Aspyr Media is currently working on the feasibility of porting Civ VI to Linux. They are the same great company that gave us the Linux port for Civ V.
Note: This is also discussed in this Steam group.
The Steam topic in question is about Linux support, wherein we, the Linux community have been expressing interest and support of the possibly upcoming Linux release by Aspyr. We've also been talking about technical challenges, APIs, as well as things we'd like to see in a port.
Aside from the trolling from the usual people like meraco, it's been positive and encouraging.
The moderators are NOT employees of Aspyr, Firaxis or 2K Games. They are "volunteer" moderators who don't seem to have any responsibility to any of the involved companies. The moderators do not seem to have any direct connection or communication with Aspyr/Firaxis/2K Games, they get all their updates from Twitter and other social media just like the rest of us.
Thread:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/364042063110545181/?ctp=6
NOTE: This thread has been heavily edited. Many of the supporting posts have been removed. I preserved a couple screenshots of my post just in case, but I wish I had the whole thing. Maybe some of the other community members can fill in some of the gaps here.
What's happening:
The mods are attacking the Linux community, citing rules violations for expressing support of a Linux port.
We begin, not suprisingly, with the user, meraco. Which you've likely heard of before. This time the mods jump on his bandwagon.
Banned.
This ban really bothers me.
This is what unacceptable developer/publisher support looks like.
A professional troll at work
Several users, myself included, have been banned. Many posts by many more users have been selectively erased to dismantle the consensus of support. None of the [notably anti-Linux] trolls have been banned, however.
The post that got me banned.
My ban notification.
Annnnnd throwing it down the memory hole.
From the 2K Games forum rules:
Should people be arguing with mods in general? No. Probably not.
Should mods visibly undermine Linux discussions? No. Probably not.
Should people be banned for respectfully staying on-topic? Again, No. Definitely not.
Moderation is a responsibility, not a position of power to arbitrarily abuse others for political reasons. If we cannot respectfully discuss these abuses in order to reinstate a positive atmosphere, we are only going to continue to be abused.
We've reached out to Aspyr on this issue. This was their reply:
Thanks again to Aspyr for being Linux champions.
As of writing this we've yet to receive a response from Firaxis or 2K Games.
Notes from liamdawe, the editor
Showing support for Linux games is great, but people like "meraco" should be completely ignored. Do not rise to their apparent trolling by quoting them or replying to them. They and other anti-Linux posters feed on your replies. Just don't rise to them, you make it worse by doing so. The moderators likely would have ignored it if people didn't rise to the trolls.
As for posting "+1", that alone is spam (by Steam's standards) so be sure to reply with more than that.
It's also never a good idea to discuss a moderators actions in public on Steam, as that will obviously have repercussions. Same goes for claiming it's some sort of dictatorship. That goes for any website, not just Steam.
As always, if you want to show support for a Linux port be smart about it. Feel free to use our forum at any time and link developers to it. I won't go around locking them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Note: This is also discussed in this Steam group.
The Steam topic in question is about Linux support, wherein we, the Linux community have been expressing interest and support of the possibly upcoming Linux release by Aspyr. We've also been talking about technical challenges, APIs, as well as things we'd like to see in a port.
Aside from the trolling from the usual people like meraco, it's been positive and encouraging.
The moderators are NOT employees of Aspyr, Firaxis or 2K Games. They are "volunteer" moderators who don't seem to have any responsibility to any of the involved companies. The moderators do not seem to have any direct connection or communication with Aspyr/Firaxis/2K Games, they get all their updates from Twitter and other social media just like the rest of us.
Thread:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/289070/discussions/0/364042063110545181/?ctp=6
NOTE: This thread has been heavily edited. Many of the supporting posts have been removed. I preserved a couple screenshots of my post just in case, but I wish I had the whole thing. Maybe some of the other community members can fill in some of the gaps here.
What's happening:
The mods are attacking the Linux community, citing rules violations for expressing support of a Linux port.
