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PayPalI have been debating whether to write this up for a while, but here I am. I have completely ditched SteamOS in favour of Ubuntu Mate.
If you follow me on Twitter, you would have probably known this article was coming due to how frustrating an experience it has been for me.
I was spurred on due to the BoilingSteam website writing about it, and they echo some of my own thoughts and frustrations.
Recently I was sat with my son and wanted to play a point & click adventure game called Putt-Putt with him. SteamOS needed to restart to update, so I did and it just flashed into a black screen. We waited quite a long time to see if anything happened but nothing did. After rebooting, the system was completely broken with another black screen.
Oh god #SteamOS what have you done to yourself! pic.twitter.com/tQdzSuPuQs
— LiamLinux (@thenaughtysquid) August 20, 2016
I tried everything I could find to fix it. I trawled through the SteamOS help pages, ran their automated recovery scripts from the terminal and nothing worked, everything just resulted in the same black screen. Their help pages mentioned some recovery option that would reset SteamOS, but that doesn't seem to exist if you do the advanced install method (as I had multiple drives with other things on).
I'm not the only person this has happened to; I've seen quite a number of people have a "fatal error loop" requiring a re-install. That is the sort of thing that is going to put people off and already has in some cases. You can see a bug report here that was closed, but people are still having issues. There's another post here, another here and so on. Quite a few people get issues like this and it's not looking good.
That was the final nail in the coffin for my time with SteamOS. I don't have time to deal with such breakage.
That wasn't the first time SteamOS gave me a black screen. It has actually happened to me 3-4 times now, but this time it just didn't want to come back alive. A lot of hassle for something that's supposed to be console-like and be easier to work with to just load up and go. The whole thing feels like it's still in its infancy.
My PS4 has had problems before, so SteamOS certainly isn't alone in having issues, but the difference here is massive. On the PS4 I was able to boot into some sort of safe mode and essentially re-do the PS4 operating system. All achieved with a controller and without any terminals, no resorting to keyboard commands or anything of the sort.
My other issue is that, honestly, I feel like Valve themselves are doing very little for SteamOS to progress into something. Other than driver updates and security fixes they don't seem to be doing anything with it — not even talking about it anymore. I am hoping they have something planned for the next Steam Dev Days, but I'm not holding out hope for something SteamOS related there.
I feel like SteamOS is still missing even some of the most basic things that makes a console-like box attractive to a wider audience. Things like Netflix, Spotify and other simple but useful things like that. You may not agree with me, but everyone I know that owns a console uses a mixture of those two or both rather a lot.
They also missed an important feature of having a party-like system, where you can gather multiple people into a chat/voice chat easily on SteamOS. Something like that is rather essential for setting up games together. I tried it a couple times with Samsai and other people and the built-in voice chat never worked for any of us.
Hell, I feel Valve really missed the mark by not having any livestreaming options in SteamOS. They still haven't even put their own Broadcasting feature into the Linux desktop client nor the SteamOS build yet.
I later setup Ubuntu Mate and within about half an hour it was running solidly with Steam and everything was dandy. For someone like me with whom Linux is the norm, SteamOS is no better than a normal desktop distribution with Steam installed. Since you can have Steam boot directly into Big Picture mode it does seem a little pointless for me now personally. If Steam breaks on Ubuntu Mate, I can find ways to fix it on the same machine — and it won't take the whole machine with it like it will on SteamOS.
The Steam Controller is by far the most useful thing Valve has done recently. I will still happily play from my sofa on Linux thanks to this wonderful device. Thanks to it, I can stay on my sofa, come out of Steam Big Picture and still navigate to other things I want to do all without having to get closer to my TV with a keyboard and mouse.
I still believe SteamOS has its place though. On pre-built machines of course it is much easier (and likely more attractive to consumers) to have SteamOS sold on it, and it makes a good target for developers who use the line of "there's too many distributions". It has done a lot to help push Linux gaming, that goes without saying, but for me it's just not a good fit.
I don't think Valve plan to drop SteamOS any time soon nor do I think it has been a failure. A great experiment and something that has utterly catapulted Linux gaming to where it is now. If Valve ever do a big update to it, I may return to it to see if it's worth it, but considering the few minor updates it gets this may be a long ways off.
So, there ends my experimenting with SteamOS for now.
