The developer of the game 'Steam Marines' [Official Site, Steam] has been talking about sales of the game, and Linux represented 2% of the total.
Here's a reminder on what the game is:
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It's worth noting that Mac only hit 3%, considering their marketshare on Steam is a lot higher than ours, that's surprising.
Steam Marines 1 lifetime sales are (approximately) 3% Mac and 2% Linux.
— Steamed Buns Bums (@Worthless_Bums) November 8, 2016
So. It's generally not profitable for me to support them.
The developer did say that they will continue to support us, even if it's not financially sound for them to do so. That alone should be applauded.
The developer also noted that Linux users didn't generally need much help:
Linux users almost never contact me for tech support. And the 95% of Windows users represent less than 50% of my tech support issues.
— Steamed Buns Bums (@Worthless_Bums) November 8, 2016
One Tweet in particular caught my attention:
95% of the sales came from Windows users. This was despite Linux users arguing that lots would buy if a Linux version was made available.
— Steamed Buns Bums (@Worthless_Bums) November 8, 2016
I've said it before, and I will say it again, don't bug developers for a Linux version if you aren't personally interested and plan to buy it. It can create situations like this, but it's also worth noting that the developer may have overestimated how much they would make from Linux.
Linux only represents currently 0.89% of the Steam user-base, so 2% of your overall sales to have come from Linux is actually quite healthy. To me, that says the developer expected a little too much. That 2% figure is more than other developers have seen.
It's also worth noting that Steam Marines came to Linux around a year after the original Windows release. Games that don't get a day-1 Linux release often tend to see lower Linux sales as a result of many factors. The first being that Windows obviously had around a year extra to bring in sales, Linux as mentioned above is a smaller market, dual-booters often become impatient and buy a Windows copy, some people use Wine and so on. A day-1 Linux release is generally a must-do if you want to see good sales and support from Linux gamers.
Still, it's great to see developers speaking about this in the open and if you like the look of Steam Marines go pick up a copy and support an indie developer.
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The comments on this article are closed.
WorthlessBums, thank you for all your clarifications. From time to time some people complain about the lack of transparency behind some of the developers' decisions, and seeing you here taking the time to address every single comment is something really remarkable. Besides, all the information you provide helps to bring some light about the main and current problems we have to address to finally become an accessible and profitable platform for game developers.
On a related note, by reading all the comments I had an idea (that I'll post here so that you can Like it if you agree): what about giving these communicative developers a special badge, like the "GOL Supporter" and the "Contributing Editor" ones? Not only it would be a gesture of respect for caring about our community, but also it would be easier to find the developers' responses among the huge number of comments in articles like this. It would only take a single mail to verify the identity and that should be enough.
On a related note, by reading all the comments I had an idea (that I'll post here so that you can Like it if you agree): what about giving these communicative developers a special badge, like the "GOL Supporter" and the "Contributing Editor" ones? Not only it would be a gesture of respect for caring about our community, but also it would be easier to find the developers' responses among the huge number of comments in articles like this. It would only take a single mail to verify the identity and that should be enough.
4 Likes, Who?
Quoting: liamdaweI don't agree with the argument that Linux having less games, means each game will have more sales. We are still normal people with limited incomes, so we won't buy literally everything, we still have to pick and choose what games we are interested in to pick up. Just having less options, doesn't mean we are likely to buy more, it just means we have less to choose from (and in certain genres like this, we have tons), I don't see it any other way.
But the logic is correct. It's not like we buy more games, but it's more likely we buy game X.
Imagine everybody buys 2 games. There's 10 games for Windows and 4 for Linux. Distribution between games is even. Then every game get's 0.2 sells per Windows user in average, but 0.5 sells per Linux user in average. Let there be 1000 Windows users and 10 Linux (1%), each game available for both platforms sells 200 Windows copies and 5 Linux copies - not 2, as to be expected by the OS share.
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Quoting: WorthlessBumsI admit I am curious if Linux builds would do better if launched on day one
There are reasons to think so. Whatever publicity your game gets, it gets it around release, not half a year later. A game doesn't even show up in the recent releases for Linux on Steam if the Windows release is older. (Something they should fix.)