We begin, not suprisingly, with the user, meraco. Which you've likely heard of before. This time the mods jump on his bandwagon.
Banned.
This ban really bothers me.
This is what unacceptable developer/publisher support looks like.
A professional troll at work
Several users, myself included, have been banned. Many posts by many more users have been selectively erased to dismantle the consensus of support. None of the [notably anti-Linux] trolls have been banned, however.
The post that got me banned.
My ban notification.
Annnnnd throwing it down the memory hole.
From the 2K Games forum rules:
Quote1. Be a Contributor
The 2K forums host civil discussions on a variety of topics, and we always want to keep the conversation welcoming, inclusive, and a positive experience.
Should people be arguing with mods in general? No. Probably not.
Should mods visibly undermine Linux discussions? No. Probably not.
Should people be banned for respectfully staying on-topic? Again, No. Definitely not.
Moderation is a responsibility, not a position of power to arbitrarily abuse others for political reasons. If we cannot respectfully discuss these abuses in order to reinstate a positive atmosphere, we are only going to continue to be abused.
We've reached out to Aspyr on this issue. This was their reply:
QuoteThank you so much for bringing this to our attention. The last thing we want is for players to feel ostracized. I have forwarded this email to those who monitor our forums and we will be discussing what to do shortly.
Again, thank you so much for your concern for this community. We really do appreciate it!
Thanks again to Aspyr for being Linux champions.
As of writing this we've yet to receive a response from Firaxis or 2K Games.
Notes from liamdawe, the editor
Showing support for Linux games is great, but people like "meraco" should be completely ignored. Do not rise to their apparent trolling by quoting them or replying to them. They and other anti-Linux posters feed on your replies. Just don't rise to them, you make it worse by doing so. The moderators likely would have ignored it if people didn't rise to the trolls.
As for posting "+1", that alone is spam (by Steam's standards) so be sure to reply with more than that.
It's also never a good idea to discuss a moderators actions in public on Steam, as that will obviously have repercussions. Same goes for claiming it's some sort of dictatorship. That goes for any website, not just Steam.
As always, if you want to show support for a Linux port be smart about it. Feel free to use our forum at any time and link developers to it. I won't go around locking them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Not once before has this happened to me, not once before.
I have reported this aforementioned moderator for harassment due to them banning +20 users in under three days' time.
I have ALL Civilization titles previously released and had Civilization VI on my wishlist, but am now boycotting 2K on principle. I will not buy from them, as I am not buying from other companies (Blizzard, Bethesda, EA) who have expressed anti-Linux sympathies.
Vote with your money.
Last edited by Maki on 21 Dec 2016 at 10:35 am UTC
Also, these windows users who hate on Linux are scum, trash etc. It takes a special kind of asshole to hate on a marginalized group of people.
Linux gamers are too often stamped as "toxic" for passionately and rightfully demanding what simply was PROMISED. Pretty much echoing the tone that was set to upset later on after the promise and when the money was in. It would be the best for developers to not promise anything at all if any doubt factors are present according to a Linux port.
One example is Microsoft having contracts for smaller developers wanting to release on XBox Live Arcade, forcing exclusivity until after the contract expired.
Linux as a whole simply does not have the funds to buy up developer interest in developing for us. There's no Patreon for a Linux advocacy group where we can all pay a monthly fee to help pay for game development. (May be an idea to set one up?)
We simply don't have the financial weight that MS and Apple have.
The underdog mentality is appealing--or at least easy to slip into--but won't help us get anywhere. The best it can do is make us seen and heard, but the worst it can do and indeed has done is give us a reputation as whiny and self-important elitists. Just like a few obnoxious trolls make some of you proclaim all Windows users are like that.
Yes, we have the right not to buy games not available on our OS. What we don't have is the right to expect every developer to cater to our whims. Indifference does not always equal hate. We've got a lot of work ahead us before our tiny platform is important enough to warrant your expectations. The technical stuff is shaping up well, but that's just one step towards the goal.
