SC Controller driver and UI version 0.4.5 is out, last release for a while

And that last comment of yours is totally not trolling ...
Seriously just read yourself back here . Kindly "an evil non binary" ...

There may have been a bit of trolling in there for sure :p

Kind of ranty lately because of dealing with a crazy woman, and being called a piece if crap for something they know was being worked on and agreed to is always awesome. "Oh hey, I am going to do this that affects you" "Okay, whatever." (Almost a year later) "By the way, it is now time." "Do you hate me that much?" Uhm... how did you NOT see this coming?

And that last comment of yours is totally not trolling ...
Seriously just read yourself back here . Kindly "an evil non binary" ...

There may have been a bit of trolling in there for sure :p

Maybe ? No not maybe ...
Or let me give you an example that's gonna make you understand how mucch my situation is nothing like a "deeply held belief" as you tried to picture it.
I'm hormonaly intersexual what does that mean ? Well it means that when it comes to crafting the cocktail of hormones that powers my body and send all kinds of messages to it, my body decided to never commit to fully male nor fully female. Which leads to me having functionnal lactating boobs on my chest while still having them look more male than female , and having all the appearance of a male (and the genitals that goes with it). Sounds good right ? After all the only moment it starts to be a problem is in the bedroom right ? That's truly the only moment where an explanation is gonna be needed right ?

No not right because that very same undecided cocktail of hormones leads ME to sometimes use feminine forms while talking about me without even thinking about it twice. It doesn't bother me at all I think nothing of it because again that's just my own cerebral chemistry I can't do jack shit about it. On the other hand boy oh boy does it bothers just about ANY other cis gendered person (male or female) , and that is the real problem yes it is frustrating and dismaying to you that my brain chemistry feels like looping around not taking a fucking pick already , but guess what it's a YOU problem not a ME problem.

You personnaly slaapliedje and others here have been respectful so far and that's yes mainly due to English being a bit less anal about feminine and masculine forms unlike say French or Spanish. So yes everybody has been all right ... over here .. in a moderated forum ... with oversight ... But I have met with my fair share of downright agressive and rabid fanatical borderline religious nut cases wanting to torch me dead yes even in conventions dedicated to FLOSS.
Thankfully most of the FLOSS communities of my region of France have historically been sheltered in buildings of LGBT activity groups so I always had back up when needed.

There was in that very thread two commentators that downright refused to gender Carolyne properly and if you know anything about gender dysphoria and the damages it does to people having gender dysphoria to be misgendered you wouldn't be so flippant.

So again I renew do we need a CoC ? Yes my day to day life is constant testimony about how much we need one.
The one we have right now ? Fuck no that template CoC is way too vague way too exploitable and we need to adress that before somebody starts to play dumb with the wording.

And if you felt like all the first part was "TMI" well then maybe sometimes "ignorance is bliss, and blind courtesy is the mother of all comfort" (yes I just went on quoting Oscar Wilde on your ass ... )


Last edited by TheSyldat on 28 September 2018 at 8:09 am UTC

So again I renew do we need a CoC ? Yes my day to day life is constant testimony about how much we need one.
The one we have right now ? Fuck no that template CoC is way too vague way too exploitable and we need to adress that before somebody starts to play dumb with the wording.

I'll paraphrase my previous reply: I seriously think this CoC—despite not going to much detail—gives some definition as to what constitutes disruptive behaviour and is thus better than nothing at all.

I liked their previous "Be excellent to each other", but sadly people pick and choose who that applies to. This document makes it clear that it applies to everyone. It gives examples of abuse and harassment, but lets the people in charge (note, people in plural) use their judgment. Leeway is good in this case, because otherwise you'd need to list every possible infraction like in criminal law to plug any loopholes, and that's an endless and thankless task. We'll just have to put our trust in the integrity of the board until they prove to be lacking.

I know you're invested for obvious reasons, but please don't make this black and white. Something is definitely better than nothing, and this document does not make it harder for you or anyone else to contribute to the Linux kernel. Whatever misgivings you have about the specifics can and should be discussed in detail, but this requires diplomacy, not warfare.