Last edited by Eike on 9 November 2016 at 8:06 am UTC
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Quoting: EikeQuoting: liamdaweI don't agree with the argument that Linux having less games, means each game will have more sales. We are still normal people with limited incomes, so we won't buy literally everything, we still have to pick and choose what games we are interested in to pick up. Just having less options, doesn't mean we are likely to buy more, it just means we have less to choose from (and in certain genres like this, we have tons), I don't see it any other way.
But the logic is correct. It's not like we buy more games, but it's more likely we buy game X.
Imagine everybody buys 2 games. There's 10 games for Windows and 4 for Linux. Distribution between games is even. Then every game get's 0.2 sells per Windows user in average, but 0.5 sells per Linux user in average. Let there be 1000 Windows users and 10 Linux (1%), each game available for both platforms sells 200 Windows copies and 5 Linux copies - not 2, as to be expected by the OS share.
Or you might not buy anything and invest your money somewhere else, like go to cinema.
This is not closed competition between games themselves, they must compete next to other form of entertainment as well. I don't have 50$ budget for half year to spend on games and only games, so I would have to divide it amongst existing games.
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Hey guys,
im the new one that is reading comments and articles about a year or so.
b2t:
i think its cool when somebody supports a plattform that isnt exactly a cash cow. But to be honest that game is not my cup of tea or coffee. and i think a lot of players will think the same. then again the game isnt exactly cheap. for 20€ i can go and grap the f1 2015 for steam at our local shops. thats an triple aaa title from the last generation vs and indie title.
im the new one that is reading comments and articles about a year or so.
b2t:
i think its cool when somebody supports a plattform that isnt exactly a cash cow. But to be honest that game is not my cup of tea or coffee. and i think a lot of players will think the same. then again the game isnt exactly cheap. for 20€ i can go and grap the f1 2015 for steam at our local shops. thats an triple aaa title from the last generation vs and indie title.
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Quoting: WorthlessBumsI admit I am curious if Linux builds would do better if launched on day one
i think so BUT i dont think it would be huge difference. i for myself never believed in a Deus Ex: Mankind divided Linux Version. So i picked up a Windows Version. Yes i love linux but my main rig has windows and linux on it. I need a few Adobe Tools and as long as they dont be ported i cant switch... so thats why my steamlibary fills from time to time with a windows only game. Same happened to me with Alien and Grid: Autosport.
So i have a bad conscience because feral ported the games to my favorite os. But i supported a lot of games with a linux buy as a excuse. :D
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Sgt.Romeo9 Nov 9, 2016
The biggest issue with this is the fact that Linux users are almost always not 100% Linux users. Even if you don't dual boot. For example for a very long time I almost always bought my games on Steam or GOG or Humble on a Windows work laptop my work gave me, and since it was just always there when I saw a sale or bundle. I used it purely for the convenience of it.
Now I generally only buy Linux supported games and play them on my Linux machine, however those sales more than likely counted as a sale for Windows not Linux.
Now this is only my scenario however I'm sure there are tons of these scenarios where Linux sales get counted as Windows sales, and these types of developers need to realise this.
Now I generally only buy Linux supported games and play them on my Linux machine, however those sales more than likely counted as a sale for Windows not Linux.
Now this is only my scenario however I'm sure there are tons of these scenarios where Linux sales get counted as Windows sales, and these types of developers need to realise this.
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Quoting: ColomboQuoting: EikeBut the logic is correct. It's not like we buy more games, but it's more likely we buy game X.
Imagine everybody buys 2 games. There's 10 games for Windows and 4 for Linux. Distribution between games is even. Then every game get's 0.2 sells per Windows user in average, but 0.5 sells per Linux user in average. Let there be 1000 Windows users and 10 Linux (1%), each game available for both platforms sells 200 Windows copies and 5 Linux copies - not 2, as to be expected by the OS share.
Or you might not buy anything and invest your money somewhere else, like go to cinema.
This is not closed competition between games themselves, they must compete next to other form of entertainment as well. I don't have 50$ budget for half year to spend on games and only games, so I would have to divide it amongst existing games.
