OpenGL to be deprecated in the next macOS release, could mean interesting things for Linux gaming

I wonder how long Apple will keep trying to get away with the crap they've been pulling in recent years. First removing every port under the sun from their devices, now removing support for the most widely used graphics APIs... It's like they don't want customers anymore.

Quoting: saclautaaI wonder how long Apple will keep trying to get away with the crap they've been pulling in recent years. First removing every port under the sun from their devices, now removing support for the most widely used graphics APIs... It's like they don't want customers anymore.

They want customers. They want customers who use peripherals that only plug into apple devices. They want customers that use programs runnable only through apple APIs. They want customers who cannot migrate away to competition.

Quoting: GustyGhost

Quoting: saclautaaI wonder how long Apple will keep trying to get away with the crap they've been pulling in recent years. First removing every port under the sun from their devices, now removing support for the most widely used graphics APIs... It's like they don't want customers anymore.

They want customers. They want customers who use peripherals that only plug into apple devices. They want customers that use programs runnable only through apple APIs. They want customers who cannot migrate away to competition.

True, hopefully people begin to see through their bullshit and migrate before it's too late.

Quoting: saclautaa

Quoting: GustyGhost

Quoting: saclautaaI wonder how long Apple will keep trying to get away with the crap they've been pulling in recent years. First removing every port under the sun from their devices, now removing support for the most widely used graphics APIs... It's like they don't want customers anymore.

They want customers. They want customers who use peripherals that only plug into apple devices. They want customers that use programs runnable only through apple APIs. They want customers who cannot migrate away to competition.

True, hopefully people begin to see through their bullshit and migrate before it's too late.

I would like to agree with you, but I'm too pessimistic... It's pretty the same with the Microsoft/Windows environment and I only see few people drop that for Linux. The majority still stay on it... I think most of people won't see it before it's too late, unfortunately. :(

Are all the "creative applications" companies going to rewrite their softwares for Metal? Am I wrong when I say that these are relying on OpenGL still? I must admit that my knowledge might be dated on the subject, but it seems like a bold move from Apple... Or they are just aiming to completely axe the MacBook line and eventually concentrate on their mobile division only (crazy rumor I read somewhere)...

Edit: At some point the walls of the garden are going to get so high that the sun won't be able to shed light on the apple tree and it will go barren. :)


Last edited by Mohandevir on 8 June 2018 at 8:23 pm UTC

Quoting: MohandevirOr they are just aiming to completely axe the MacBook line and eventually concentrate on their mobile division only (crazy rumor I read somewhere)...

I'm not sure whether there's anything official to corroborate this, but since 2015-2016 'insiders' have been reporting that there isn't a dedicated 'macOS' team at Apple anymore; it's basically a side-project for the iOS team.

See, e.g.:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-20/how-apple-alienated-mac-loyalists
https://www.theverge.com/2016/12/21/14037686/apple-macbook-macos-focus-mobile-features-ios
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/12/report-apples-mac-team-is-getting-a-lot-less-attention-than-before/

Coupled with various rumors that they might switch to an ARM variant (designed at least partly in-house) on the desktop machines, I don't think it's too crazy to predict that the Mac's future is to become a beefier ipad.

I'm not sure what that entails exactly, but I don't think they'll let go of their 'content creator' customers *entirely* (despite having given them 'the finger' repeatedly over the past decade). For all we know, Adobe might be preparing not just for the transition to Metal, but also to ARM. Though whatever the Mac line ends up turning into, their absurd 'forced obsolescence' policy will have to change.

Just checked up on my favorite game engine, Löve. Here is what one of the devs has to say: https://love2d.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=85314#p221311
In short: it has been soft-deprecated for years, he expects it to work for a couple more years and there are plans for a metal backend which will in part also help the development of a Vulkan or DX12 backend since they have a similar architecture.
That's a very pragmatic approach. We probably all hope for Vulkan everywhere rather than three similar yet different APIs, but there is little we can do other than to make Vulkan better.

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: elmapulwhy would you develop for an platform with 10.000 users when you can develop for an platform like ps4 with 70 millions of users?

Why you think making a game for AtariVCS is making a game for only 10.000 users when Atari uses Linux?? When you make a game for Linux you're making a game for AtariVCS.

the issue is, AtariVCS will not change our marketshare from 1% to 2%,3% and so on, so its irrelevant as an product.

Quoting: [email protected]

Quoting: elmapuli hate to say that, but that decision will have an negative effect on us, and positive on then.

iOS is a "money making machine" so many game engines support metal or will support metal so they can be used to make iOS apps, now that apple will ditch support for iOS its more likely that more games will support metal than they will keep suporting openGL.

we have an lower marketshare, most big companies will ditch support for linux insteda of mac.

apple is the richest tech company, even if some companies dont want to support then, they can afford to purchase some support including exclusive games.

The same can be said for Android which in fact is a bigger pie than iOS alone.

Most Android implementations ship with some form of OpenGL and more modern, higher end ones also ship with Vulkan too.

android indeed has an highter marketshare, but most of the money comes from the iOS market.
making money for iOS is more profitable than for android unfourtunatelly.

Quoting: elmapulandroid indeed has an highter marketshare, but most of the money comes from the iOS market.
making money for iOS is more profitable than for android unfourtunatelly.

Wait, what? How does that work?! I did a quick google--Android is currently at like six times iOS market share. So like, do iphone users pay six times as much for games, or play six times as many games per capita? Or do the "stores" on Android phones take a cut so massive that game publishers only get 1/6th as much money per game?
None of this seems very plausible. I can see iphone users, probably more prosperous than Android users on average (both individually and considering that wealthier countries buy more iphones), paying and playing somewhat more each. But enough to outweigh the massive difference in numbers? I'm finding that frankly hard to believe.