Keith Packard's video from 'LinuxConfAu 2018' talking about Virtual Reality and Linux is up

Quoting: TheSHEEEPQuite honestly, I still see VR as little more than a gimmick.

I can see absolutely no breakthrough for a tech that requires you to have a rather clunky and heavy ...

i just bought a vive at christmas on second hand market (450€ it was for 1 year warranty left) and i dont think its heavy at all. i barely feel it when fighting in VR. just the cables are a mess, but this will be solved in the future.

QuoteAnd don't even get me started on most of the games made specifically for VR. Horrible stuff. Remove the VR aspect from them and what you're left with is games that wouldn't even sell on mobile because of simplicity and bad design.

maybe we have to overthink how games have to be made for VR. Its not done with the same mechanics we are used to. for example i played GORN for hours now and maybe the design is simple but it is a lot of fun, because you hack and slay with your own hands and arms. you would never think, that this game is such fun on old fashioned monitors. But ducking and strafing in real , blocking and hacking too brought me fun for hours (and its a very good exercise too :D )

i didn't tried fallout 4 yet, so i cant compare how fascinating it is in a "real" AAA-Game. Yet i am struggeling to make the Vive work on linux, just to see that there are no games to play in vr right now (everspace works i heared, will test this)

Quoting: Sil_el_moti just bought a vive at christmas on second hand market (450€ it was for 1 year warranty left)

Yeah that sounds about right. It's in that price area here in Norway too, now.

Quoting: Sil_el_motBut ducking and strafing in real , blocking and hacking too brought me fun for hours (and its a very good exercise too :D )

To be honest, that's part of why I want this so bad to succeed. It is the only viable direction where I can see myself actually get some proper exercise of any significant amount. :)


Last edited by Beamboom on 29 January 2018 at 3:26 pm UTC

Quoting: TheSHEEEPQuite honestly, I still see VR as little more than a gimmick.

You apparently have never actually tried VR. I had a chance to do so in a shopping mall and said "Why not?". It was amazing. The games can be as simple or as complex as you like. We see complex games being ported over such as X Rebirth, Doom, Fallout, Skyrim. Then there are fun goofy little games like Rick and Morty or the archery one (Longbow I think?). All in all it is great fun.

As for the price, it is comparable to a new console in the $500 range. Maybe that means it is not for everybody, but then again the $750 full simulation racing wheel and pedals setup is not for everyone either. I can tell you this though: VR is indeed the future. All the big names are signing onto this for both production as well as gaming enterprises.

It's amazing, it's affordable to try, and this is great news about the advances on the Linux side. Give it a shot at a VR arcade before throwing the idea out completely.

Yeah VR games are really different... it's more about presence... most sports are rather simplistic games as well... or take hiking which is "just walking around", yet it can be really enjoyable. VR is getting there and if combined with an awesome computer game, it really is the next level.

However VR on Linux... not sure if that will ever really take off. It is a small niche of a niche and probably stay one in the forsee-able future (unless some big company really pushes for a Linux based VR console of some sort, which is highly unlikely). Thus even optimistically speaking, we will maybe get 20% of an already smaller market of games, which translates to a handful of games. And for that I would not buy a 300-400 euro device...

But maybe WINE will work well enough, or technology like WebVR (now rebranded to WebXR) really takes off.
Anbox (to run Android Daydream/GearVR apps on Linux) could also be a way to emulate mobile VR on a Linux VR headset.

Let's see... I am cautiously optimistic :)

Quoting: Sil_el_motYet i am struggeling to make the Vive work on linux, just to see that there are no games to play in vr right now (everspace works i heared, will test this)

You might be interested in this list we are compiling then: https://steamcommunity.com/app/250820/discussions/5/133257959064016658/

@liamdawe You might want to link this list in your VR articles, just so people know where to look.

If you think VR is "the future", you're probably thinking in the wrong terms. Like theSheep's reply above, thinking that Kinnect would somehow replace controllers. That's not the point of VR at all.

It's more like a steering wheel when you're passionate about driving games. Sure, it's expensive, it's not for everyone and you don't have to have it. But when you drive with a wheel, then go back to a controller, you'll suddenly recognise the latter as the cheap, ineffective let down it is.

Similarly, when you've played certain games/experiences in VR, there's absolutely no way to recapture what made them special WITHOUT the VR element. Longbow without VR is just a low-poly Operation Wolf clone. But in VR, you actually draw the arrows back. You actually lean over the parapet for better angles. The whole thing comes alive.

I don't want this to be the future - I want it to be my present. It's epic.

Also, anyone who naysays against VR should prefix their naysaying with "I've tried it, and I don't think it's the future because...". Because if you haven't tried it, you (literally) don't know what you're talking about.

Quoting: calfretYou apparently have never actually tried VR. ... Give it a shot at a VR arcade before throwing the idea out completely.

I did try it at a VR arcade. Played some zombie shooter with a friend. It was fun for an hour or two - if I had been alone, it would have been even less.
After the initial phase, I could only think about what lame gameplay that game actually had. And of course it had to. No way you could play something more challenging with that headset on, cables around and the weird "controllers" in your hand.
It was really just that - a fun gimmick for a while.