My final take on this whole experience is this: SteamOS is built for the people making systems and selling them, not for us in reality, Valve just provide it for us because they can. Valve only really care about the problems on the systems sold with it. So I would personally just steer clear of SteamOS unless you're buying it on a supported system.
How have you found your time with SteamOS? Have you also replaced it with a normal distribution like me? Let me know in the comments.
I ditched Steamos one year ago for the exact same reasons, and after suffering the same error.
I cannot work on a system who doesn`t offer good support for desktop operations, limit the experience only to games and crash from time to time. I have to use my pc.
The only reason is: games goes a little better here. And what? That's not enought to use a pc. I still can play good on ubuntu.
Liam, I support everyone of your words.
I ditched Steamos one year ago for the exact same reasons, and after suffering the same error.
I cannot work on a system who doesn`t offer good support for desktop operations, limit the experience only to games and crash from time to time. I have to use my pc.
The only reason is: games goes a little better here. And what? That's not enought to use a pc. I still can play good on ubuntu.
What doesn't work on the desktop. Tell me.
Ubuntu is great overall, I love it too. BUT...
Unity sucks donkey balls. There's no polite way to say it. It's the worst Start Menu I've ever seen in a Linux distro, what were they thinking? I get you as a fan boy can just accept mediocre/poor decisions and feel it's ok, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact any rational person understands it's dogshit and they need another distro.
A'ight, if you have a thin skin, I'm just kidding ;) Ubuntu's fine and has done a lot for Linux adoption too. I personally don't like vanilla Ubuntu anymore (because the UI is dogshit) but others are more forgiving of Canonical's missteps here. Fair enough! I'm not saying I hate Canonical, just that they're unqualified obviously to ever muck around with UI's.
Last edited by Halifax on 31 August 2016 at 11:52 pm UTC
I cannot work on a system who doesn`t offer good support for desktop operations, limit the experience only to games and crash from time to time. I have to use my pc.
The only reason is: games goes a little better here. And what? That's not enought to use a pc. I still can play good on ubuntu.
I have a PC for, well, general computing, sitting at my desk with a proper office chair. The problem is, playing games at that PC is too much like working: a desk, a chair, a keyboard and a mouse. So I have a Steam Machine in my living room, hooked up to an overhead projector. A large screen, a proper surround sound system, a couch, a controller and a bottle of beer on a coffee table.
So, you're basically not a target audience. Steam Machines are not meant for general computing, though they can be tweaked to provide it - but then you're probably better with a general purpose Linux distro.
The question is if there is the target audience is big enough. Sales figures suggest there is not.
boltronics Sep 1, 2016
I have a PC for, well, general computing, sitting at my desk with a proper office chair. The problem is, playing games at that PC is too much like working: a desk, a chair, a keyboard and a mouse. So I have a Steam Machine in my living room, hooked up to an overhead projector. A large screen, a proper surround sound system, a couch, a controller and a bottle of beer on a coffee table.
Hmm... sounds like you just need a better PC. :P
I've got the big screen, surround sound, controllers, drinks, etc. right at my desk. I even have a bean bag I can switch to if I feel the desire, although I much prefer my chair when doing any serious gaming.
The question is if there is the target audience is big enough. Sales figures suggest there is not.Have the sales figures been released, or is this an assumption? I don't doubt you, just curious as I haven't seen anything concrete.
Just remember, Steam Machine sales figures might have little to do with the size of the market, and more to do with the state of the product itself. Valve is not creating a whole new market but trying to take a slice of the console and PC gaming pie. Steam Machines are different but not revolutionary from a consumer standpoint. They're just another alternative to current gaming systems.
The question is if there is the target audience is big enough. Sales figures suggest there is not.Have the sales figures been released, or is this an assumption? I don't doubt you, just curious as I haven't seen anything concrete.
Not directly. Valve announced back in June that half a million Steam Controllers were sold. As many were sold separately, we are talking about less than half a million Steam Machines sold in 7 months. How many exactly we don't know.
Check this interview though:
http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/alienware-we-didn-t-build-the-graphics-amplifier-to-be-a-one-hit-wonder--1327165
Some people think that Steam Machines have missed the boat. Why does Alienware think that they have a bright future?
