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Since the level of toxic posts in the community has sadly risen, I have now rolled out the moderation queue approvals process that was in place on the forum into article comments too.
If you have seen a message above the comments box about being in the list, you can mostly ignore it. A side-effect of it, was that if you hadn't posted in the forum 3+ times (and the posts were approved), but you did make plenty of article comments, it would see you as having to go through the approvals process. I have since adjusted it to remove any older users from the mod queue who made at least 3 article comments.
It's in place for all new users, so we catch spam (and stupid troll accounts) and remove/ban before it hits live and annoys us and you.
I've also made it so I can force naughty users into an "always on" mod queue, so we can remove completely idiotic and toxic comments before they are posted. Hopefully this will make a few users re-think their attitude, rather than us having to outright ban people.
Does this affect your freedom of speech if I think you're being naughty and idiotic and force the queue to always be on for you? No. Very few sites don't moderate comments, don't be silly.
Part of my commitment to keeping this community as fun as possible for all. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
If you have seen a message above the comments box about being in the list, you can mostly ignore it. A side-effect of it, was that if you hadn't posted in the forum 3+ times (and the posts were approved), but you did make plenty of article comments, it would see you as having to go through the approvals process. I have since adjusted it to remove any older users from the mod queue who made at least 3 article comments.
It's in place for all new users, so we catch spam (and stupid troll accounts) and remove/ban before it hits live and annoys us and you.
I've also made it so I can force naughty users into an "always on" mod queue, so we can remove completely idiotic and toxic comments before they are posted. Hopefully this will make a few users re-think their attitude, rather than us having to outright ban people.
Does this affect your freedom of speech if I think you're being naughty and idiotic and force the queue to always be on for you? No. Very few sites don't moderate comments, don't be silly.
Part of my commitment to keeping this community as fun as possible for all. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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To moderate unwanted comments or to shut down opposition?Opposition and debate is fine and natural and I've had near zero complaints about our moderation in the years we've done this.
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:O
TBH I would of said that the GOL community is anything but toxic
I'm not the most frequent in here nor read every article/post so may miss a lot of it but still, would never consider GOL/users being toxic! .
I admit I pick on liam on occasion :P
TBH I would of said that the GOL community is anything but toxic
I'm not the most frequent in here nor read every article/post so may miss a lot of it but still, would never consider GOL/users being toxic! .
I admit I pick on liam on occasion :P
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I read the comments pretty often, and I cannot remember the last time I saw anything toxic. I am not against moderation as such, but is there really a problem that needs solving?
This is probably due to good moderation. :)
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UltraViolet 21 May 2017
i think its all about how you say something. you can get your point across better if you remain carm and try and articulate into text how your feeling about the subject in hand
i was on a forum a little while ago [the LMZF community] and we where talking about adding a 'like' button and i was only for it if a dislike button was also added, as there is no light without the dark if everyone is happy all the time when this is just the new 'normal'. any way, a dislike button was never added, but i was fine with it as we talked constructively for quite some length no one never once trolling anyone.
this happened on another forum, but, this time i was shot down instantly with a very short sentence from the owner and i felt my view [while being in the minority] didnt matter
i'm woffling sorry
i was on a forum a little while ago [the LMZF community] and we where talking about adding a 'like' button and i was only for it if a dislike button was also added, as there is no light without the dark if everyone is happy all the time when this is just the new 'normal'. any way, a dislike button was never added, but i was fine with it as we talked constructively for quite some length no one never once trolling anyone.
this happened on another forum, but, this time i was shot down instantly with a very short sentence from the owner and i felt my view [while being in the minority] didnt matter
i'm woffling sorry
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To moderate unwanted comments or to shut down opposition?Opposition and debate is fine and natural and I've had near zero complaints about our moderation in the years we've done this.
One site, one community, one OS ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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It's a pity Liam (et al.?) must spend time acting as a parent for people one would have thought were worthy of the epithet "civilized." Still, this is what magazine and newspaper editors have been doing with "letters to the editor" and "opinion" sections of their periodicals since the beginning. Shouting matches, bullying, and thuggery only detract and distract from a healthy society, be it online or off.
P.S. The first thing I do upon signing in at Reddit is hit "New" because I'm more interested in what's new than what's popular. ;)
Last edited by Nanobang on 21 May 2017 at 12:39 pm UTC
P.S. The first thing I do upon signing in at Reddit is hit "New" because I'm more interested in what's new than what's popular. ;)
Last edited by Nanobang on 21 May 2017 at 12:39 pm UTC
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Some people just think their ideas have to be done though, but as the owner I have to stop somewhere and I cannot implement everything people want. Not only that, but some ideas are just bad.this time i was shot down instantly with a very short sentence from the owner and i felt my view [while being in the minority] didnt matterThat exact same thing happened to me here. Was pretty unprofessional to say the least.
Long time ago now though, and I won't go into it any more.
If you're unhappy with something, you can PM me any time.
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level of toxic posts... I hate censer. mebi look to slashdot. I really like there system for not blocking but intend there lvl system so man don't see bad posts if man not won to.