Of course, there's a thousand other variables and unknowns. But when you take just these two, OS share on Steam and Linux game share on Steam, the expected result of sales is higher than the OS share due to less choice for Linux gamers.
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Quoting: EikeOf course, there's a thousand other variables and unknowns. But when you take just these two, OS share on Steam and Linux game share on Steam, the expected result of sales is higher than the OS share due to less choice for Linux gamers.
No its not, I just explained you why. You can't just take an important part from equation and behave like nothing happens and you can treat this problem in isolation.
First, you would have to prove that it is truly enclosed system and that market behaves like that. Understand your assumptions, verify them or try to explain why results of your model are relevant even if your assumptions are wrong.
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Quoting: WorthlessBumsYou're referencing behavior I haven't really seen evidence of: that people would buy a game for Windows and a year or so later buy the same game again but for Linux. I've only seen this behavior when there is a full re-release like a special edition or GOTY or something of that nature, something with a substantial update and not merely a port.No, this was exactly my point. Additionally, people won't play the Linux version after its release because the game has past its lifespan for those users. That was the point. That may also explain why you have less sales than you would expect to have.
To give you some comparison: I recall both Feral and Aspyr have already broken even on their Linux ports and are making a profit. Their release times are usually near the original release date of the game and the games they are porting are expected to have a much longer lifespan. So depending on what you indie devs are doing, Linux may not be a profitable platform for you (yet). This is also why a day 1 is something I would prefer to see, as that would negate the above scenario and thus my argument (granted you don't get enough sales). And I'm also sure that regardless of outcome, it would put a lot of minds here at ease.
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Quoting: ColomboQuoting: EikeOf course, there's a thousand other variables and unknowns. But when you take just these two, OS share on Steam and Linux game share on Steam, the expected result of sales is higher than the OS share due to less choice for Linux gamers.
No its not, I just explained you why. You can't just take an important part from equation and behave like nothing happens and you can treat this problem in isolation.
First, you would have to prove that it is truly enclosed system and that market behaves like that.
You are asking me to prove the opposite of what I explicitly said ("Of course, there's a thousand other variables and unknowns." ).
Quoting: ColomboUnderstand your assumptions, verify them or try to explain why results of your model are relevant even if your assumptions are wrong.
From the - as stated obviously incomplete and limited - model I am using, the conclusion is as I stated. The main reason I showed this is because Liam came to another result from the same model.
So, you're free to try to argue that my results from the model are false (they are not), tell me that the model is insufficent (which I already said) or propose a better model (feel free...).
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Quoting: SangreDeReptilOn a related note, by reading all the comments I had an idea (that I'll post here so that you can Like it if you agree): what about giving these communicative developers a special badge, like the "GOL Supporter" and the "Contributing Editor" ones? Not only it would be a gesture of respect for caring about our community, but also it would be easier to find the developers' responses among the huge number of comments in articles like this. It would only take a single mail to verify the identity and that should be enough.We used to do it, but removed it, can't remember why. I just added it back in and enabled it for them :)
1 Likes, Who?
Well doing some (rough) mathematics to get some (very rough) numbers:
* We know (Steamspy) that only 1% of Steam "active" accounts have more than 100 games in their library (that's the accounts that really buy a lot of games and that are the more susceptible to buy an indie game), which gives us some 2,000,000 of such accounts. If the 1% of Steam users being under Linux is accurate (more or less) that gives us some 20,000 of such accounts as Linux gamers (from a total of 2,000,000 global Linux accounts as Steam can claim some 200,000,000 active accounts).
* If the game sold some 100,000 units with Linux about 2% of those sales, we have 2000 Linux units for 95,000 Windows units (Mac representing about 3%). So, the game is owned by 5% of Windows most active users (95,000 Windows units / 1,920,000 Windows most active users), by 5% of Mac most active users (3000 Mac units / 60,000 Mac most active users), and by 10% of Linux most active users (2000 Linux units / 20,000 Linux most active users).
