The Witcher 3 is something Linux users have been practically begging to have, but the problem is that it seems it will likely never come to Linux. An ex-Virtual Programming developer has taken to reddit explaining why this may have happened.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I should stress, for our own record here that this is not the official word from Virtual Programming or CD Projekt RED. This is the personal opinion of an ex-VP developer.
Here's the issue: The Linux version of The Witcher 2 was released in a poor state, it had poor performance and just didn't really work well at all. It was later fixed-up and last time I tried it, the performance was absolutely fine for me. The real problem, is the amount of hate that was sent towards the porters Virtual Programming and directly to CD Projekt RED as well. Even I personally saw some of the hate that was sent their way and it was downright idiotic and absolutely uncalled for.
I will absolutely hold my hands up as well, I made mistakes around it since I simply didn't know enough at the time, and to be honest three years ago I was still learning a lot about everything. I later corrected what I said, as I always aim to.
Writing on reddit, this developer said (source):
QuoteI agree, things were not right on release... but the vocality of people went way beyond that. It was an all out hate campaign against VP, against CDPR for "lying about the port being native". I attempted to help people out in my own time and got absolutely roasted and abused for it.
The community needs to realise it simply cannot justify this sort of behaviour if they want to convince devs and publishers to support them. There is no excuse.
It seems we may have also seen a port of The Witcher 1 as well, as the developer also said (source):
QuoteThe vitriol was unbelievable. Yes we messed up the performance on release but we put it right. However a huge hate campaign ensued. Both VP and CDPR got lots of vengeful hate mail sent to them. I cannot help but feel this damaged CDPR's view of the Linux platform irrevocably.
They certainly didnt blame us, because they had us work on a Mac port of Witcher 1 to replace the non-functioning Wineskin version. The same port would have ran on Linux too with very little extra work, but they were not interested in releasing it.
There's also this post from another user, who said at the time The Witcher 2 released for Linux, CDProjekt apparently lost a fair amount on the Warsaw Stock Exchange. Apparently due to such a big backlash from the community about the initial release quality. I haven't verified that myself, but if true it would certainly make CDProjekt rather against doing another Linux port with anyone.
This is sad, really sad. I hope this makes a few people reconsider their attitude when talking to developer about the performance of ports. Performance can be worked on and fixed, burnt bridges are harder (and sometimes impossible) to fix.
This reminds me of the time the Blizzard President responded to a small petition asking for Linux ports of their games. The response to the petition was really nice to see from such a big company and truthfully the response I fully expected, but the original statement in reply to it from the petition author (now deleted by the author, but captured in my article) was downright childish and idiotic.
Yes problems are annoying, but throwing insults around helps no one and yes it does make us look bad. I get where people are coming from, to an extent, since some games do end up getting left in a terribly broken state for a long time and sometimes forever. However, in this case VP did good and continued working and now, as stated previously, The Witcher 2 seems fine. Their others ports are generally pretty decent too.
I just hope in future that this developer who got a massive amount of hate and CD Projekt RED can look past it somehow, for all the fans of their franchise on Linux.
Note: I personally spoke to this developer about publishing this with their approval, in the hopes that it might get a few people to re-think their initial attitude towards problems in games. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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And there is nothing wrong in attacking a bad product. If we're 2% of the market it still doesn't mean that we need to be treated like gatbage and yet be blamed for not accepting the poor port that we paid money for. It's really childish of them how they try to actually make us feel bad about ourselves.
First of all, we weren't treated like garbage. Developers actually worked on fixing bugs. And secondly, no way it justifies any attacks. Provide constructive criticism, not hatred.
10 Likes, Who?
I always wondered why VP didn't released TW2 Linux as an open beta? Wouldn't it have "lessened" the backlash?
I think after VP realized there is a lot more work to do, they started releasing it as beta before major milestones.
1 Likes, Who?
And there is nothing wrong in attacking a bad product. If we're 2% of the market it still doesn't mean that we need to be treated like gatbage and yet be blamed for not accepting the poor port that we paid money for. It's really childish of them how they try to actually make us feel bad about ourselves.
First of all, we weren't treated like garbage. Developers actually worked on fixing bugs. And secondly, no way it justifies any attacks. Provide constructive criticism, not hatred.