Off topic: I personally know a shy, intelligent young girl with similar hormonal and genetic traits as you describe. I say similar, not same because in her case the feminine always overrode the masculine, but the cause (if that's the right word) was determined by doctors to be physiological and chemical, not psychological like slaapliedje would assume. As if that would make a difference. In any case, her personality made her dutifully try her best to be a boy with all that it entails, quite successfully it seems, but when she came of age recently, her parents allowed her to change her name and stop pretending to be what everyone in her immediate family knew she was not.

In the end, there are many reasons why someone might not fit the mould, most of them valid, and none of them any of my damn business. I'm a straight white male with poor social skills, and I might not be able to identify with someone different, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve my respect. Of course, words and actions are what determine your respectability, not your gender or sexuality. Being LGBTQ (if that's the right combo of letters these days) doesn't and shouldn't afford immunity from criticism.


Sorry, another incoherent wall of text. I should probably unsubscribe from this thread now...

So again I renew do we need a CoC ? Yes my day to day life is constant testimony about how much we need one.
The one we have right now ? Fuck no that template CoC is way too vague way too exploitable and we need to adress that before somebody starts to play dumb with the wording.

Being LGBTQ (if that's the right combo of letters these days) doesn't and shouldn't afford immunity from criticism.

It ain't the case and has never been the case in founded on an abrahamic religion cultures down to the point that we legit don't know what it is to never face any criticism at all ...
That's the thing that you seem to forget about . We're the children of a community that is only now gaining some respect which is cool . Problem is our oppressor isn't a mob of people , it's a mob of old ideas and old reflexes that you all have and that you never questionned .

When I quoted Oscar Wilde earlier I truly meant it the same way he meant it . The discomfort is on those who "press the question"

When my brain decided to craft more of the female stuff and I talk about me in feminine form and somebody tries to correct me these days I just say "no you heard me right, please don't correct me again" . And if they "press the question" because it troubles them to be asked to let it fly I tell them what's going in my brain and how far does the hormonal fooling around that my brain performs leads to in great detail , and if they go "wwwoooaaah TMI TMI Dude" I simply answer "well next time just bloody do what you're asked"

I corrected myself when I was a kid and each time it made me feel horrible and lead to depression and self destructive behavior, but now I won't correct myself and let my brain do its thing . And guess what I feel million times better and don't even need pesky pills no more.
When some dudes and gals gets annoyed at being told "well just do what you're told dammit" and they all go "well no need to be so aggressive" I simply answer "oh yeah because it's totes not an intrusion in my intimacy having to explain to you a person that I don't share bed with how the most intimate parts of my mental and sexual gearing works. Its totaly not like posing bare ass naked just so that "you get it" ... Didn't it cross your mind that it was gut wrenching to have to explain that time and again to just about everybody in the room ? So for the last time just don't mention it just roll with it don't correct me and next time a rando tries to do so help me out in making them understand it's better for everyone in the room to not even acknowledge it"


Last edited by TheSyldat on 28 September 2018 at 2:10 pm UTC

Being LGBTQ (if that's the right combo of letters these days) doesn't and shouldn't afford immunity from criticism.

It ain't the case and has never been the case in founded on an abrahamic religion cultures down to the point that we legit don't know what it is to never face any criticism at all ...

I get your point, but that doesn't change the fact that nobody deserves a free pass. And I mean individuals specifically, not communities.

That's the thing that you seem to forget about . We're the children of a community that is only now gaining some respect which is cool . Problem is our oppressor isn't a mob of people , it's a mob of old ideas and old reflexes that you all have and that you never questionned .

No, I didn't forget about that and yes, I did question them obviously. If you meant "you" as in "people who are not part of our community", please be careful with that. It reeks of "us vs. them", or worse "us vs. you".

I think this is just your garden-variety fear of the different that we need to overcome as a species. Not a product of any religion or culture, but often strengthened and legitimized by them.

I think this is just your garden-variety fear of the different that we need to overcome as a species. Not a product of any religion or culture, but often strengthened and legitimized by them.

I'm gonna try real hard to not sound harsh but there is really no way to not be here.

If Abrahamic religious beliefs were not the foul players here (so islam / Judaism / chritianism ) then care to explain how come before the arrival european colonist in most South East Asian countries and cultures that were non muslim being gay or lesbian or bisexual or gender queer didn't phaze anyone and outside of being forced into marrying and having kids (which is a form of homophobia in itself) didn't display any homophobia at all ?
Sorry but I'm not sorry to break it to you if it's news for you but yes Abrahamic religions and Jainism have been hardcore homophobic forces for the better part of two milleniums while , in places where the dominant religions were Ravansi , Budhism , Taoism , Shinto , Shugendo , Kali-mata , Vedist beliefs etc etc all those cultures have long history of queer folk not being erased from their history and being equally loved. Heck China even had an Emperor who was so gay that he couldn't even get hard in front a woman leading the court to accept an adoptive son as the legitimate heir and he married his lover and ruled china as a married man to another man ...

