Ars Technica Benchmarks Show Windows 10 Beating SteamOS Performance

I guess if I'm not with you, I'm against you?

No, but you do have see who is using a group you belong to, you identify with, to justify doing harm. I do not want to stand idly by while someone who purports to speak for me does harm.

That's why I speak out against Richard Dawkins, despite identifying as an atheist. That's why I speak out against fefe, despite him being in similar computer-ish circles than me. That's why I take a hard stand against the crocodiles, despite being one of those geeks who enjoys the odd game or two.

I just have little patience left for people who so blatently throw in arguments that have been debunked so. many. times. That I have debated so. many. times. This whole blunderbuss boiled over a year ago, and by now, I nearly count people who still unreflectingly parrot the "collusion!" line as lost causes.

And yes, what is "doing harm" is subjective. I do have ideologies and biases -- and I'm quite open about them. And there are certainly issues that are important enough for me that I can't "agree to disagree".

My little digression about certain political issues here in Germany was quite overdrawn, yes. It's a thing that's been on my mind a lot lately, considering I live in the middle of it. There is a significant overlap between the crocs and several factions of neo-reactionaries and identitarians; you just have to look at what Breitbart otherwise publishes, for example.

I don't even mean to insult or implicate Nyamiou; I don't know the person enough to judge one way or another. I wanted them to see from what corner they get their arguments from, their views on culture. And I may have gone a bit overboard there.

How about people focus on what's being said, rather than the author of the Ars piece eh.

Dr.McCoy, forgive me, crocodiles?

Is there anywhere a compilation of benchmark comparisons between Linux and Windows? I know I've seen some videos on youtube, but are the charts anywhere online? It would just be nice to compare, since from what I remember Shadow of Mordor has one of the largest discrepancies, while Witcher 2 has maybe 10% lower framerates on average (going by memory again).

IMHO the impact of those articles, albeit partly or fully true, is huge!

We all know: "There is no second chance to make a first impression".
And this is exactly what I'm afraid of when it comes to the Steam Machines.

While *we* know that there is a good chance Vulkan and other improvements
of the environment might eventually lead to a very good and competitive platform,
most of those articles (maybe intentionally) don't make that clear.

Even worse, it feels like they want to prove that Steam Machines with SteamOS are crap.
And they're doing a damn fine job at this.

I'm really puzzled about Valve's PR department when it comes to the SteamOS.
I'd say they're doing a terrible job. Am I missing anything?

Anyone know if the fact geekbench been compiled with clang 3.3(2013) would effect it with regards steamos using the 4xx kernel ? seem to remember reading some good gains in the last few versions of llvm/clang.

Of the Top500 supercomputers only 1 uses Windows and 488 use Linux only (entire Top100) http://www.top500.org/statistics/sublist/ . If the floating points calculations would decrease by 10% when using Linux the owners would loose millions to dozens of millions.

I ran the geekbench mark on my own sys, both win and lin,
Don't get how mine got a better score in linux than windows going on what Ars got with the steam machine. Granted I've got win7. Others have done the same with win10 and there linux install has still beat it.

So I there's something going wrong in the current SteamOS build as like you said, The top 500 would be losing a fair chunk I would have thought.

Scores are here
[url=Linux]http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4178169[/url]
[url=Windows]http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/4178315[/url]

This origin article is dumb. Steam Machines are competing against PS4 and XBONE, they're proven to generally run a higher FPS than those competitions - after all their competitiors cap at 30 FPS.

This origin article is dumb. Steam Machines are competing against PS4 and XBONE, they're proven to generally run a higher FPS than those competitions - after all their competitiors cap at 30 FPS.

Uhhh... Actually, most XBone and PS4 titles run at or get near to 60FPS @ 1080p. A few or even a lot don't, but no, the consoles are not capped at 30FPS.


Last edited by D34VA_ on 14 Nov 2015 at 2:40 am UTC

She's known for sleeping with game journalists for promotion of her products

No.

Anita Sarkeesian who is known for being a manipulative liar.

No.

She's known for sleeping with game journalists for promotion of her products

No.

Anita Sarkeesian who is known for being a manipulative liar.

No.

Yes and yes. That is why they are both on the crosshairs, of both male and female gamers.

Also Liam: the point is this: I do not think the numbers are realistic or that they really matter. They seem to have a rather big fps botch while my PC with similar stats (though obviously more cores, more memory and more raw power) but lesser graphics card has both dota and tf2 running at double the fps. Using the article as any form of conclusion is very bad and can have dire consequences to the linux gaming community as a whole. We should not be pushing companies to just 'do it better' or complain about how shitty our OS is, because that will just turn them away. We have made great strides and so have the developers that have tried. Performance will improve over time, as their skills get better and SteamOS gets more optimized.