My perspective is that Steam Machines have been a phenomenal success, but it depends how what you measure that by. If we remember the PC ecosystem prior to Steam Machines, we had a Windows 8 environment. That was an operating system Microsoft admitted wasn't very focused on the PC gamer at the time. As a result, the gaming community was a little upset by that. Steam Machines then came along and aimed to build and operating system for the PC gamer. After that effort came Windows 10, with DirectX 12. Microsoft really woke and knew it needed to re-engage with PC gamers or really risk losing them.
As such, I would give some credit to the Steam Machine initiative for helping Microsoft realize what they had. If you look at the actual use model of Steam Machines, there's a lot of benefit to the platform. If somebody isn't interested in dealing with Windows updates or using a keyboard and mouse - somebody who might just want an appliance on their TV to play thousands of games out there - then a Steam Machine is a solution.
Do you think there's potential for Steam Machines to ever sell in the millions of units?
They may never sell in the millions of units, quite honestly. But the fact is that there's a solution and there's been a huge partnership between hardware companies and Valve to go and build these solutions. I think this is the first time we've had an alternative platform that's viable, works, is reliable and is shipping.
The industry, depending on how things evolve over time, may gravitate towards that in the future. If it doesn't then I would say that's also a win, because it means that traditional Windows PCs are doing so much right that there's really no need to move over to Steam Machines. I think that's great for the entire industry. On the other hand, if things don't continue to go well for Windows PCs, then there's another option for the entire industry and that's a great win too.
That's honest and open, though not very optimistic to us Linux gamers.
That's honest and open, though not very optimistic to us Linux gamers.Yeah, I've seen this interview before. It might not show marketing levels of optimism, but I don't think it's damning either. Seems like they see the experiment as a success and are open to further development.
Mohandevir Sep 1, 2016
Liam, I support everyone of your words.
I ditched Steamos one year ago for the exact same reasons, and after suffering the same error.
I cannot work on a system who doesn`t offer good support for desktop operations, limit the experience only to games and crash from time to time. I have to use my pc.
The only reason is: games goes a little better here. And what? That's not enought to use a pc. I still can play good on ubuntu.
What doesn't work on the desktop. Tell me.
Ubuntu is great overall, I love it too. BUT...
Unity sucks donkey balls. There's no polite way to say it. It's the worst Start Menu I've ever seen in a Linux distro, what were they thinking? I get you as a fan boy can just accept mediocre/poor decisions and feel it's ok, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the fact any rational person understands it's dogshit and they need another distro.
A'ight, if you have a thin skin, I'm just kidding ;) Ubuntu's fine and has done a lot for Linux adoption too. I personally don't like vanilla Ubuntu anymore (because the UI is dogshit) but others are more forgiving of Canonical's missteps here. Fair enough! I'm not saying I hate Canonical, just that they're unqualified obviously to ever muck around with UI's.
You totally have te right to hate Unity but this is an opinion that I don't personally share.
I never understood why Unity got so much hate aside from being the "UI that wasn't needed"... I admit that I had to adjust but overall I got used to it and after a couple of weeks, I began to love it. For my part, it's the simplest UI you can get. Everything is a click away or 2 at max. No need to search in submenus or complicated control panels, the bugs have all been taken care of and the performances are good... I don't get it.
I respectfully ask what is so terrible in Unity? I'm seriously curious to know because, for my part, it meets all my needs and I got tired of searching through all those "Windows UI look alike".
Hey, but that's just me, I might be satisfying myself with mediocrity. ;)
This said, for SteamOS, here is what I think:
The basic development as been done to offer a target and something tangible to game devellopers (Steam Machines). What is required for Phase 2 is to wait for Vulkan to get a foothold in the industry (game engines) and wait for AMD to join the fray with solid driver support. With Vulkan, ports will be much easier to bring to Linux, and with Zen AMD-APU (if they perform as great as they pretend), the price for the entry level Steam Machines will drop substancially.
But that is just my gut feeling and is highly speculative. Still it would make some sense when we consider that Valve is always playing in the long term (Valve time).
You totally have te right to hate Unity but this is an opinion that I don't personally share.
I never understood why Unity got so much hate aside from being the "UI that wasn't needed"... I admit that I had to adjust but overall I got used to it and after a couple of weeks, I began to love it. For my part, it's the simplest UI you can get. Everything is a click away or 2 at max. No need to search in submenus or complicated control panels, the bugs have all been taken care of and the performances are good... I don't get it.
