Note: Multiple updates at the bottom.
Sad news, Facepunch are no longer selling the Linux version of their survival game Rust [Official Site] after removing mentions of Linux support yesterday from their Steam page.
Linux support has been available in Rust since 2013, along with continued support during Early Access and after the official release earlier this year. It was a bit of a surprise that we got an email from a reader, to mention that the Steam store page for Rust was no longer showing the SteamOS/Linux icon or listing it in the system requirements.
Thinking it was a mistake, since nothing was announced, I reached to Facepunch to which they replied with:
Hey dude - yeah we stopped selling Rust for Linux.
I did request more information as to why and will update this article if I receive any further information. To be fair, they haven't had a lot of time to respond again yet, but I feel it's important to get the word out.
It's possible it's due to issues with the Unity game engine, which has suffered some nuisance problems with their Linux support lately. We've gone through black screens, no input in fullscreen and the latest being double-input issues—all issues that have plagued a number of games that use Unity. All of which have been solved in updated versions of Unity though. Still, it has become more of a hassle for developers to support us due to issues like this repeatedly coming up.
To be clear on something though, it might only mean that they're not actively advertising it as a Linux supported game, while still allowing Linux users to buy it and play it—something a few other developers do as well. I highly doubt they would actually remove the Linux version, after it being around for so long.
Really sad about this, we have an active community-run server with plenty of people enjoying themselves on it. Sin has livestreamed plenty of it on our Twitch Channel, purchased skins and all. With all the additions to the game, it was really becoming quite interesting. Even I was also going to be jumping back in soon, so this has me a little down as I did quite enjoy the game as well.
As always, please remain respectful in the comments. Issues like this can become quite heated, but let's not go throwing any insults around. Now is a time to show your support, not have a war of words.
Updates
Garry responded on Twitter and said this:
We stopped selling Rust on Linux because we won't/don't give it the QA support it needs. There are situations where there's a Unity Linux bug that pops up, and we ship with it - because it's the right decision for 99.99% of our players.
And while 60% of Linux users are fine with this, they understand their position in this world, it's probably not the right thing to act like it's fine. So while we're still going to ship Linux updates and keep it up to date.. we're not going to sell it anymore.
Also Linux Community - being abusive, demanding, rude to the few developers actually shipping games to your favourite OS isn't the way to go. It makes me regret ever shipping Linux versions.
I've said it before and I will say it again: Developers are human, people do need to understand that and not resort to throwing insults around right away. Even so, if you sell a game on any platform you should be doing QA on it—there's no excuse for not doing it.
Update #2 - Here's what another developer said on Reddit:
Linux is and will still be supported but the decision to remove Linux from purchase was mainly based on multiple issues in the current Unity version (2018.1.4).
We're currently unable to downgrade to a Unity version which corrects these Linux issues and we're unable to upgrade Unity to 2018.2 due to a number of new issues.
Linux is in a state of limbo in which we're unable to resolve, instead of selling a broken platform we decided to remove it from purchase but still offer it to existing players.
Once Linux is in a working state we'll review the decision.
Hat tip to Basiani for letting us know.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Mblackwell Jul 30, 2018
Anecdotes aren't evidence, but:
Linux users are often able to identify a particular problem including how to reproduce it, and give lots of information (including debug output). It's hard for a developer to ignore, and often due to time constraints there are bugs that get brushed aside (even just temporarily) or overlooked... and when a subset of your users are throwing everything you need to potentially solve a bug in your direction it can make the developer appear badly when they do said brushing off (and generally because of the work put in, other people are able to verify and it becomes a very loud voice).
There are just as many QA requests from Windows users, more in terms of volume, but a lot of the users can't actually identify anything that's going on. They often either can't tell you or don't tell you very much about their system (even if they built it themselves), don't have solid reproduction steps, can't find the log files even if you point them in the right direction (and won't respond to simple developer requests for pieces of information), and the bug report itself is often really vague. If the problem is intermittent (EG: restarting each time fixes it) then users will give up and be satisfied.