And yes, it was clunky and heavy. At least in contrast to wearing exactly nothing on your head.
You can also completely forget about interacting with the world around you - say, someone wanting to show you something (or simply wanting your attention for other reasons). For that you gotta remove the set, then put it back on, etc.
No amount of technological advancement will solve these issues. There are conceptual flaws.

Quoting: beniwtvIf we take out the "specifically made for VR" games (which I don't think is the best example of VR), there are some really good games for VR out there - Serious Sam / Talos Principle / Everspace for Linux, Lone Echo / Doom 3: BFG Edition with VR Mod / Star Trek Bridge Crew / Fallout 4 / Elite Dangerous for Windows, Resident Evil 7 for Playstation VR, just to name a few.

Of course it works for some games, I'm not denying it is an improvement in some cases.
But, not surprisingly, only for first person games.
Which in itself limits the viability extremely.

Good luck playing in VR something like Europa Universalis, Street Fighter, Factorio, StarCraft, Sonic... the list is endless.
It would take an extreme amount of effort to make non-FP titles even somewhat usable in VR - and the result would still at best be at the same level. You won't see a noticeable increase of immersion when playing a non-FP game in VR. What developer would ever go the extra mile to offer that?

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI can tell you this though: VR is indeed the future. All the big names are signing onto this for both production as well as gaming enterprises.

Amazing. Despite me bearing the name, it is you being the sheep.
You being dragged blindly into some hype that has little to no basis.
All the big names have been signing into this for years. And it went... precisely nowhere. Sure, it spread a little. And it will continue to do so.
But this will at no point reach any spread even close to majority.

"All the big names" always jump at any hype as it could turn out to be profitable.
It is certainly no proof of anything except the fact that there is a hype, if you think otherwise you are strangely naive.

Remember when 3D in cinemas was THE THING? And where are we now? A certain portion of movies (mostly action) utilize it, the rest doesn't and of the movies that utilize it, maybe 30% utilize it well. For the rest it was a waste of money to spend the extra cash to see the movie in 3D. And that stuff was praised as THE FUTURE decades ago.
In a few decades from now, the exact same will be VR. An accepted thing, a tool, a gimmick, probably normal to see every now and then but certainly nothing the majority deals with regularly.


Last edited by TheSHEEEP on 29 January 2018 at 1:41 pm UTC

I remember, some years ago, hearing about the Oculus Rift being assembled from off-the-shelf parts, and thought, "AFFORDABLE VR! Yes, please."

Boy, was I mistaken. WAY too expensive for me.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI did try it at a VR arcade. Played some zombie shooter with a friend. It was fun for an hour or two - if I had been alone, it would have been even less.

Sorry, but I don't think that is enough to get a good picture of VR games and it's capabilities.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPBut, not surprisingly, only for first person games.
Which in itself limits the viability extremely.

Good luck playing in VR something like Europa Universalis, Street Fighter, Factorio, StarCraft, Sonic... the list is endless.
It would take an extreme amount of effort to make non-FP titles even somewhat usable in VR - and the result would still at best be at the same level. You won't see a noticeable increase of immersion when playing a non-FP game in VR. What developer would ever go the extra mile to offer that?

Just one I know of the top of my head:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/238280/Legend_of_Dungeon/

Some others I found searching 5 minutes (there are probably others as well):
http://www.playfulcorp.com/#lucky
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1026648920729545/

Look, nobody says you should like VR or get VR, but please make sure you inform yourself about the subject, before calling all gloom and doom.

Quoting: beniwtv

Quoting: TheSHEEEPI did try it at a VR arcade. Played some zombie shooter with a friend. It was fun for an hour or two - if I had been alone, it would have been even less.

Sorry, but I don't think that is enough to get a good picture of VR games and it's capabilities.

Funny, first you make the suggestion, then you say it's not enough.
Grasping for arguments, are we?

I don't need to do or play more than that to see what is going on. As a gamer for over 20 years and a 3D programmer for more than 10, I know more than enough to recognize this whole thing for what it is:
Lots of hype with not-nothing but fairly little substance behind it.

There'll be some games, I can see some use cases in the medicine or military sector. Maybe there'll even be a few movie-like experiences made for it - I mean, besides porn.
An industry of some size will be established around it.

But this is not the hottest thing since cars or the internet. Its use cases are too limited. Too little gain for the consumer for too much effort (and cost, obviously).

Quoting: beniwtv

Quoting: TheSHEEEPWhat developer would ever go the extra mile to offer that?

Just one I know of the top of my head:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/238280/Legend_of_Dungeon/

Some others I found searching 5 minutes (there are probably others as well):
http://www.playfulcorp.com/#lucky
https://www.oculus.com/experiences/rift/1026648920729545/

All of these are good examples for my points, so thank you.
Not one of those games offer better gameplay due to VR - of course not, because they (would) work just the same with a normal monitor. There's a small increase in immersion due to the hardware, but due to the player just looking at the field, that is very, very limited.
Just not enough for all but enthusiast devs to bother with it. I could see it as an interesting tech to play with and implement in a game from the developer perspective - but a worthwhile one? Eh...

Quoting: beniwtvLook, nobody says you should like VR or get VR, but please make sure you inform yourself about the subject, before calling all gloom and doom.

I'm not calling gloom and doom. I'm calling it what it is: A gimmick with limited use cases, too cumbersome, conceptually flawed and expensive all around to ever spread really wide.