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PayPalTower Unite [Steam], a 'community-based virtual world party game' had a Linux version that was left in Beta since 2016 and eventually it broke. They've now removed it in favour of people using Valve's Steam Play.
Back in September, a user asked the developer PixelTail Games to actually remove the Linux version. They didn't do it then, mentioning the fact that they would have to delete the Linux content since you can't pick between Steam Play and a Linux version but things have changed.
In a post on their official forum, they stated that a few months ago they made some changes to their engine, which broke the Linux beta. For them Linux "wasn’t the highest of priority" and so it sat there doing nothing.
In a follow up post, they directly blamed Epic Games stating that "Unfortunately Epic doesn’t really support Linux all that well, as it was their change to the engine that broke it in the first place."—ouch.
I find it interesting, as Steam Play obviously makes it a lot easier for developers to drop support entirely for our small platform. However, in this case they were very clear even from the start of the Linux beta back in 2016, that Linux simply wasn't a priority and it seems it never became one.
What are your thoughts?
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Epic loves to market their engine as multi-platform and Linux-compatible, but it really is true that they don't care about Linux and treat it as a second class citizen. Sad. :'(
14 Likes, Who?
This sort of confirms my previous suspicions about Epic and Unreal. I thought that they neglected Linux support in Unreal Engine as soon as they came up with the idea of competing with Steam Store. Their reasoning being probably: by supporting Linux, we make it easier for Valve to launch the new iteration of Steam Machines, which would make it harder for us to compete, so let's silently abandon it. Same with Fortnite, releasing it for Linux would make it easily installable on Steam Machines.
3 Likes, Who?
To be honest Proton performs so much better than the beta ever did. I've played it for 64 hours with the beta, I know what I'm talking about.
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qptain Nemo Jan 8, 2019
I bought it when it supported Linux, wouldn't have if it didn't or I knew it'll stop, so I'm requesting a refund. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's a huge shame though, it was quite fun when it worked.
Last edited by qptain Nemo on 8 January 2019 at 1:42 pm UTC
It's a huge shame though, it was quite fun when it worked.
Last edited by qptain Nemo on 8 January 2019 at 1:42 pm UTC
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Epic, Fuck You!
Last edited by x_wing on 8 January 2019 at 1:53 pm UTC
Last edited by x_wing on 8 January 2019 at 1:53 pm UTC
10 Likes, Who?
It's quite clear from the beginning that Epic never really cared for Linux support.
They are not against it, if the work is done free but they don't invest into it either.
Just look at the fixes yaakuro did:
https://www.patreon.com/ue4linux
So many things which don't work or aren't ported to Linux.
They are not against it, if the work is done free but they don't invest into it either.
Just look at the fixes yaakuro did:
https://www.patreon.com/ue4linux
So many things which don't work or aren't ported to Linux.
3 Likes, Who?
While I don't fully trust a dev pointing fingers elsewhere without proof, there's been enough evidence of late that this is very likely on Epic. Epic started out ok with proper cross-platform engine support, but it's definitely dropped off since.Every single developer I speak to using Unreal Engine say the same thing, the Linux support has been poor and they've had to spend a lot of time working around engine issues. Too many say this, to blame the game devs. I don't like playing the blame game but I think by now it's clear there are certain issues in Unreal Engine.
I still really don't like the idea of devs relying on Valve's branch of Wine so much, but at the same time it's not like some are left with many realistic options.
Basically the whole situation sucks big time.
9 Likes, Who?
qptain Nemo Jan 8, 2019
My refund request has been denied based on the playtime (20 hours).
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It's a good decision, isn't it? Epic has simply not been on the right track since Tencent take it over. And they have their own definition of currently.
"Currently, there is no possibility to access the launcher on Linux systems."
https://wiki.unrealengine.com/index.php?title=Linux_Support
I visit the site once a year to laugh.
"Currently, there is no possibility to access the launcher on Linux systems."
https://wiki.unrealengine.com/index.php?title=Linux_Support
I visit the site once a year to laugh.
1 Likes, Who?
My refund request has been denied based on the playtime (20 hours).
Well sure thing it was denied, 20 hours is more than enough for what the game costs anyway, and don't shy away from Proton, it works really well. I've been getting games left and right for it, it's amazing. I mean, I am 100% with the developer here - if they can't fix the engine to have good performance on Linux and Proton does it better anyway - why should you care how "native" is it?
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I'd feel slightly embarrassed when a generic wrapper did a better job at "porting" my code than what I was able to do myself.
Not totally fair, I know, but still. It's a generic application, a translator, nothing custom to make it work at all.
Not totally fair, I know, but still. It's a generic application, a translator, nothing custom to make it work at all.