It's really easy for a developer to ignore this as a bunch of background noise, unlike with Linux QA requests.
Not to say every Linux user is perfect and can do all of that, but that seems to generally be the case (and even when they can't it's often just a few simple commands in the console to get the information).
Also if you only ever develop on one platform it can be hard for you yourself to even know what users are saying to you. Windows and Linux aren't exactly similar. The issues may completely be the same on both platforms, but when seeing output and information from a Linux user the developer may have zero idea what to do with it/what it means.
Linux users are often able to identify a particular problem including how to reproduce it, and give lots of information (including debug output). It's hard for a developer to ignore, and often due to time constraints there are bugs that get brushed aside (even just temporarily) or overlooked... and when a subset of your users are throwing everything you need to potentially solve a bug in your direction it can make the developer appear badly when they do said brushing off (and generally because of the work put in, other people are able to verify and it becomes a very loud voice).
There are just as many QA requests from Windows users, more in terms of volume, but a lot of the users can't actually identify anything that's going on. They often either can't tell you or don't tell you very much about their system (even if they built it themselves), don't have solid reproduction steps, can't find the log files even if you point them in the right direction (and won't respond to simple developer requests for pieces of information), and the bug report itself is often really vague. If the problem is intermittent (EG: restarting each time fixes it) then users will give up and be satisfied.
It's really easy for a developer to ignore this as a bunch of background noise, unlike with Linux QA requests.
Not to say every Linux user is perfect and can do all of that, but that seems to generally be the case (and even when they can't it's often just a few simple commands in the console to get the information).
Also if you only ever develop on one platform it can be hard for you yourself to even know what users are saying to you. Windows and Linux aren't exactly similar. The issues may completely be the same on both platforms, but when seeing output and information from a Linux user the developer may have zero idea what to do with it/what it means.
4 Likes, Who?
Shoving away the touchy-feely aspect of this situation, this is exactly what should happen from the very beginning with every Linux game - whenever it's not shippable, it's not being shipped. Garry Newman, a guy whom I usually don't like very much, did a very responsible thing. It's not white and black, though. Maybe it would be even more responsible to avoid announcing Linux support in the first place since now he can't polish it because it doesn't concern 99.99% of Facepunch customers? It's not the issue of "Unity introduced bugs", it's the issue of "we didn't test on Linux with new engine version before investing time in other platforms", or worse, "we test on Linux and it didn't work but we released it anyway".
Above said, having an audacity to say we should know our place and most of us "understand their position in this world", that he felt abused by Linux users demanding equal treatment - this is what's wrong with the world nowadays. Nobody should demand equal treatment. Nobody's a 2nd class citizen. Treating somebody as one is the definition of abuse. He chose to release his games for Linux, got extra attention from Valve, from Steam users, from media, only to finally admit it's not something he knows how to support. It's admirable to admit own mistakes. Being salty because people defend themselves when your mistakes harm them is not.
Above said, having an audacity to say we should know our place and most of us "understand their position in this world", that he felt abused by Linux users demanding equal treatment - this is what's wrong with the world nowadays. Nobody should demand equal treatment. Nobody's a 2nd class citizen. Treating somebody as one is the definition of abuse. He chose to release his games for Linux, got extra attention from Valve, from Steam users, from media, only to finally admit it's not something he knows how to support. It's admirable to admit own mistakes. Being salty because people defend themselves when your mistakes harm them is not.
4 Likes, Who?
TheLinuxPleb Jul 31, 2018
To me it looks like the devs are very sensitive if they can't handle internet community. Maybe they should grow stronger????
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: F.UltraThere is nothing toxic with that, second class citizen in computer speak only means that it's a lower priority, it's not a derogatory term.
Lower priority is a derogatory term.
Quoting: liamdaweQuoteI am personally disappointed in Liam Dawe for his statements against those that have been victimized by Garry over a number of years.No one has been "victimized", do you even understand the meaning of that word? No one has been singled out and Facepunch aren't being cruel.