I'm really puzzled about Valve's PR department when it comes to the SteamOS.
I'd say they're doing a terrible job. Am I missing anything?

True, the Valve marketing of SteamOS and Steam Machines is terrible, they are simply doing nothing and hoping for the best. Hopefully, Alienware is really marketing it, and they do believe in SteamOS :

View video on youtube.com

I didn't even read into the article, but if he's a target of gamergate you can pretty much stop taking him seriously right there. I said on the first page that it seemed fishy and now you got 5 pages with people thinking the same. And most of the arguments aren't even gamergate related at that.

I had been meaning to stay out of this, but since you seem to think everyone here shares your opinion, I feel I have to comment.
You want to dismiss the whole article because the author is being targeted by a harassment campaign? I'm more inclined to support anyone targeted by that idiocy. Either way, you should argue the facts, not the character of the author.

Now about the developer who has been hit hard by gamergate, that would be Zoe Quinn. She's known for sleeping with game journalists for promotion of her products or to change their narrative. Just read into the gamergate debacle and you can pretty much leave that to rest. The other integrity lacking person in this debacle would be Anita Sarkeesian who is known for being a manipulative liar.

That stuff about Zoe Quinn was basically made up by her boyfriend and he later redacted it. Even if it were true, it wouldn't justify the harassment and death threads against her.
I don't know what Anita Sarkeesian is supposed to be lying about. She talks about stuff she things is problematic in games. Lots of people do that about lots of media. Take it or leave it. You can discuss the academic merit of her work, but again, no need for death and rape threads or even calling her a liar.

Yes and yes.

This has been debunked over and over and over again. There were no articles for Zoe's games while she was together with Nathan. In fact, the only two articles that Nathan wrote was one for Kotaku, [before he was in a relationship with her](http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346) (and that wasn't even a review) and one for [Rock, Paper, Shotgun](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/08/admission-quest-valve-greenlights-50-more-games/), where the game is shortly mentioned. No full review, nothing while they were dating.

No one ever managed to produce any of the alleged review articles Zoe allegedly received by "sleeping around". This is and always has been a character assassination.

Likewise, no one ever managed to produce anything even close to a proof that Anita Sarkeesian is a "manipulative liar". On the flipside, you can't walk five meter into YouTube or [Twitter](https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=jewkeesian&src=typd) before you get clobbered by racist, sexist attacks against her.

And, as opposed to clowns from The Sarkeesian Effect "documentary", her videos are actually of high quality, and show skill in writing concise and to the point. I may not agree with every single point she makes, or I may not know about the one game or the other, but I was never disappointed in seeing one of her videos appear in my YouTube feed.

But, like I said, this has been debunked countless times. It is so. damn. tiring.

Either way, you should argue the facts, not the character of the author.

The fact is that benchmark is badly done, with a very old rig that no hardcore gamer who care about performance would have, with nonsense resolutions since SteamOS is dedicated to run on TVs and without giving much informations about the actual SteamOS version used or the methodology. I don't contest the fact that some game, especially AAA games have not as good performances as they have on Windows, I only contest those exaggerated results coming from an (intentionally) unprofessionally done benchmark, the wording and the conclusion obviously.


Last edited by Nyamiou on 14 Nov 2015 at 4:58 am UTC

It's pretty depressing to see the old Gamergate inaccuracies pop up here. Ms. Sarkeesian's videos don't say anything that isn't true about sexism in video games. The kind of people I've heard making these accusations remind me of (and, in one case has actually been) pimple-faced virgins living in their parents' basements, the kind of people who savaged the excellent Gone Home as "not even being a real game," because (apparently) it took the point of view of a young woman.

Y'know, members of the He-Man Woman Haters Club. Racist, sexist pimply-faced virgins, living in their parents' basements and spreading accusations thet have no basis in fact.

DrMcCoy said it better above, but I had to add my 2 cents' worth.

I'm really puzzled about Valve's PR department when it comes to the SteamOS.
I'd say they're doing a terrible job. Am I missing anything?

True, the Valve marketing of SteamOS and Steam Machines is terrible, they are simply doing nothing and hoping for the best. Hopefully, Alienware is really marketing it, and they do believe in SteamOS

I'll also add that I'm really disappointed in Valve's marketing, or complete lack thereof, of SteamOS. Over in /r/linux_gaming the meme going around is that "Valve is playing the long game, just like the launch of Steam itself, there's nothing to worry about guys!" The launch of Steam and SteamOS are two totally different situations, so I do wonder how well this strategy is going to work out. It really seems like Valve doesn't care if SteamOS totally flops because they're still rolling in dough either way.


Last edited by mulletdeath on 14 Nov 2015 at 6:04 am UTC

Either way, you should argue the facts, not the character of the author.

