Another day another developer speaking about OpenGL. This time around it's Aras Pranckevičius a developer of Unity.
He has a major point to make early on too:
I completely agree, as developers are starting to use OpenGL more and more as they look to support the growing Mac & Linux user-base that's thirsty for games.
I can't say I agree with many points he makes either especially when he states things like this:
I've never met a Windows gamer who doesn't update their graphics drivers, have you? Seems strange that someone who games on Windows wouldn't update the one thing that could really change their experience. Especially since on Windows things like the Nvidia control panel actually tells you each time there's a new update.
Not many people would be buying an actual graphics card not use Windows in-built drivers now would they?
Apparently that is now a power user thing to do which shocks me, just how little do you have to do to be a "power user" nowadays? I think this is a problem due to consoles, iphones & Androids since you have very little interaction other than updating apps (which you can make automatic).
Another thing about his post does shock me though:
You would think that someone who works on a game creation tool that supports building for Linux would look into it a bit more.
It seems Mantle and DirectX 12 have caused a massive stir amongst developers who have used OpenGL that's for sure. I wonder how many more developers will come out of their bat caves and speak up about OpenGL.
It is all well and good making blog posts on it, but if all people do is blog about it and not try and help OpenGL move forward in some way then we will just see a pattern of developers constantly speaking ill of it.
I'm not going to pretend that I have the faintest idea what all these blogs are talking about in regards to the innards of OpenGL. As a gamer I just want the best experience and more people helping out in developing OpenGL's API is always a good thing.
See the full post on it here from Aras. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
He has a major point to make early on too:
QuoteIf people complain, that at least means they do care!
I completely agree, as developers are starting to use OpenGL more and more as they look to support the growing Mac & Linux user-base that's thirsty for games.
I can't say I agree with many points he makes either especially when he states things like this:
QuoteOn Windows, out of the box, you do not get an OpenGL driver (but you do get a D3D one for most GPUs). And no, actual people out there do not update their drivers. Ever.
I've never met a Windows gamer who doesn't update their graphics drivers, have you? Seems strange that someone who games on Windows wouldn't update the one thing that could really change their experience. Especially since on Windows things like the Nvidia control panel actually tells you each time there's a new update.
Not many people would be buying an actual graphics card not use Windows in-built drivers now would they?
Apparently that is now a power user thing to do which shocks me, just how little do you have to do to be a "power user" nowadays? I think this is a problem due to consoles, iphones & Androids since you have very little interaction other than updating apps (which you can make automatic).
Another thing about his post does shock me though:
QuoteI’ve no idea about Linux. I know there are binary drivers for NV/AMD, and open source for Intel – but no idea about whether Linux people update drivers, or whether they come with OS etc.
You would think that someone who works on a game creation tool that supports building for Linux would look into it a bit more.
It seems Mantle and DirectX 12 have caused a massive stir amongst developers who have used OpenGL that's for sure. I wonder how many more developers will come out of their bat caves and speak up about OpenGL.
It is all well and good making blog posts on it, but if all people do is blog about it and not try and help OpenGL move forward in some way then we will just see a pattern of developers constantly speaking ill of it.
I'm not going to pretend that I have the faintest idea what all these blogs are talking about in regards to the innards of OpenGL. As a gamer I just want the best experience and more people helping out in developing OpenGL's API is always a good thing.
See the full post on it here from Aras. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
0 Likes
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
The comments on this article are closed.
As other people already pointed out, not everyone is as tech savvy as the average or hardcore gamer might be. I have worked in hardware retail and have seen normal customers first hand, not updating drivers or security sensitive software on a regular basis.
Furthermore, what might be relatively easy to do on a desktop PC might turn into a nightmare on notebooks as I have experienced first hand on my own HP notebook from 2011 with an Intel HD 3000 + AMD 6770M which only runs relatively stable and smooth on modded drivers (thanks Leshcat!) with a modded BIOS (thanks Donovan!; to enable "dynamic mode") on Windows 8.1 (even worse performance and stability-wise on Windows 7). I have lost count how many houres I have wasted trying out broken drivers for this piece of bad engineering!
In "fixed mode" which is set by default in the non-modded BIOS, some 3D-Games (Battlefield 3 and 4 are the most prominent) just crash with awkward DirectX-Errors after several minutes of gameplay. Our typical customer would have waved the flag of surrender at the point he found out that he couldn't update his drivers with newer official ones from their website. The official AMD mobility drivers just recently (September 2013) became installable for this platform and still do not provide the same smoothness as the modded one's. Also the mentioned dx errors will just go away when set to dynamic mode.
But back on track: I hope Khronos adopts a Mantle-like approach just as Microsoft did. That would surely ease the burden of supporting different back-ends and thus porting to different platforms for ISVs and easing the driver work for the IHVs. Just to name a few advantages. As NVIDIA and INTEL are already on board for D3D12, I see less and less of a political issue here to work together with AMD on Khronos on this as well. Just name it OpenGL 5 or whatever to let them keep their face.
Furthermore, what might be relatively easy to do on a desktop PC might turn into a nightmare on notebooks as I have experienced first hand on my own HP notebook from 2011 with an Intel HD 3000 + AMD 6770M which only runs relatively stable and smooth on modded drivers (thanks Leshcat!) with a modded BIOS (thanks Donovan!; to enable "dynamic mode") on Windows 8.1 (even worse performance and stability-wise on Windows 7). I have lost count how many houres I have wasted trying out broken drivers for this piece of bad engineering!