I respectfully ask what is so terrible in Unity? I'm seriously curious to know because, for my part, it meets all my needs and I got tired of searching through all those "Windows UI look alike".
Hey, but that's just me, I might be satisfying myself with mediocrity. ;)
This said, for SteamOS, here is what I think:
The basic development as been done to offer a target and something tangible to game devellopers (Steam Machines). What is required for Phase 2 is to wait for Vulkan to get a foothold in the industry (game engines) and wait for AMD to join the fray with solid driver support. With Vulkan, ports will be much easier to bring to Linux, and with Zen AMD-APU (if they perform as great as they pretend), the price for the entry level Steam Machines will drop substancially.
But that is just my gut feeling and is highly speculative. Still it would make some sense when we consider that Valve is always playing in the long term (Valve time).
First off, apologies for me preceding post with the fan-boy comment/dogshit/etc. After I have a few beers (which I like to do occasionally), I start talking like I would to my mates at a bar - it's a bad read without my charming personality to go along with it, though. I don't mean anything by it :P That's probably why everyone wrote *super super* polite sounding letters to each other back in the 1800's, comedy don't always come across. Except for the transcript of Monty Python In Search of the Holy Grail. For some reason, that reads as funny as the movie.
> I never understood why Unity got so much hate aside from being the "UI that wasn't needed"...
> I respectfully ask what is so terrible in Unity?
Some bits are OK, and I'll admit, it's streamlined/simplified and highly reliable for what functionality is there.
But for me personally, here's why I think it's shit:
1) The Start Menu is an overly complicated piece of junk that makes it actually grating to use as an application Start Menu. It has all these extra features that are almost exclusively Shit I'd Never Use(tm). Additional, you have to actually click through some of that crap just to get to the installed apps list - and it's all munged together in one little section.
KDE's "K"ickstart Menu is just orders of magnitude better in all regards, the myriad of ->user driven<- right-click options and features, the highly useful way you can edit and add you own entries, place stuff in the Favorites, the categorized sub-menus, the ability to make it work in different modes so you can choose the one that works best for you. More things I'm forgetting (there is a lot to it) AND it leaves out all the silly Find Music etc dumbness Canonical erroneously pretends you want in their efforts to sneak in shitty little monetizing schemes.
2) Relates to 1. Unity's Start Menu is a classic classic example of why you don't want a private company doing your desktop environment - although one point in it's favor, Unity isn't as bad of a trainwreck as Windows 10. Win 10 takes it to the next level of why you don't want a private company doing your desktop. It's an adware circus tent as delivered.
3) Compared to KDE, it's just too limited in functionality and features. KDE is a true example of the power of open source community driven collaborative desktop design at it's best.
4) Relates to 3. KDE and GNOME and XCFE and the other community driven DE's give you that Linux unique feeling of being free from the Man. It's just you, the desktop and the community, no private company trying to wheedle their way into the middle of that - and those companies' inevitable bids they are going to try and sneak in to monetize off your daily activities. That might sound silly, but you spend a lot of time on your desktop, it's actually a great feeling being free of that baloney on your desktop.
But I weigh in on the side that the line from open source to private company driven is after the OS and desktop, with for-profit islands all sailing on an open source sea, the line is not between the OS and desktop, with a private company trying to take over your desktop.
boltronics Sep 2, 2016
Don't get me wrong, I'm not as hardcore as Stallman about open source.
LOL. If you knew the first thing about Stallman, you'd know he's very much against "Open Source". He's a free software activist.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not as hardcore as Stallman about open source.
LOL. If you knew the first thing about Stallman, you'd know he's very much against "Open Source". He's a free software activist.
OK, maybe you're right - I'll go read a few articles about it. Yes, you are correct, I have not done a post doc dissertation on the man or anything - I've just read a few bits here and there so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPPikY3uLIQ
Last edited by Halifax on 2 September 2016 at 3:46 am UTC
boltronics Sep 2, 2016
Mohandevir Sep 2, 2016
And welcome to your indoctrination, son. If you don't come out understanding why you do hate Unity, we put you back in the Indoctrination Room and deny you protein until the brainwashing takes properly X-)
It's alright, I'm no fanboy of any desktop. Personnally, and considering that I have kids that usually screw up their DE, I prefer Unity. Else, I'm the first to admit that KDE is a really nice desktop. It's my second pick, in fact. You made your point clear and that is what I expected. My question was no trap or an excuse to start an argument. I finally have another point of view that doesn't use pure emotions and/or hate.