The fact is that benchmark is badly done, with a very old rig that no hardcore gamer who care about performance would have, with nonsense resolutions since SteamOS is dedicated to run on TVs and without giving much informations about the actual SteamOS version used or the methodology. I don't contest the fact that some game, especially AAA games have not as good performances as they have on Windows, I only contest those exaggerated results coming from an (intentionally) unprofessionally done benchmark, the wording and the conclusion obviously.

What difference does the hardware make as long as they use it on both sides? Also, older hardware tends to run better on Linux anyway. A Windows apologist might argue that the bias is in favour of Linux.

Me? I just shrug it off and say: Can't win 'em all.

Now about the developer who has been hit hard by gamergate, that would be Zoe Quinn. She's known for sleeping with game journalists for promotion of her products or to change their narrative. Just read into the gamergate debacle and you can pretty much leave that to rest. The other integrity lacking person in this debacle would be Anita Sarkeesian who is known for being a manipulative liar.

Also weighing in here, despite this crap being way off topic. I don't know who Zoe Quinn has sex with, and I don't care because it's none of my business, but this "promotion of her products" you speak of never happened.

First up, there is no "product". The game in question here is Depression Quest, a FREE game intended to raise awareness about depression. I have only ever seen one actual review of it and that was a video analysis by Campster. She had nothing to gain from sleeping with anyone for coverage, except I guess to raise more awareness about depression... in which case, yay - ?

That lie was started by a disgruntled ex, who has since admitted it.

Gamergate is nothing but a small hate group with a larger group of gullible shmucks that are easily manipulated into perpetuating their lies and propaganda. It's not a "movement" that is interested in or will ever accomplish anything positive. If you want to give them credence I feel pity for you.

Yes and yes.

This has been debunked over and over and over again. There were no articles for Zoe's games while she was together with Nathan. In fact, the only two articles that Nathan wrote was one for Kotaku, [before he was in a relationship with her](http://kotaku.com/in-recent-days-ive-been-asked-several-times-about-a-pos-1624707346) (and that wasn't even a review) and one for [Rock, Paper, Shotgun](http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/01/08/admission-quest-valve-greenlights-50-more-games/), where the game is shortly mentioned. No full review, nothing while they were dating.

No one ever managed to produce any of the alleged review articles Zoe allegedly received by "sleeping around". This is and always has been a character assassination.

You think someone would get targeted like that by thousands of people without actually instigating anything? Gamergate has no leaders and no membership, you have a lot of people acting out on their own.

Likewise, no one ever managed to produce anything even close to a proof that Anita Sarkeesian is a "manipulative liar". On the flipside, you can't walk five meter into YouTube or [Twitter](https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=jewkeesian&src=typd) before you get clobbered by racist, sexist attacks against her.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWxAljFlb-c&t=102 (and before you begin, this guy is actually really smart, being a researcher and all)

And, as opposed to clowns from The Sarkeesian Effect "documentary", her videos are actually of high quality, and show skill in writing concise and to the point. I may not agree with every single point she makes, or I may not know about the one game or the other, but I was never disappointed in seeing one of her videos appear in my YouTube feed.

But, like I said, this has been debunked countless times. It is so. damn. tiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MxqSwzFy5w
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RVlCvBd21w

One of the most manipulative methods to influence the weakminded is to create a model, state it as truth and then only show evidence from reality that is in line with the model; and if that isn't possible: lie. What it comes down to is that if reality doesn't fit the model, reality in itself is wrong. And in fact, there's already a feminist academic pushing for banning research that goes against political correct opinion.

Anita Sarkeesian is using the same method in her videos and that is why she's considered manipulative. She's suggesting it's normal for people to use violence against objects and that objectifying women allows violence against them. That is just retarded in itself, I'm not allowed to smash my neighbor's car to pieces either now am I? She hates characters like Elphelt in Guilty Gear, she rips on Bayonetta (designed by a woman) and she pretty much says that everything that isn't a flat-chested blank slate is sexist. Again, refer to the video. Even female gamers are disgruntled by this as it removes any variety of women in games, including the more looser types and more shy types. If you just look around, you will see that women in games come in huge varieties already, but Anita completely ignored those women and focused on princess Peach in Super Mario. And when I pointed this out to her on her blog, she just removed the post.

Now, back to important stuff: ricki42: As stated before, the review seems fishy and there are already serious arguments against it. The fact that the author is a target of gamergate means his motivations can be considered questionable at best (as gamergate is about journalistic integrity). And that is why all in all, we should not draw conclusions from the article that we're going to propagate to developers.

We don't like GamersGate debates here, and I won't put up with them.

Shutup about who slept with who (because as DrMcCoy said it's basically horseshit).

If it carries on past this comment right here I will begin deleting them and any that reference them.

Debunk the article, talk about performance and such and don't focus on people directly. After I was harassed by people I simply wont put up with it in my comments, end of.