So we get a great promise of a game and than because of a few personal insults from our trolls make them cancel them? How is that not treting our community as garbage...
1 Likes, Who?
So we get a great promise of a game and than because of a few personal insults from our trolls make them cancel them? How is that not treting our community as garbage...
No, I'm not saying any of this is a valid reason for cancelling their Linux efforts. All I'm saying that such attacks are unacceptable.
4 Likes, Who?
I find quite a few things upsetting in the world of Linux gaming.
I really loved "Legend of Grimrock" - It was one of the first decent games I played on Linux (bought it on GOG) about 4 years ago. So happy to be able to play that wonderful game on Linux. And then, the next one - Legend of Grimrock 2 - What's going on, it's not on Linux. Well, I picked it up anyway, and thanks to WINE I was still able to play it on Linux although I would have much preferred a native version. (Devs at Almost Human - fingers crossed, then I can play it again, *properly* .)
And then I look at other titles which have done similarly:
The Witcher 2 - Hurray, it's on Linux. The Witcher 3 - Aww no. There isn't a Linux port.
The Banner Saga - cool, a Linux port. The Banner Saga 2 - No Linux port.
Shadow Warrior (2013) - Played it on Linux recently. Shadow Warrior 2 - It should be coming to Linux eventually, but nothing so far, sniffle.
Codemaster's F1 2015 came to Linux. F1 2016 - No Linux port ( due to not enough interest in the 2015 game).
Divinity: Original Sin - A Linux Port. Divinity: Original Sin 2 - No Linux port.
Then there are the games that have surprised me:
Serious Sam HD One, Two - Coming to Linux with Vulkan - Thanks to Croteam's new Fusion system.
Overlord I and II - Old Windows games - surprisingly given Linux ports.
Rocket League - The developers kept their word - It took a while, but we got one of the biggest games natively last year.
Dragon's Lair - Another big surprise - Given a Linux native port.
X-Blades - Another late Linux port.
Anyway, without Witcher 3, I have over 600 *Linux* games in my Steam library and over 100 Linux games in my GOG library. Eventually, I might get around to playing them all ;)
I really loved "Legend of Grimrock" - It was one of the first decent games I played on Linux (bought it on GOG) about 4 years ago. So happy to be able to play that wonderful game on Linux. And then, the next one - Legend of Grimrock 2 - What's going on, it's not on Linux. Well, I picked it up anyway, and thanks to WINE I was still able to play it on Linux although I would have much preferred a native version. (Devs at Almost Human - fingers crossed, then I can play it again, *properly* .)
And then I look at other titles which have done similarly:
The Witcher 2 - Hurray, it's on Linux. The Witcher 3 - Aww no. There isn't a Linux port.
The Banner Saga - cool, a Linux port. The Banner Saga 2 - No Linux port.
Shadow Warrior (2013) - Played it on Linux recently. Shadow Warrior 2 - It should be coming to Linux eventually, but nothing so far, sniffle.
Codemaster's F1 2015 came to Linux. F1 2016 - No Linux port ( due to not enough interest in the 2015 game).
Divinity: Original Sin - A Linux Port. Divinity: Original Sin 2 - No Linux port.
Then there are the games that have surprised me:
Serious Sam HD One, Two - Coming to Linux with Vulkan - Thanks to Croteam's new Fusion system.
Overlord I and II - Old Windows games - surprisingly given Linux ports.
Rocket League - The developers kept their word - It took a while, but we got one of the biggest games natively last year.
Dragon's Lair - Another big surprise - Given a Linux native port.
X-Blades - Another late Linux port.
Anyway, without Witcher 3, I have over 600 *Linux* games in my Steam library and over 100 Linux games in my GOG library. Eventually, I might get around to playing them all ;)
8 Likes, Who?
So we get a great promise of a game and than because of a few personal insults from our trolls make them cancel them? How is that not treting our community as garbage...
No, I'm not saying any of this is a valid reason for cancelling their Linux efforts. All I'm saying that such attacks are unacceptable.