Really? The whole platform has been singled out and has been mistreated for years. Three years of no QA?
Quoting: dictionary.comcruel /krʊəl/ adjective
1. wilfully causing pain or suffering to others, or feeling no concern about it.
Last edited by cprn on 31 July 2018 at 9:32 am UTC
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I requested a refund. I hope I get it. Its fine to drop support, but you should also refund your customers.
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Quoting: liamdawe@mention
OOT: Can you add a new action on GoL user profiles to follow them? Some readers have interesting points of view. I'd like to be notified when they post new comments.
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Quoting: cprnWill look into it.Quoting: liamdawe@mention
OOT: Can you add a new action on GoL user profiles to follow them? Some readers have interesting points of view. I'd like to be notified when they post new comments.
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: cprnPain and suffering? Because a video game isn't getting proper support? Really?Quoting: F.UltraThere is nothing toxic with that, second class citizen in computer speak only means that it's a lower priority, it's not a derogatory term.
Lower priority is a derogatory term.
Quoting: liamdaweQuoteI am personally disappointed in Liam Dawe for his statements against those that have been victimized by Garry over a number of years.No one has been "victimized", do you even understand the meaning of that word? No one has been singled out and Facepunch aren't being cruel.
Really? The whole platform has been singled out and has been mistreated for years. Three years of no QA?
Quoting: dictionary.comcruel /krʊəl/ adjective
1. wilfully causing pain or suffering to others, or feeling no concern about it.
3 Likes, Who?
Quoting: SalvatosPain and suffering? Because a video game isn't getting proper support? Really?
Well, I did suffer a bug and went through a pain of downgrading my Nvidia driver because of their lack of concern for testing. ;) Who said it has to be physical?
All I did in that post is shown definitions relay on the point of view and the literal treatment of words so there's no point picking holes in what somebody said when the general understanding is enough. Besides, I made part about concern bold for a reason. Don't focus on the small print.
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Quoting: cprnExcuse me for being anal-retentive about definitions, but it's part of my job. If you only care about the bold part, the word you're looking for may be indifferent or uncaring. You can't just take out the part about causing pain and suffering and say it still applies. And while I'm not arguing that suffering must be physical, I certainly reckon that the situation at hand has little chance of causing any level of distress to anyone.Quoting: SalvatosPain and suffering? Because a video game isn't getting proper support? Really?
Well, I did suffer a bug and went through a pain of downgrading my Nvidia driver because of their lack of concern for testing. ;) Who said it has to be physical?
All I did in that post is shown definitions relay on the point of view and the literal treatment of words so there's no point picking holes in what somebody said when the general understanding is enough. Besides, I made part about concern bold for a reason. Don't focus on the small print.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: cprnQuoting: SalvatosPain and suffering? Because a video game isn't getting proper support? Really?
Well, I did suffer a bug and went through a pain of downgrading my Nvidia driver because of their lack of concern for testing. ;) Who said it has to be physical?
My distro doesn't use the latest bleeding edge stuff and I suffered none of the issues people report despite using GNOME and NVIDIA I never suffered from double input or crashes/black screen/whatever, so can you really put the full blame on the developers like some have been doing(even if the developer can be a dick)?
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VoxelForge Aug 1, 2018
QuoteAlso Linux Community - being abusive, demanding, rude to the few developers actually shipping games to your favourite OS isn't the way to go. It makes me regret ever shipping Linux versions.Very condescending comments from Garry. I have been in games development and content creation for years and one thing you learn quick, that I know Garry is aware of, is that there is always a rude, outspoken minority that does not represent the community.
Quotethey understand their position in this worldAnd as a developer, he knew as well. Any developer worth their salt should know the challenges of supporting a platform as well as that platform's market share. If facing these challenges wasn't something he was prepared to do, he shouldn't have supported Linux in the first place.
I certainly don't condone whatever hate he has received for this, but I disagree more the passive-aggressive tone he took with the entire Linux community. I'm glad I didn't spend any money on this game.