In "fixed mode" which is set by default in the non-modded BIOS, some 3D-Games (Battlefield 3 and 4 are the most prominent) just crash with awkward DirectX-Errors after several minutes of gameplay. Our typical customer would have waved the flag of surrender at the point he found out that he couldn't update his drivers with newer official ones from their website. The official AMD mobility drivers just recently (September 2013) became installable for this platform and still do not provide the same smoothness as the modded one's. Also the mentioned dx errors will just go away when set to dynamic mode.
But back on track: I hope Khronos adopts a Mantle-like approach just as Microsoft did. That would surely ease the burden of supporting different back-ends and thus porting to different platforms for ISVs and easing the driver work for the IHVs. Just to name a few advantages. As NVIDIA and INTEL are already on board for D3D12, I see less and less of a political issue here to work together with AMD on Khronos on this as well. Just name it OpenGL 5 or whatever to let them keep their face.
0 Likes
Quoting: sgtGarciaSometimes I think that hybrid graphics brought more problems than resolved :/true, having constant issues with bumblebee on linux, on windows optimus works fine though, but on linux it's a hell to get working
Quoting: SaniTBut seriously, post lots of pro-OpenGL articles now, to even out the argument, from actual long-time Linux (if not Linux-ONLY) OpenGL developers.like this one?
http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/01/Why-you-should-use-OpenGL-and-not-DirectX
0 Likes
QuoteI've never met a Windows gamer who doesn't update their graphics drivers, have you?Yes, many, all casual gamers though.
0 Likes
This is probably going to be just like Wayland vs Mir.
Once everyone got upset and it became famous/infamous people started caring because they got upset - then development speed up because suddenly everyone cared so they started contributing.
--
I mean, who would want to spend their time on a boring project like OpenSSL
/sarcasm /point-proven
Once everyone got upset and it became famous/infamous people started caring because they got upset - then development speed up because suddenly everyone cared so they started contributing.
--
I mean, who would want to spend their time on a boring project like OpenSSL
/sarcasm /point-proven
0 Likes
So Windows is shipping with graphic drivers that have OpenGL support stripped out? MS has always been very smart when it comes to protecting their interests. The current anti-OpenGL campaign seems to be in the very same line. Developers complaining that it's OpenGL's fault that MS strips OpenGL support out from their graphic drivers, how absurd that is?
0 Likes
I actually find it the opposite when it comes to video drivers. I think Linux users are less likely to upgrade due to stability reasons. It's more likely to update it with their distro. On Mac video driver updates are mandated by Apple, so Mac users don't have a choice when they upgrade it or not.
0 Likes
Quoting: berarmaSo Windows is shipping with graphic drivers that have OpenGL support stripped out? MS has always been very smart when it comes to protecting their interests.Correct. AMD drivers and some Intel drivers bundled with Windows lack OpenGL support, but main problem it's fact that player can't easily replace update AMD and Intel drivers and this have nothing to do with MS.
Quoting: berarmaThe current anti-OpenGL campaign seems to be in the very same line. Developers complaining that it's OpenGL's fault that MS strips OpenGL support out from their graphic drivers, how absurd that is?If you try to look around you'll notice that MS don't give a shit about PC games and there is no "anti-OpenGL campaign".
Game developers just trying to sent some signal to everyone include AMD and Intel to make them fix their crappy drivers. And yeah if MS distribute crippled AMD legacy drivers this mean it's AMD allowed them to do so.
0 Likes
Is it just me or does this guy seem totally, completely out of touch with the non linux world? It seems he's spouting off about something he has zero-point-zero knowledge about.
<paraphrase> "windows users don't update their drivers" WTF planet do you live on? If you're any type of gamer you check, EAGERLY, regularly.
This is a useless article, you interviewed a coffee enthusiast who decided to badmouth espresso when he's never actually had one. Okay - that may be a bad analogy, but seriously, he's out of touch.
<paraphrase> "windows users don't update their drivers" WTF planet do you live on? If you're any type of gamer you check, EAGERLY, regularly.
This is a useless article, you interviewed a coffee enthusiast who decided to badmouth espresso when he's never actually had one. Okay - that may be a bad analogy, but seriously, he's out of touch.
0 Likes
Quoting: mikeyzmanIs it just me or does this guy seem totally, completely out of touch with the non linux world? It seems he's spouting off about something he has zero-point-zero knowledge about.Of course, this guy knows nothing. He's a lead on unity 3D rendering team, with dozens of articles, talks and conferences, with real world data about drivers installation base, but his opinion has no value, because your experience and perhaps the experience of your close circle is different. Great argument.
Guess what? The world is really big, it doesn't end at the tip of your nose.
0 Likes
Quoting: themainlinerThis guy a f*cking idiot. "And no, actual people out there do not update their drivers. Ever." Oh yes we bloody do. Frequently. I agree Liam, for someone who is supposed to be programming games for Linux this guy is sadly lacking in even the most rudimentary knowledge of PCs and users.
If the guy has nothing to offer in making OpenGL better and contributing to the code then he can stick his opinion where the sun doesn't doesn't shine.
You should revisit your opinion, create an informed one or going trolling somewhere else.
This guy knows more about OpenGL than you will know in your whole life. This guy is a well respected graphics programmer which, more over, is defending opengl, just saying it has its flaws, not necessarily related to opengl itself but how drivers are distributed. This guy doesn't program games, but programs a widely used technology to create them. And probably, this guy knows way better than you, how many users (no mega fancy gamers like you) have their drivers up to date.
At the end, this regular users may want to play games too.
Just for your information, this guy, is the one that has released the glsl optimizer that others praise as a wonderful tool. So, a bit of respect for people that knows what they're talking about. Sorry but can't say the same about your opinion.
1 Likes, Who?
Patreon
PayPal
See more from me