Yeah I completely agree, I'm a very patient man, it's just that I think that they're trying to actually make us feel bad about ourselves eventhough it's not only us to blame for the whole situation. They refuse to take any responsibility at all for the cancelling of promised ports and yet they try to make US feel bad because a few people insulted them :/
2 Likes, Who?
I'd say damage to their reputation for not keeping their word is worse, than damage from some angry jerks who attacked initially poor Linux port.I still want to see Witcher 1 & 3 on Linux, so if anyone from CDProjekt is watching, ignore the morons & sort out the ports so WE can buy them.
I'm somewhat surprised, this wishlist only got 10,400+ votes. There should be way more interested Linux gamers. Then you can show to CDPR - "See? A lot of people want it.".
And this one needs a big boost too.
Last edited by Shmerl on 3 July 2017 at 11:06 pm UTC
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My memory is blurred but I remember reading that TW2 was a first try for the eon wrapper and that TW2 was a "work in progress".
It was our first Linux release.
I always wondered why VP didn't released TW2 Linux as an open beta? Wouldn't it have "lessened" the backlash?
Not up to VP. Most publishers would never agree to an open beta, certainly not before a product's main release.
It is really insulting to me that it seems that VP accuses us of the whole scandal eventhough 95% of the community didn't cooperate in the backlash... I don't think it's exactly fair not to keep the promises but we're used to canceling of majority of great games that are supposed to come to linux so no big deal :)
And update: I truly din't know how many users there were in the backlash, but no matter what they don't represent our whole community...
Last edited by MaCroX95 on 3 July 2017 at 11:09 pm UTC
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You have no idea of the scale of the backlash if you think it was "5 trolls"
I suppose part of the problem is very high initial expectation. TW2 itself is a high quality game, so that possibly magnified the reaction of those who got angry at the initial bad performance. It's partially a management failure on CDPR part, to predict such outcome. Imagine them releasing TW3 for Windows with bad performance. The outrage would be much worse than one with TW2 for Linux.
Last edited by Shmerl on 3 July 2017 at 11:11 pm UTC
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It is really insulting to me that it seems that VP accuses us of the whole scandal even though 95% of the community didn't cooperate in the backlash... I don't think it's exactly fair not to keep the promises but we're used to canceling of majority of great games that are supposed to come to linux so no big deal :)
VP haven't accused you or the Linux community of anything...
Than the cancelling of the port was more of a financial decision?
Last edited by MaCroX95 on 3 July 2017 at 11:11 pm UTC
0 Likes
Seriously? Makes me wonder why there are any Windows games out there. I'd rather say the port didn't really pay off (because it was a released buggy and too early) and the name-calling was just the icing on the cake, or maybe even not that.
2 Likes, Who?
Seriously? Makes me wonder why there are any Windows games out there. I'd rather say the port didn't really pay off (because it was a released buggy and too early) and the name-calling was just the icing on the cake, or maybe even not that.
I don't think the port was any more problematic than many others. After several iterations it became decent. So why couldn't it pay off?
0 Likes
Why are you bringing VP into it at all ? I've given my personal - PERSONAL - opinion as to why CDPR cancelled the Witcher 3 port. VP haven't said any thing at all.
Did CDPR approach VP about TW3 for Linux at all, or it didn't even come to that?
0 Likes
Than the cancelling of the port was more of an financial decision?
Why are you bringing VP into it at all ? I've given my personal - PERSONAL - opinion as to why CDPR cancelled the Witcher 3 port. VP haven't said any thing at all. I haven't spoken on behalf of VP.
Stop trying to shit stir.
I'm not accusing VP sir, sorry if it seems this way, I was refering to whoever was in charge of the withdrawal of the port. And thanks for the answers :)
0 Likes
the backlash at the time was 100% justified
People emailing me personally saying they hoped i would fucking die was justified?
The answer is: of course not. Consider this is not a hivemind or an organized group. I understand you have hard feelings towards a group you now perceive as hostile but also mind that the people who hurt you is just an small fraction of the people that is part of the linux users that also play games. You cannot control a crowd the same way an individual that happens to be part of that crows but that is not participating in that bad behaviour cannot control what other people does.
2 Likes, Who?
Metallinatus Jul 3, 2017
Bottom line is those people going apes on developers need to be better politicians, need to know better how to deal with situations for their and our own good, if you want something you don't name call and threat people until you get what you want, that is not how the world works, and these are all stuff your parents should have taught you years ago....
