This is very sad to see from a previously very Linux friendly developer. Headlander from Double Fine Productions will not come to Linux due to their choice of graphics API.
The developer posted this on the Steam forum to clarify it:
QuotePlease excuse me if this isn't the best explanation, i'm not the most technical of folks here, but this is how i understand it:
Previously we've been using Direct X 9 for the windows version of our games, and deriving an opengl version from that to make a mac and linux port.
For Headlander we wanted to push the visuals as much as possible, and so are using the more up to date Direct X 11. Building an opengl version from that would require a rewrite of the whole system we use, and we just don't have the time / money / resources to do that.
Headlander is the last game that we will (probably) ever make on our internal Buddah engine as we are moving to Unreal from now onwards. So even if we did have the time and money etc, it doesn't make much sense to invest lots of work into this engine that we won't ever use again.
The good thing about using Unreal is that is has greater compatibility across win / mac / linux, so we should be able to better support Linux again in our future games - We've already confirmed that Psychonauts 2 will be on Linux.
Also: To make the Mac version, we're using Metal, which has no compatibility with Linux. Where we'd usually be able to make both of those versions together, this time we can't.
We're really sorry guys, we do try our hardest to support everyone, but it's not always possible!
Considering how cool the game looks, I am pretty sad about it myself.
I am more sad that they decided to lock themselves into DirectX and Metal, but not look at a higher OpenGL version to support what they needed which would have worked on all platforms (Vulkan probably came along too far into development for them).
So Metal is part of the issue here, and I fear this won't be the last time a Linux game is missed due to previously being easy to do from a Mac port. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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GustyGhost 27 Jul 2016
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Sad, but what they said makes sense, hope they keep supporting linux in unreal, talking about it, don't know how much you guys know about unreal, but i'm really hoping for a video tutorial about how to create the "cross-compiling-toolchain" for linux in unreal, their documentation about it sucks.
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What about using Vulkan?
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What about using Vulkan?Well the good thing is, Vulkan works on both windows and linux.
But Mac still needs there Metal.
And I also think, like Liam is saying in the article, vulkan probably came out when the game was far in development.
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Schattenspiegel 27 Jul 2016
:(
+1 for communication, though.
-20 for Apple cooking their own soup.
+1 for communication, though.
-20 for Apple cooking their own soup.
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Actually, it wouldn't be so bad if Metal just put in Vulkan in addition. I can understand the need for a stable slowly evolving API to run their GUI system on, but then it would all the more sense to let the games have the Vulkan driver directly from the GPU manufacturer.
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Avehicle7887 27 Jul 2016
"For Headlander we wanted to push the visuals as much as possible" and "Also: To make the Mac version, we're using Metal" = Errm....ok Double Fine, I'd say they've lost their mind here.
What I think:
Most Macs are Sh**, having an integrated GPU or a middle-range one (unless you have money to burn), plus the majority of Mac owners don't have a very high end GPU. Linux on the other hand has access to almost anything Windows does and it's becoming increasingly more popular, in a couple of years time it might even reach or surpass Mac.
What I think:
Most Macs are Sh**, having an integrated GPU or a middle-range one (unless you have money to burn), plus the majority of Mac owners don't have a very high end GPU. Linux on the other hand has access to almost anything Windows does and it's becoming increasingly more popular, in a couple of years time it might even reach or surpass Mac.
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I'm afraid this is exactly the point of single-platform APIs, like DirectX and Metal. :(
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Wait a minute, isn't Headlander out on PS4 as well? IIUC the PS4 uses OpenGL?
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PS4 does not use OpenGL, but if the internet is correct (hmmm, now that I say this out loud ...) the api was derived from it.
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Mountain Man 28 Jul 2016
Eh... I lost a lot of respect for Double Fine after the Spacebase DF 9 fiasco.