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level of toxic posts... I hate censer. mebi look to slashdot. I really like there system for not blocking but intend there lvl system so man don't see bad posts if man not won to.We will never do a level/points system, ever. We had discussions about it before and I personally really hate them. Toxic posts often end up being voted up constantly (a major issue I have with reddit). I really don't think it's a system that works. What we have now does generally work very well.
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Toxic posts often end up being voted up constantly (a major issue I have with reddit). I really don't think it's a system that works.Hear, hear.
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Also, making someone's Gravatar their avatar by default instead of the blankish one would be nice (just enabled it manually, but many sites do it by default, would be nice if this site did too!)
I'm glad you mentioned this! I agree completely. I actually didn't even realize gravatar was an option.
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cRaZy-bisCuiT 21 May 2017
Hi Liam,
I totally got your point! Still I do hope controversial issues may still be possible to discuss.
I totally got your point! Still I do hope controversial issues may still be possible to discuss.
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Price of success. Seems pretty cleverly handled, actually.
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Hi Liam,Discussion of course is always welcome, it's more how people conduct themselves. Opposing opinions to mine are perfectly fine and I don't want to hide them, since I've often had my mind completely changed by comments. That's entirely different to toxic attitudes :)
I totally got your point! Still I do hope controversial issues may still be possible to discuss.
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Honestly i think you can be a bit thin skinned at times, i do.I've been called that numerous times and I couldn't care less.
Liam is thick skinned about being called thin skinned.
As far as moderation goes, I wouldn't be the first to say that a healthy discussion requires some degree of curation. What Liam is putting in place seems to be the bare minimum, although it wouldn't surprise me at all if there were folks who consider it Going Too Far. But as the saying goes, "If you try to please everyone, somebody won't like it." So you just gotta draw your line where you draw it, and stick to that. Good on Liam for doing so.
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Good thing there, yes. I do agree with this measure. :)
However, do keep in mind not to confuse tone with content or intent. Swearing does not mean you're toxic. Likewise, you can be very toxic while cushioning your words with flowery language and appearing calm. When you moderate, you need to evaluate the content of the message (which yes, can be difficult sometimes), not the tone.
However, do keep in mind not to confuse tone with content or intent. Swearing does not mean you're toxic. Likewise, you can be very toxic while cushioning your words with flowery language and appearing calm. When you moderate, you need to evaluate the content of the message (which yes, can be difficult sometimes), not the tone.
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Moderation is cool...in moderation of course :). If you're going to have a system that limits users based on behaviour, then there should be a well defined 'rules of conduct'. If you warn someone, you can point to a rule. If you have to ban someone, again, you can point to a clearly defined rule. Makes it clear for your users what's expected of them and allows you to moderate without getting into arguments (i.e. "You broke rule #4 twice.." instead of "well, I just don't think that's what we want here").
Also, the rules can be something you and the 'community' come up with together, so everyone's on the same page :).
Beemer
Also, the rules can be something you and the 'community' come up with together, so everyone's on the same page :).
Beemer
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In my experience if you get too specific on rules, trolls just use them as monkey bars and you're stuck with an endless game of "not touching youuuuuu!" Clearly defined rules are good for things like "no selling products" and so forth, but there's a lot of stuff in personal interaction that aren't so easily codified. Plus, some people get very good at [JAQing off](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions) so you need some degree of flexibility.
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In my experience if you get too specific on rules, trolls just use them as monkey bars and you're stuck with an endless game of "not touching youuuuuu!"
I feel that kinda touches with my "don't get stuck up on tone" comment. When you see that someone is playing this kind of game, you can just ban them still. You don't have to mindlessly follow the letter of the law, but you need to follow the intent.
You catch a rules-lawyer that goes about saying "but here in subsection 3, it says X, but by the dictionary definition what I did is Y", don't get down on their nitpicky level, but just ban them. Don't even try to explain yourself to them, they only care about finding loop-holes in your explanation.
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I agree that trolls will be rules lawyers, but my point still stands. It's a set laid out rules for folks to follow. You don't want ambiguity or you can be perceived as arbitrarily enforcing the rules.
Like McCoy said, if they want to troll and play games, it'll be pretty obvious, just ban them and move on. If they happen to point out loopholes in the rules, you can still ban them, and then adjust the rules to match the intent better.
As for personal interaction, I think it's very easy to codify. No threats (should be insta, perma ban imho), no use of words that are considered 'racist' by the general population, no personal attacks (i.e. "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!").
That means even a heated discussion can be moderated. If one or more posters resorts to personal attacks or anything worse than "I think you're fricking stupid for thinking 'X'!", you can mod, warn, or ban or shut the thread down as per the rules.
Beemer
Last edited by Beemer on 22 May 2017 at 3:51 am UTC
Like McCoy said, if they want to troll and play games, it'll be pretty obvious, just ban them and move on. If they happen to point out loopholes in the rules, you can still ban them, and then adjust the rules to match the intent better.
As for personal interaction, I think it's very easy to codify. No threats (should be insta, perma ban imho), no use of words that are considered 'racist' by the general population, no personal attacks (i.e. "your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!").
That means even a heated discussion can be moderated. If one or more posters resorts to personal attacks or anything worse than "I think you're fricking stupid for thinking 'X'!", you can mod, warn, or ban or shut the thread down as per the rules.
Beemer
Last edited by Beemer on 22 May 2017 at 3:51 am UTC
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