Again when I say you it's an all encompassing everyone who's not LGBTQ yes you don't know what it is like and what it feels like and whether you like it or not sometimes you do and say sucky things, we're not attacking you and if you want to not be yelled at anymore then simply just stop doing what you've been told is wrong. And no I won't stop because yes it is an US versus you situation where you are part of the group that has been the abuser for millenias on end.

Again when I say you it's an all encompassing everyone who's not LGBTQ yes you don't know what it is like and what it feels like and whether you like it or not sometimes you do and say sucky things, we're not attacking you and if you want to not be yelled at anymore then simply just stop doing what you've been told is wrong. And no I won't stop because yes it is an US versus you situation where you are part of the group that has been the abuser for millenias on end.

Okay. I was about to reply to what you wrote before this, but if you're not even talking to me, I guess it's better if I let someone who is your enemy continue this conversation. A little hint though: Unless you can start respecting people until they prove they don't deserve it, you can't hope to be treated any better.

Again when I say you it's an all encompassing everyone who's not LGBTQ yes you don't know what it is like and what it feels like and whether you like it or not sometimes you do and say sucky things, we're not attacking you and if you want to not be yelled at anymore then simply just stop doing what you've been told is wrong. And no I won't stop because yes it is an US versus you situation where you are part of the group that has been the abuser for millenias on end.

Okay. I was about to reply to what you wrote before this, but if you're not even talking to me, I guess it's better if I let someone who is your enemy continue this conversation. A little hint though: Unless you can start respecting people until they prove they don't deserve it, you can't hope to be treated any better.

You just illustrated my previous points exactly with that very comment a knee jerk reaction that everybody have when they are told "if you're not LGBTQ then yes like it or not you're part of an overarching group that has been abuser" and somehow this is us classifying you as "an enemy" . No not an ennemy an abuser there is clear distinct difference but apparently you don't know that there is one ...
So again you illustrate perfectly the "jeez you don't have to get so aggressive" again you're part of a group that has been the aggressor for millenias on end we are defending oursleves from abuse. And your very reaction and your comments illustrate damn well that a lot of you out there are unable to do the bloody difference between abuse and an enemy ...


Last edited by TheSyldat on 28 September 2018 at 3:51 pm UTC

"if you're not LGBTQ then yes like it or not you're part of an overarching group that has been abuser"

You're putting people into a group, a negative one, based on their gender identity. Which is wrong.
Everybody is fully responsible for his/her/whatever actions - and nobody else's.

"if you're not LGBTQ then yes like it or not you're part of an overarching group that has been abuser"

You're putting people into a group, a negative one, based on their gender identity. Which is wrong.
Everybody is fully responsible for his/her/whatever actions - and nobody else's.

Be a part of a group that has been marginalized for millenias and then try to come back to me with that last line. Trust me after merely a week you'll change your tune real quick ...
And again being part of the group that has been the abuser in not antagonizing so much as telling you what's the problem at hand.
And your comment too just illustrated that you guys don't know the bloody difference between an abuser and an enemy ...

I can see both sides. When #metoo was initially happening, it was really hard not to give it the whole "not all men" narrative, because, hey, I'm a man, and #metoo felt like I was being bundled into the abuser category simply because of my sex.

But by saying "not all men", I'm effectively asking affected woman to stop, calm down, and positively re-enforce my ego because I feel attacked by your venting.

And that continues to make me part of the problem! So the irony of saying "not all men" is that you've re-enforced that, yes, in little ways, it really is all men.

On the other hand, we do feel attacked when we're "attacked" for things over which we have no control - sex, skin colour, gender identity, whatever.

It's complex. If you're truly trying to be inclusive and empathetic, I think the best thing you can do for someone in this position, even when you feel attacked yourself, is to say, "I hear you. How can I help?".

And that's hard enough to do in person for someone you truly love, let alone to near-strangers on the internet.