The game has probably a better marketshare on Linux that on others plateforms, but granted also probably has less revenues from it if it wasn't a day 1 release leading to Linux buyers more susceptible to buy it on sales or in bundles (depends a bit on the marketing when the game finally came to Linux: with less advertising at the port launch you will get far more traction by sales and bundles, and it will be even more the case with mixed reviews, those being deserved or not). Nonetheless, with Mac and Linux port you get a better potential customer's surface when it comes to the long tail (Note: on September 2014 only 50% of game published on Steam were sold at more than 25,000 units, one year before the figure was above 100,000 units... 2014 is the beginning of the hard times for indie dev' as the amount of published games on Steam start to grow faster than the amount of potential buyers, with each game receiving less visibility on Steam too).
It is true that with less games available on Linux each one should get higher Linux sales than our (more or less) 1% global Steam marketshare. On the other hand Steam has hit the 1000 games available on Linux at the beginning of 2015 (and hit 2000 games one year latter) which represents already far more games than you can expect 99% of Steam's active accounts to own (again only 1% of Steam "active" accounts has a library of 100 games or more). Peoples don't buy games randomly (visibility and reviews play a role) and even with less games available Linux than on Windows we also have far less "junk" games (porting game to Linux was far more difficult as crossplateform engines were only at the beginning of their Linux support) and so I don't think that the 3000 vs 10,000 games available between Linux and Windows figure (which was more 1000 vs 5000 at the beginning of 2015, and more 2000 vs 8000 at the beginning of 2016) works that great when trying to estimate what Linux sales should statistically be: only considering the games that fall in the same category as repartition between all pateform may not be the same (2D may be more easier to port on Linux than more demanding 3D engines) and removing some "junk" games and some older games from Windows stats may help giving a more accurate figure, but again the relative quality of each market should also be taken in account and (IMHO) here Linux wasn't getting the worst games (which is less the case now as exporting games toward Linux market gets more easier with crossplateform engines) despite a low amount of "AAA" games. :)
* We know (Steamspy) that only 1% of Steam "active" accounts have more than 100 games in their library (that's the accounts that really buy a lot of games and that are the more susceptible to buy an indie game), which gives us some 2,000,000 of such accounts. If the 1% of Steam users being under Linux is accurate (more or less) that gives us some 20,000 of such accounts as Linux gamers (from a total of 2,000,000 global Linux accounts as Steam can claim some 200,000,000 active accounts).
* If the game sold some 100,000 units with Linux about 2% of those sales, we have 2000 Linux units for 95,000 Windows units (Mac representing about 3%). So, the game is owned by 5% of Windows most active users (95,000 Windows units / 1,920,000 Windows most active users), by 5% of Mac most active users (3000 Mac units / 60,000 Mac most active users), and by 10% of Linux most active users (2000 Linux units / 20,000 Linux most active users).
The game has probably a better marketshare on Linux that on others plateforms, but granted also probably has less revenues from it if it wasn't a day 1 release leading to Linux buyers more susceptible to buy it on sales or in bundles (depends a bit on the marketing when the game finally came to Linux: with less advertising at the port launch you will get far more traction by sales and bundles, and it will be even more the case with mixed reviews, those being deserved or not). Nonetheless, with Mac and Linux port you get a better potential customer's surface when it comes to the long tail (Note: on September 2014 only 50% of game published on Steam were sold at more than 25,000 units, one year before the figure was above 100,000 units... 2014 is the beginning of the hard times for indie dev' as the amount of published games on Steam start to grow faster than the amount of potential buyers, with each game receiving less visibility on Steam too).