Spoiler, click me
Yes. I made an account to complain about Garry. Hi everyone.
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Quoting: SalvatosQuoting: cprnWell, I did suffer a bug and went through a pain of downgrading my Nvidia driver because of their lack of concern for testing. ;) Who said it has to be physical? [...]Excuse me for being anal-retentive about definitions, but it's part of my job. If you only care about the bold part, the word you're looking for may be indifferent or uncaring. You can't just take out the part about causing pain and suffering and say it still applies. And while I'm not arguing that suffering must be physical, I certainly reckon that the situation at hand has little chance of causing any level of distress to anyone.
Well, the definition includes "feeling no concern" about somebody's "pain and suffering" and as the two latter are subjective and the lack of concern about them can be guessed (by what words imply, as some comments here suggested) I think I could still prove my point but I feel like we're getting further and further away from the subject matter. Yes, you're right, definitions are important and both indifferent and uncaring work well in this context.
Quoting: nitroflowQuoting: cprnMy distro doesn't use the latest bleeding edge stuff and I suffered none of the issues people report despite using GNOME and NVIDIA I never suffered from double input or crashes/black screen/whatever, so can you really put the full blame on the developers like some have been doing(even if the developer can be a dick)?Quoting: SalvatosPain and suffering? Because a video game isn't getting proper support? Really?Well, I did [...] went through a pain of downgrading my Nvidia driver [...]
Yes, users are supposed to use a supported environment and that includes driver version, however yes, I do blame the developer entirely because it's their lack of skill (or involvement) that's the reason the supported environment isn't specified and that no environment (at all) was tested by anyone else but the community (no proper QA, man). Also, Nvidia developers released a workaround that didn't find its way in the game (and all they had to do is add a freaking environment variable in their starting script). Also, as mentioned by other developers, a bug in the driver is in 99% of cases a bug in your code because you didn't read your renderer specification (was it OpenGL, Vulkan or DirectX, no difference) and as Facepunch uses Unity and the cause of the problem is known they could have disabled whatever feature of Unity caused it and rebuild for Linux. It's not the case of "there's nothing we can do", it's the case of "we'll do nothing and blame everyone else". That's the major criticism that I (and I think everyone here) have towards Mr Garry Newman's attitude.
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Quoting: cprnQuoting: nitroflowQuoting: cprnMy distro doesn't use the latest bleeding edge stuff and I suffered none of the issues people report despite using GNOME and NVIDIA I never suffered from double input or crashes/black screen/whatever, so can you really put the full blame on the developers like some have been doing(even if the developer can be a dick)?Quoting: SalvatosPain and suffering? Because a video game isn't getting proper support? Really?Well, I did [...] went through a pain of downgrading my Nvidia driver [...]
Yes, users are supposed to use a supported environment and that includes driver version, however yes, I do blame the developer entirely because it's their lack of skill (or involvement) that's the reason the supported environment isn't specified and that no environment (at all) was tested by anyone else but the community (no proper QA, man). Also, Nvidia developers released a workaround that didn't find its way in the game (and all they had to do is add a freaking environment variable in their starting script). Also, as mentioned by other developers, a bug in the driver is in 99% of cases a bug in your code because you didn't read your renderer specification (was it OpenGL, Vulkan or DirectX, no difference) and as Facepunch uses Unity and the cause of the problem is known they could have disabled whatever feature of Unity caused it and rebuild for Linux. It's not the case of "there's nothing we can do", it's the case of "we'll do nothing and blame everyone else". That's the major criticism that I (and I think everyone here) have towards Mr Garry Newman's attitude.
Yes, I fully agree with you, which is why it's a good thing that they've dropped support.
If you don't care for a specific segment of your customer base and can't be arsed to do any kind of QA, better drop support than keep misleading people. As for the existing linux player base nothing changes really since they never bothered to provide any kind of QA to begin with.
2 Likes, Who?
Current version of Unity?!? Since when did Rust become a stable game?
Update after update Linux users chew their nails in hope for the game to even start.