It's complex. If you're truly trying to be inclusive and empathetic, I think the best thing you can do for someone in this position, even when you feel attacked yourself, is to say, "I hear you. How can I help?".

And that's hard enough to do in person for someone you truly love, let alone to near-strangers on the internet.

That I never said the contrary heck that's even why I'm so worried of seeing the CoC being exploited for wrong doings despite being part of the population it's supposed to protect.
And thanks for the help and the very clear and concise rephrasing.
This constant "But I'm not a baddy !" is tiring because like you said and like I have said "guys whether you like it or not it's bigger than JUST you so it's not about you personnaly , it's not a "you personnaly" question but a cultural question"

@TheSyldat, this tribal mindset is very negative. For people to look beyond your gender identity, you will have to do so too. And if you try to make up for past injustice on the group you identify with, by being harsh on other groups, do you think anything good will come off it?

@TheSyldat, this tribal mindset is very negative. For people to look beyond your gender identity, you will have to do so too.

You're missing the point. Many people won't 'look beyond' a gender identity. Ever. Your comment I quoted is pushing 'blame' for this situation back on Syldat, exactly as I described in my earlier post. It's natural to want how to do so, but this isn't something that Syldat has to or even can change, it's everyone else and, since many won't, that's why a CoC can help.

IMHO, it sums up to two easy questions, TheSyldat:
* Do you want people to judge and treat other people (including you) independent of their gender identity?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No
* Are you willing to judge and treat other people independent of their gender identity?
[ ] Yes
[ ] No

Again, this isn't about Syldat, but about other people's reaction. Some of these people won't change.

Again, this isn't about Syldat, but about other people's reaction. Some of these people won't change.

How about letting people talk about what they find interesting? You're free to find something else interesting and talk about that, of course.

I didn't follow the whole thread, but what I wrote about in my last post what what stroke me when I read the last pages of it.


Last edited by Eike on 29 September 2018 at 10:10 am UTC

Again, this isn't about Syldat, but about other people's reaction. Some of these people won't change.

Will these people change if he calls me and the majority of the world's population "abusers"? Maybe it's a language barrier thing, but that's a serious accusation where I come from. Does a gross reduction of the whole of humanity into the abusers and the abused (tribalism) somehow make things better? Because I think it does the opposite. Name calling and harmful stereotyping isn't going to stop name calling and harmful stereotyping.

Kind of ironic, frothing about "christian" values being the problem and then basically basing his argument on the concept of inherited sin. I don't hold every single modern-day Brit responsible for the atrocities committed in the name of the British empire, but somehow I am responsible for the deeds of every single human being ever who has abused someone for having a different gender identity or sexual preferences just because I'm not and could not be a member of the abused.

As Eike said before, I'm responsible for my deeds, and I'll accept some appropriate responsibility for the deeds of those who I can directly influence, but that's it. I can and do make an effort to treat everyone equally, but that has to extend to holding everyone to the same standard as well. Respect has to go both ways.

Syldat is free to tell me what I'm doing wrong, and if he wants an apology for the atrocities committed upon his community throughout human history, sure I'm game (even though apologies from third parties are meaningless). The reason I stopped responding to him is that I simply don't enjoy one-sided conversations with prejudiced and judgmental people.

We are talking? Talk away. Sometimes it's interesting to listen too. You're not though - your two questions to Syldat were "do you" and "are you willing", and I responded to you, about that.

And I responded because I do find this interesting. As a CIS, hetero, middle-aged white male, I'm part of this entire problem and I'd love to see a solution present itself. I just don't think one will present itself if we keep pushing responsibility for that solution on the targets of our own internal biases.

Again, this isn't about Syldat, but about other people's reaction. Some of these people won't change.

Will these people change if he calls me and the majority of the world's population "abusers"? Maybe it's a language barrier thing, but that's a serious accusation where I come from.

Sorry, I honestly don't see where Syldat has done so? You both discussed religious foundation for abuse and bias for a bit, but I have to admit I skimmed most of that. Religion isn't my thing.

But to answer you question, "will they change", no they won't. My support of Syldat on this one point is that even if s/he was fully respectful and polite back as you suggest, they STILL won't change. That's incredibly tiring, knowing that something is so futile and still having to take the moral high ground constantly, while enduring withering personal attacks. And the moment they buckle and respond, THEY are the bad guy.

Hence, CoC should help with that.