It is true that with less games available on Linux each one should get higher Linux sales than our (more or less) 1% global Steam marketshare. On the other hand Steam has hit the 1000 games available on Linux at the beginning of 2015 (and hit 2000 games one year latter) which represents already far more games than you can expect 99% of Steam's active accounts to own (again only 1% of Steam "active" accounts has a library of 100 games or more). Peoples don't buy games randomly (visibility and reviews play a role) and even with less games available Linux than on Windows we also have far less "junk" games (porting game to Linux was far more difficult as crossplateform engines were only at the beginning of their Linux support) and so I don't think that the 3000 vs 10,000 games available between Linux and Windows figure (which was more 1000 vs 5000 at the beginning of 2015, and more 2000 vs 8000 at the beginning of 2016) works that great when trying to estimate what Linux sales should statistically be: only considering the games that fall in the same category as repartition between all pateform may not be the same (2D may be more easier to port on Linux than more demanding 3D engines) and removing some "junk" games and some older games from Windows stats may help giving a more accurate figure, but again the relative quality of each market should also be taken in account and (IMHO) here Linux wasn't getting the worst games (which is less the case now as exporting games toward Linux market gets more easier with crossplateform engines) despite a low amount of "AAA" games. :)
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Perspective of one Linux gamer:
I'm buying a lot of games, and I also did buy Steam Marines 1, I got it on June 20th, 2014, apparently on sales for 5,99€ at that point.
I'm not really into rogue-likes, or strategy, or even most 2D games -- my favourite games are things like Minecraft, ARK Survival Evolved, Borderlands, 7 Days to Die, Planet Explorers, Skyrim and Fallout 3 (the latter two I played with Wine; I don't have any Windows). I probably bought it because a) it was reasonably cheap, and b) ran on Linux. I did the same for hundreds of other games, most of which I tried out, but never really played. I also sometimes pay full price, but only if the game really interests me and only if it runs on Linux.
I'm only pestering developers if I would like to play the game, or if it's got empty, but existing, depots on steam, or if it actually would already work on Linux, but wasn't released: https://seegras.discordia.ch/Blog/windows-unity-games-on-linux/
I'm buying a lot of games, and I also did buy Steam Marines 1, I got it on June 20th, 2014, apparently on sales for 5,99€ at that point.
I'm not really into rogue-likes, or strategy, or even most 2D games -- my favourite games are things like Minecraft, ARK Survival Evolved, Borderlands, 7 Days to Die, Planet Explorers, Skyrim and Fallout 3 (the latter two I played with Wine; I don't have any Windows). I probably bought it because a) it was reasonably cheap, and b) ran on Linux. I did the same for hundreds of other games, most of which I tried out, but never really played. I also sometimes pay full price, but only if the game really interests me and only if it runs on Linux.
I'm only pestering developers if I would like to play the game, or if it's got empty, but existing, depots on steam, or if it actually would already work on Linux, but wasn't released: https://seegras.discordia.ch/Blog/windows-unity-games-on-linux/
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oldrocker99 Nov 9, 2016
Hell, I bought it some time ago.
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Quoting: liamdaweThis is nice. Also, potential trolls won't be able to impersonate developers now.Quoting: SangreDeReptilOn a related note, by reading all the comments I had an idea (that I'll post here so that you can Like it if you agree): what about giving these communicative developers a special badge, like the "GOL Supporter" and the "Contributing Editor" ones? Not only it would be a gesture of respect for caring about our community, but also it would be easier to find the developers' responses among the huge number of comments in articles like this. It would only take a single mail to verify the identity and that should be enough.We used to do it, but removed it, can't remember why. I just added it back in and enabled it for them :)
0 Likes
It was good to know this. However 2% of 100k is 2k. It's really a considerable user base. ^_^
HEEEEEEEYYYY!!! I want a badge too!!! :D
Last edited by CleanWater on 10 November 2016 at 7:54 pm UTC
Quoting: SangreDeReptilQuoting: liamdaweThis is nice. Also, potential trolls won't be able to impersonate developers now.Quoting: SangreDeReptilOn a related note, by reading all the comments I had an idea (that I'll post here so that you can Like it if you agree): what about giving these communicative developers a special badge, like the "GOL Supporter" and the "Contributing Editor" ones? Not only it would be a gesture of respect for caring about our community, but also it would be easier to find the developers' responses among the huge number of comments in articles like this. It would only take a single mail to verify the identity and that should be enough.We used to do it, but removed it, can't remember why. I just added it back in and enabled it for them :)
HEEEEEEEYYYY!!! I want a badge too!!! :D
Last edited by CleanWater on 10 November 2016 at 7:54 pm UTC
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