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Thanks for the real example of how lock-in API taxes developers and prevents Linux release. That's exactly why Apple and MS don't want to support Vulkan. Anti-competitive crooks. They only change their tune when they are outnumbered. So Vulkan will have really hard time I feel. WebGL succeeded only because browsers which are standard compliant beat IE into the dust. Now MS plays nice and you don't hear them pushing all their ActiveX / Silverlight trash. Not sure how that can be fixed for graphics.
Last edited by Shmerl on 28 Jul 2016 at 1:14 am UTC
Last edited by Shmerl on 28 Jul 2016 at 1:14 am UTC
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What about using Vulkan?Well the good thing is, Vulkan works on both windows and linux.
But Mac still needs there Metal.
And I also think, like Liam is saying in the article, vulkan probably came out when the game was far in development.
I don't usually like to plug non-free projects behind a paywall, but the MoltenVK people were at Siggraph this year to talk about their Vulkan port to Metal.
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I don't get it.. If they're going to the effort of using Metal, why not just jump straight to Vulkan. There is a project called MoltenVK which will make Vulkan work nicely with Metal.
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Guys, I agree that Vulkan/MoltenVK is the right way to go for maximum coverage, but MoltenVK in particular is barely out of the oven. I'd be surprised to see any commercial venture even touch it at this point unless they've already got their product running on Vulkan. And the Vulkan infrastructure (tooling, documentation etc.) has a long way to go to match the competition. We'll get there, quite soon I think, but we're not there yet. Of course there's also the fact that platform coverage isn't exactly the primary concern for many developers.
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Luke_Nukem 28 Jul 2016
For fuck sakes... *throws hands in the air*.
Metal was released Jun 2015, Vulkan spec released Feb 2016, drivers hitting now.
Dx11.2 in 2014.
OpenGL 4.5 released in 2014, technically on par with dx11.
So while I can understand Vulkan wouldn't have been viable. But opengl would have been more than enough, and provides for 3 platforms. What special junk did they use from dx11 that isn't possible in GL? And they expended effort to update the engine for not one, but TWO vendor locked, single platform api.
Fucking API vendor lock-in... if a developer is using DirectX for no particular reason over any cross platform API and library, then fuck'em.
As for Apple, fuck them too. And fuck these guys. And that person over there.
Last edited by Luke_Nukem on 28 Jul 2016 at 9:46 am UTC
Metal was released Jun 2015, Vulkan spec released Feb 2016, drivers hitting now.
Dx11.2 in 2014.
OpenGL 4.5 released in 2014, technically on par with dx11.
So while I can understand Vulkan wouldn't have been viable. But opengl would have been more than enough, and provides for 3 platforms. What special junk did they use from dx11 that isn't possible in GL? And they expended effort to update the engine for not one, but TWO vendor locked, single platform api.
Fucking API vendor lock-in... if a developer is using DirectX for no particular reason over any cross platform API and library, then fuck'em.
As for Apple, fuck them too. And fuck these guys. And that person over there.
Last edited by Luke_Nukem on 28 Jul 2016 at 9:46 am UTC
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>metal
I thought this API was a joke. Why the hell someone would support Apple idiocy instead of forcing them to implement vulkan ?
I thought this API was a joke. Why the hell someone would support Apple idiocy instead of forcing them to implement vulkan ?
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Excepting Psychonauts, I haven't been particularly interested in Doublefine's catalogue, this newest release included.
Nevertheless, I've always had a warm spot for Doublefine because (Iron Brigade notwithstanding) they've released all their games on Linux. (I've even felt guilty about not buying their game because they were so consistently supportive of the Penguin.)
So they've more than earned a pass on not releasing this one game onto Linux, and I accept their apology as sincere.
Last edited by Nanobang on 28 Jul 2016 at 11:56 am UTC
Nevertheless, I've always had a warm spot for Doublefine because (Iron Brigade notwithstanding) they've released all their games on Linux. (I've even felt guilty about not buying their game because they were so consistently supportive of the Penguin.)
So they've more than earned a pass on not releasing this one game onto Linux, and I accept their apology as sincere.
Last edited by Nanobang on 28 Jul 2016 at 11:56 am UTC
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