That sounds like an excuse.
Regret buying the game.
Facepunch (according to their website) have more abandoned projects than finished/under development and prototypes combined so yeah, I’d say there’s more to it than just “Unity is broken for Linux”.
I could be wrong but I think there’s more to it.
Meanwhile, Facepunch Studios is on my black list.
Last edited by joaojotta on 1 August 2018 at 11:08 pm UTC
Update after update Linux users chew their nails in hope for the game to even start.
That sounds like an excuse.
Regret buying the game.
Facepunch (according to their website) have more abandoned projects than finished/under development and prototypes combined so yeah, I’d say there’s more to it than just “Unity is broken for Linux”.
I could be wrong but I think there’s more to it.
Meanwhile, Facepunch Studios is on my black list.
Last edited by joaojotta on 1 August 2018 at 11:08 pm UTC
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Mountain Man Aug 1, 2018
Quoting: GuestQuoting: Mountain ManAnother scam from a scam developer. I knew this game was a bad bet when they blew through their initial Kickstarter and Early Access funds in two-years with nothing to show for it and then asked customers to double-down with a second donation so they could start again from scratch. Anybody with any sense will stay far away from this trash.
How exactly is it a scam ? They have simply discontinued Linux support.. but they havent taken away the existing Linux builds.
Or are you just throwing abuse at the developer, which um.. is exactly what he's complained about?
How is pulling support for a platform that people have paid good money for not a scam? Whatever "abuse" he has received for his history of unethical business practices is fully deserved.
1 Likes, Who?
Mountain Man Aug 1, 2018
Quoting: F.UltraGary is a Windows guy, he codes on Windows and he uses only Windows. So when he sees toxic comments from Windows people he is just not seeing it but then the same comes from a Linux user then it hits his brain with "well look at that, another toxic Linux luser...".This is known as confirmation bias.
Last edited by Mountain Man on 1 August 2018 at 11:31 pm UTC
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Quoting: Mountain ManEvery game stops getting support at some point, though. There's nothing dishonest about it. Considering this is an online game (if I'm not mistaken), I'm pretty confident their terms of service state something to the effect that they are not liable for the availability of the service at any given moment or for any specific duration. That's an inherent risk/finality to any kind of software that doesn't run fully on your own machine.Quoting: GuestQuoting: Mountain ManAnother scam from a scam developer. I knew this game was a bad bet when they blew through their initial Kickstarter and Early Access funds in two-years with nothing to show for it and then asked customers to double-down with a second donation so they could start again from scratch. Anybody with any sense will stay far away from this trash.
How exactly is it a scam ? They have simply discontinued Linux support.. but they havent taken away the existing Linux builds.
Or are you just throwing abuse at the developer, which um.. is exactly what he's complained about?
How is pulling support for a platform that people have paid good money for not a scam? Whatever "abuse" he has received for his history of unethical business practices is fully deserved.
0 Likes
Mountain Man Aug 2, 2018
Quoting: SalvatosSure, he's covered legally. Doesn't make it honest or ethical.Quoting: Mountain ManEvery game stops getting support at some point, though. There's nothing dishonest about it. Considering this is an online game (if I'm not mistaken), I'm pretty confident their terms of service state something to the effect that they are not liable for the availability of the service at any given moment or for any specific duration. That's an inherent risk/finality to any kind of software that doesn't run fully on your own machine.Quoting: GuestQuoting: Mountain ManAnother scam from a scam developer. I knew this game was a bad bet when they blew through their initial Kickstarter and Early Access funds in two-years with nothing to show for it and then asked customers to double-down with a second donation so they could start again from scratch. Anybody with any sense will stay far away from this trash.
How exactly is it a scam ? They have simply discontinued Linux support.. but they havent taken away the existing Linux builds.
Or are you just throwing abuse at the developer, which um.. is exactly what he's complained about?
How is pulling support for a platform that people have paid good money for not a scam? Whatever "abuse" he has received for his history of unethical business practices is fully deserved.
2 Likes, Who?
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