Please be active and enthusiastic about Linux, but don't throw tantrums when things don't go our way. If you get wrongful treatment from volunteer moderators on a forum, the only productive choice is to report them to the developer. Even a justified shitstorm always results in a stinking mess.
Diversity and multiple choices is, and will always be worth fighting for.
I would send a PM to the moderator asking him about it. Depending on his answer I will accept it or move up the chain of command.
Last edited by Aryvandaar on 21 Dec 2016 at 2:21 pm UTC
There will always always be someone unhappy about something, willing to spend his/her time annoying someone just for the giggles.
You gain nothing by bringing flamefests into the discussion, and hopefully no one from Aspyr or Firaxis will spend an yota of time with this on the Steam forums, that would be stupid of them. Just give it a rest, live and let live. And if someone feels the need to attack publicly Linux here or in the Steam forums, then i truly feel sorry for them since Linux is truly all around them, from the mobile to the desktop, router or a server, a smart appliance or a car, a camera or a airplane entertainment system... the list goes on.
Just give it a rest, that's not a fight they can win, and fighting them is not a fight you can win either.
That makes no sense, the company didn't do it. It's not even their forum it happened on.
Oh and thanks for the link to that Steam group, i was totally not aware of that. Every Linux gamer should join that Steam group!
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/OnlyBuyLinuxGames/
Last edited by Peapoll on 21 Dec 2016 at 7:53 pm UTC
I wanted to play this game with you too buddy. You were gonna kick my ass in it remember? :( Well if you're not getting it, I don't think I will either.
I am not so sure that Firaxis is "anti-Linux, but I will tell you I am sick and tired of the apathy shown towards our community by AAA pubs/devs in regards to ports or support for ports, a few obvious exceptions notwithstanding. Being marginalized isn't fun, and when you speak out about this neglect or about moderators on forums/threads favoring Windows users you're labeled "toxic". But the Win-Trolls brow-beating you aren't even sneezed at in most cases. It's ridiculous.
I would like to say though that I agree that posting "+1 Linux!" is dumb and people should stop it. It makes us look like a bunch of 14-year olds, no disrespect to actual 14-year olds, but I am a grown man and I suspect a lot of the folks that post "+1 Linux!" in every Linux port request thread are as well. At least give a game you really want a sentence or two explaining or expressing your interest. Come on guys.
As has been mentioned earlier by others, the advice to ignore a troll only works if the troll's goal is to get a rise out of you. But when a troll is trying to silence you or get a thread derailed or shut down to keep you or others like you from showing your interest in a title to a dev, the strategy changes.
Last edited by Joeyboots80 on 22 Dec 2016 at 7:20 am UTC
The market is changing, like this market always is, but for now developers might simply decide that instead of porting to a system that might or might not make them money, the safe bet is to put those pennies (and those man-hours if this would be done internally) towards their next big seller on larger platforms. They might not be moving with the times here, but that's business inertia for you.
So, like I wrote in my previous comment, focus on Linux "evangelism" and keep voting with your wallet to make us noticed. Playing the martyr might not be toxic, but it sure as hell is annoying. Play with the trolls and other woodland creatures if you feel that's useful, but bashing developers themselves for not being adventurous enough to be among the first few to support Linux is hardly productive.
EDIT: Some weird English annihilated. (Language, not people.)
Last edited by tuubi on 22 Dec 2016 at 7:47 am UTC
I want to emphasize what the editor mentioned in the post.
Steam discussion rules state that you cannot openly discuss moderation (or bait moderators, or insult other users [including moderators]). If you believe a moderator acted inappropriately, contact a global moderator or steam support; report the post.
This goes for troublesome users as well --- Report the posts, and don't take any troll bait. Just let the moderators handle it.
Just wanted to say a few things here that I've stated elsewhere:
1) Users cannot see what moderators do, the actual ban reasons, warnings and bans sent from moderators, etc.