Edit: Personnally I use the search tool in the bash to find my apps (text entry), then I drag them in the shortcut bar. Voilà! I'm all set! I don't need more. ;)
Last edited by Mohandevir on 2 September 2016 at 1:04 pm UTC
ZekThePenguin Sep 2, 2016
I suppose the question 'what needs to happen for Linux to be a viable gaming platform?' is what I come back to. For better or worse, Steam is at the center of it all. Perhaps GOG will surpass Steam someday, but no time soon. Any ideas?
And welcome to your indoctrination, son. If you don't come out understanding why you do hate Unity, we put you back in the Indoctrination Room and deny you protein until the brainwashing takes properly X-)
It's alright, I'm no fanboy of any desktop. Personnally, and considering that I have kids that usually screw up their DE, I prefer Unity. Else, I'm the first to admit that KDE is a really nice desktop. It's my second pick, in fact. You made your point clear and that is what I expected. My question was no trap or an excuse to start an argument. I finally have another point of view that doesn't use pure emotions and/or hate.
Edit: Personnally I use the search tool in the bash to find my apps (text entry), then I drag them in the shortcut bar. Voilà! I'm all set! I don't need more. ;)
Oh, come on now. You're not a Vulcan. We all have passions and things we hate - as a matter of fact, our emotions rule most of our lives, even the ones we consider "logically minded". If you don't love it, you have no business doing it or buying it.
> excuse to start an argument.
I like to argue a little. People come to a site like this for the debates and opinion easily as much as anything else, we're not Stack Exchange here :-)
For me, it's more about the productivity of said opinions and disagreements Linux groups tend to have more interesting disagreements than others.
I hear you on the practicality of Unity and using little tweaks here and there to make it more friendly. I did the same thing. I stuck with Unity and Ubuntu for about the first 8 months or so of getting into Linux for home PC.
But I distinctly remember some sort of joy I'd feel when I switched to using GNOME 3 (which was all brand new, and "KDE" was still just a three-letter combo that meant nothing). I'd go back to Unity and it wasn't there.
It took me a while to figure out what that little spark of satisfaction was. I finally realized, it's because there's no company with their own agenda between me and my desktop now, huh! I didn't even know that could be a thing, before. But it felt very refreshing getting out from under it.
EDIT:
And the only reason I started a more serious reply thread is you triggered a memory with your questioning of (to paraphrase) "why people hate Unity so much". It made me remember distinctly how I had the exact same question for many months after starting out using Ubuntu: why the hell do these old-timers hate Unity so much? Why are there all these other flavors of Ubuntu where the primary reason for the flavor is to ditch Unity?
Last edited by Halifax on 2 September 2016 at 10:51 pm UTC
openSUSE Tumbleweed is my favorite rolling distro.Good choice!
*Way* more reliable than Arch in my experience; nothing arbitrarily breaks every two days.
At the moment I am using Leap 42.1 as my chosen platform and have had very few video or sound issues with my 170-odd installed games. Video card is a GTX 980.
The only problems I have encountered are sound crackling in Life is Strange and D : OS, which I think is a PulseAudio problem; and the missing body problem with Mordor for which I have applied the "__GL_ShaderPortabilityWarnings=0 %command%" fix.
Thing is: That machine only has an Intel GPU (think second gen Core i) and while it would be good enough in terms of performance, at least for testing purposes, the BPM heavily flickers all the time. Especially while there's any kind of input from any controller. Up to a degree of having like 50% of the time being black. From a short research it seemed that this applies to most Intel GPU users (and does *not* affect game rendering, desktop mode, terminals).
Yes, I know, those GPUs aren't meant for gaming in the first place, but they work just fine as long as you don't play the latest and greatest titles in full HD at max quality settings. And the BPM isn't even a highly demanding game, it's basically just a menu UI. Don't get why they can't get that part to work, even more so as the Intel drivers are typically the most stable ones.
Regards,
Chris
Last edited by Alloc on 7 September 2016 at 10:36 am UTC
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