3 Likes, Who?
Just want to put it out there for everyone pointing out that windows/console game backlash for shitty releases has been even worse: "The other guys are even worse" is not an acceptable excuse for shitty behaviour. Ever.
I do think putting out buggy games and calling it a finished product is really shitty behaviour, which seems to have become the norm regardless of platform these days. Still not an excuse to be shitty back, especially not to individuals who we can be pretty sure are not responsible, even if windows/console M.E. Andromeda players doxes some poor animator; still doesn't mean we should excuse shitty behaviour of any kind from our own community.
What you can do is send in bug reports. Write a negative but respectful review on steam. And the obvious one, just stop buying games before their reviews come out.
Last edited by AlveKatt on 3 July 2017 at 11:24 pm UTC
I do think putting out buggy games and calling it a finished product is really shitty behaviour, which seems to have become the norm regardless of platform these days. Still not an excuse to be shitty back, especially not to individuals who we can be pretty sure are not responsible, even if windows/console M.E. Andromeda players doxes some poor animator; still doesn't mean we should excuse shitty behaviour of any kind from our own community.
What you can do is send in bug reports. Write a negative but respectful review on steam. And the obvious one, just stop buying games before their reviews come out.
Last edited by AlveKatt on 3 July 2017 at 11:24 pm UTC
6 Likes, Who?
I find quite a few things upsetting in the world of Linux gaming.
I really loved "Legend of Grimrock" - It was one of the first decent games I played on Linux (bought it on GOG) about 4 years ago. So happy to be able to play that wonderful game on Linux. And then, the next one - Legend of Grimrock 2 - What's going on, it's not on Linux. Well, I picked it up anyway, and thanks to WINE I was still able to play it on Linux although I would have much preferred a native version. (Devs at Almost Human - fingers crossed, then I can play it again, *properly* .)
And then I look at other titles which have done similarly:
The Witcher 2 - Hurray, it's on Linux. The Witcher 3 - Aww no. There isn't a Linux port.
The Banner Saga - cool, a Linux port. The Banner Saga 2 - No Linux port.
Shadow Warrior (2013) - Played it on Linux recently. Shadow Warrior 2 - It should be coming to Linux eventually, but nothing so far, sniffle.
Codemaster's F1 2015 came to Linux. F1 2016 - No Linux port ( due to not enough interest in the 2015 game).
Divinity: Original Sin - A Linux Port. Divinity: Original Sin 2 - No Linux port.
That's an interesting observation really.
Kinda sad we lose the support throughout a series.
0 Likes
They already did - on Linux. Thats the point.
The point is that it doesn't make sense. They get backlashes all the time, and they didn't shut down Windows development. Because they get money. Apparently their either weren't profitable with Linux port, or something else affects it.
Their own report to sharehodlers however highlighted TW2 for Linux as a success. I doubt they'll do it if it was losing money for them.
Last edited by Shmerl on 3 July 2017 at 11:42 pm UTC
3 Likes, Who?
So being minority is equal to accepting consequences?
Let's put it with an example : At X country there are two kind of people.
One with the white skin ( i'm not a racist) others with black skins.
Black skins are most of that X country , while white skins are minorities.
They go for shopping at a mall. But this mall has a policy : Black skins can complain about bad products and mall management can go with it but whenever a white skinned guy complains about a bad product they forbid him to enter this mall ever again.
We are gamers too , we're not different than Windows gamers. Having a small share doesn't mean being treated as second class citizens and expecting that " Linux users should be greatful for that port , even if it is broke "
Why the hell we would do that? If a product is bad we have right to shout that to developers.
Of course , personal attacks are not welcomed but a backslash is pretty normal when a product is not meeting expectations.
No, I never said anything like that. What you describe is racism. CDPR is not interested in how we look or where we're from. They had to decide if they should provide a version of their game for a system with a very small user base. At first they wanted to do so, but then they reconsidered. That is not racism, it's not even OSsism, it's free market. They are not denying us a right to do anything. The product people got so angry about was fixed and works fine now. It seems CDPR just decided, to not repeat the experience..
Criticizing a product is completely ok, but what is so problematic about just staying friendly?
4 Likes, Who?
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