2) Not a single person was banned for +1 posts or spam. Not a single one. Those who were banned were arguing about moderation (against the STEAM rules, set by valve, and acted on by any moderator who enforces the rules) or insulting other users.
3) +1 posts are indeed against the rules, BUT, the game hub moderator did the appropriate thing here: Encouraged users to post their support and discuss a linux port. The moderator purposefully allowed +1 posts as long as there was discussion going on as well; otherwise +1 posts just keep bumping a thread to the top and becomes spam.
4*) (Edit) Gamehub moderators have no way of PMing users. Sometimes they have to issue a 24 hour ban with the intent of sending a private message via the ban message. These bans are overturned immediately, and are only used for the message therein, not to actually ban the user. This is a tooling issue, not an abusive one.
Noone was being censored from or banned for advocating linux. I say this as both a global moderator who can see the ban reasons, deleted posts, and moderator-user discussions, and as an avid linux user who would love to see civ6 and other AAA titles on linux.
If you think there is moderator abuse, please either contact a global moderator or steam support, do not openly discuss moderation or backseat moderate. These are rules set in place by valve, not gamehub moderators, and enforced by moderators.
Last edited by Hwkiller on 22 Dec 2016 at 6:13 pm UTC
Last edited by oberjaeger on 22 Dec 2016 at 9:11 pm UTC
You may have gotten me wrong a little bit. I am not a troll nor do I condone trolling. I also go out of my way to tell other Linux folks on Steam to not post +1's and to give at least a couple sentences about why you want the game in question.
I do and intend to continue to do Linux evangelism and already vote with my wallet, check my Steam collection. With that said, I respect and understand your perspective, with a couple caveats.
I disagree that "they are just doing business" when they (devs) are purposely ignoring a segment of their customer base and allowing trolls to troll freely against these folks whilst banning people who retaliate in response to said trolling by Windows "fanboys" or MS shills. The market is indeed changing, but not in the way you say. The market has always been the way you describe. Business and how it's conducted hasn't changed at all. Since when has it NOT been about evaluating risk for corporations when producing content or products for sale? The bottom line is still King. I get that.
Now of course, I am not trying to make a blanket statement about the PC gaming market in general, I am only talking about the ones who allow or perpetrate this behavior in their forums. There are many devs, especially indie ones, who are very attentive to all of their audience regardless of platform and I salute those people. Those are the people that truly deserve our money.
You are right, we chose Linux. I get that too. I am not butthurt about Game A or B not coming to Linux. I never am. If a dev answers my inquiry with a "No we don't plan to make a Linux port: or "Maybe someday in the future but we are busy now", I say thank you and move on. What I do have a problem with is how Linux gamers are treated by some of these sorts as a jerk for asking a simple question. A simple question that could lead to a purchase of the product inquired about. This is what my problem is. I chose Linux knowing full well that I would not be able to play every game that comes out. I am ok with that. I am not ok with harassment, brow-beating, or banning due to lopsided and/or biased moderating of people who are simply trying to ask if a game may be planned for their platform.
Last edited by Joeyboots80 on 23 Dec 2016 at 2:39 am UTC
Hwkiller, how come a disruptive antagonistic troll such as meraco does not get banned or moderated? If I'm interested in a game that doesn't have a Linux version I go to the forums to see if one is planned and inevitably if there is a linux discussion thread the troll is posting same old comments and trying to wind people up.
I think it's no wonder people become critical of the moderation for getting banned for minor infractions such expressing thier intent to financially support a developer, while an obvious troll runs rampant visibly annoying Steam users but is free to post the same inflammatory comments over and over. How come?
The way they handle communication and the various Internet forums is another thing. I don't know if they simply don't follow the Steam forums or if they just don't have control over them. I doubt any of these developers actively promote anti-linux trolling, even if they don't do much to work against it.
What I meant was that Linux has quite recently become a financially viable part of the gaming market, not that the nature of the market itself is changing.