time there's a new update.There is multiple problems with way you thinking. Unity3D it's middleware, the engine which target for extremely large audience so they have to be sure their engine working on any crappy laptop.
Unfortunately there is large list of problems with driver updates you don't know about:
- Some users just unable to update their drivers because they don't have admin account on Windows. It's can be work laptop within company workgroup for example.
- AMD mobility drivers fail to install 80% of times.
I even wrote multi-page how-to about updating this peace of crap:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/233250/discussions/2/558749190925676183/
Some laptops just not supported by official drivers!
- Intel allow vendors to deny usage of automatic EXE installer with "not validated for this computer" crap. Installing drivers from ZIP isn't f*ckig easy:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/233250/discussions/2/558749190911446231/
Even with detailed instruction many players might spend hour on update it and I doubt if someone's grandpa will able to do anything like that if he need to install some casual game.
- Windows 8 ship built-in drivers for AMD legacy GPUs and some Intel iGPUs that DO NOT HAVE OPENGL SUPPORT. For AMD you can't even replace them with one from official website, manual installation, again:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/233250/discussions/2/648817378357910399/
- On some rare laptops (many of them with Nvidia 3XXM) you just can't update drivers due to changed IDs. You have to patch BIOS to make update possible.
- This is just portion of issues...
And outdated drivers just don't work. They expose GL, but will crash all the time because there isn't really tested support around.
QuoteNot many people would be buying an actual graphics card not use Windows in-built drivers now would they?Unfortunately there is a lot of people who aren't as tech savvy as you. It's not OpenGL fault, but GPU vendor fault (especially AMD), but developers can't just reject this.
When it's come to games like PA where people paid their money for they'll going to complain and ask for help. If this was F2P title player who met such problem will just go and play another game.
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Liam, 26% of the windows systems are still windows XP, so no, people don't update their drivers, for the masses out there windows auto-update and a virus scanner is as far as they get, so I think he is right.
As for the rest of his comments, his lack of insight says enough I guess
As for the rest of his comments, his lack of insight says enough I guess
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Quoting: XilLiam, 26% of the windows systems are still windows XP, so no, people don't update their drivers, for the masses out there windows auto-update and a virus scanner is as far as they get, so I think he is right.
As for the rest of his comments, his lack of insight says enough I guess
but we are talking about gamers.. probably 10 gamers in world use windows xp now a days.
facebook gamers dont count
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Quoting: XpanderQuoting: XilLiam, 26% of the windows systems are still windows XP, so no, people don't update their drivers, for the masses out there windows auto-update and a virus scanner is as far as they get, so I think he is right.but we are talking about gamers.. probably 10 gamers in world use windows xp now a days.
As for the rest of his comments, his lack of insight says enough I guess
facebook gamers dont count
Pretty much what I came here to say. I stand by my words, gamers generally know how to update drivers and most likely do.
As for Windows XP, you can update drivers on that, so just being on Windows XP means nothing other than not forking out for a new Windows license.
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Quoting: Xpanderfacebook gamers dont countFacebook gamers it's big portion of Unity3D end-users.
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No, I've never updated my drivers on the windows. There is actually statistics about it that show that not many people update GPU drivers on Windows.
I'm updating them whole the time on the Linux since I have AMDs GPU and I'm desperate for performance improvements.
I'm updating them whole the time on the Linux since I have AMDs GPU and I'm desperate for performance improvements.
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