3 Likes, Who?
qptain Nemo Jan 8, 2019
It's the principle of the thing. I bought a native Linux game. I no longer have access to what I paid for. It was simply taken away from me. I buy games in order to play them with Wine / Proton "all the time", but at my discretion. I think it's fundamentally unfair to put a customer in a situation where what they have is so far removed from what it was advertized as at the time of purchase that it doesn't work (or isn't officially supported) on the platform it was bought on and for. Can you imagine buying a PlayStation game which suddenly stops working one day and the developers just going "eh, pretty sure you can still play it on an Xbox, good luck kid lol"? Can you imagine Sony letting that slide? Heck, can you imagine some big game on Steam suddenly completely dropping Windows support and there not being an absolute uproar and an avalanche of refund requests? And I think the playtime argument is completely beside the point. I didn't get bored of the game after those 20 hours. When I was paying for it I didn't know I'm paying for a temporary offer that can just disappear for arbitrary reasons. If developers are cutting access to the things that somebody paid for, they should (ideally at least, from a moral perspective) bear the cost. Perhaps they could let the engine developers know about those costs, too.My refund request has been denied based on the playtime (20 hours).
Well sure thing it was denied, 20 hours is more than enough for what the game costs anyway, and don't shy away from Proton, it works really well. I've been getting games left and right for it, it's amazing. I mean, I am 100% with the developer here - if they can't fix the engine to have good performance on Linux and Proton does it better anyway - why should you care how "native" is it?
6 Likes, Who?
Agreed. You pay for the Linux Version. They remove it? Refund. That should be allowed. Maybe Valve should add something like that to the Refund Policy like: If the Developer drops the Platform Support you can refund even when you played it way longer than those 2 Hours and 14 Days after Purchase. Like yeah the port was bad and Proton is a thing. But still. Thats why Proton is Good AND Bad. Bad because: why bother with Supporting and making a Working Port when Proton does the job?
But its also Epics fault for not having a proper Linux Support for their Engine. So you cant blame the Dev alone. But still.
is it really helping, if you can refund games even after 20h playtime
sounds for me like troubles and risks i better dont take next time i make a game
1 Likes, Who?
It's the principle of the thing. I bought a native Linux game. I no longer have access to what I paid for. It was simply taken away from me. I buy games in order to play them with Wine / Proton "all the time", but at my discretion. I think it's fundamentally unfair to put a customer in a situation where what they have is so far removed from what it was advertized as at the time of purchase that it doesn't work (or isn't officially supported) on the platform it was bought on and for.My refund request has been denied based on the playtime (20 hours).
Well sure thing it was denied, 20 hours is more than enough for what the game costs anyway, and don't shy away from Proton, it works really well. I've been getting games left and right for it, it's amazing. I mean, I am 100% with the developer here - if they can't fix the engine to have good performance on Linux and Proton does it better anyway - why should you care how "native" is it?
They never advertised Linux support, on forums they stressed that the beta is experimental, and they never put SteamOS logo on their store page.
3 Likes, Who?
qptain Nemo Jan 8, 2019
If that's the case, I might be in the wrong.It's the principle of the thing. I bought a native Linux game. I no longer have access to what I paid for. It was simply taken away from me. I buy games in order to play them with Wine / Proton "all the time", but at my discretion. I think it's fundamentally unfair to put a customer in a situation where what they have is so far removed from what it was advertized as at the time of purchase that it doesn't work (or isn't officially supported) on the platform it was bought on and for.My refund request has been denied based on the playtime (20 hours).
Well sure thing it was denied, 20 hours is more than enough for what the game costs anyway, and don't shy away from Proton, it works really well. I've been getting games left and right for it, it's amazing. I mean, I am 100% with the developer here - if they can't fix the engine to have good performance on Linux and Proton does it better anyway - why should you care how "native" is it?
They never advertised Linux support, on forums they stressed that the beta is experimental, and they never put SteamOS logo on their store page.
2 Likes, Who?
When I was paying for it I didn't know I'm paying for a temporary offer that can just disappear for arbitrary reasons.Well that's every game on Steam and several other online platforms. You buy licenses, not products. There are many ways those licenses can become useless or inoperative for you. I believe Steam's terms of service are sufficiently clear about this.
As for buying a Linux game, Steam sells cross-platform licenses. That's what the name Steam Play originally referred to: you buy it once, play it on any available OS. Those other parts of your license are still functional, so frustration aside I can't really expect Steam to have liability to you in this instance. It would be great customer service to refund you anyway, but I wouldn't try to take them to court over this. It might make more sense to ask a refund from the dev/publisher instead.
1 Likes, Who?
It's the principle of the thing. I bought a native Linux game.Sorry, but no, you have not. It is a subscription, not a purchase.
And yes, "VALVE AND ITS AFFILIATES AND SERVICE PROVIDERS", as stated in the Steam Subscriber Agreement, provide services "AS IS" … "WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND".
Sad, but true. At least, in case of DRM-free stores you could keep your local copy. No such luck with Steam. :(
2 Likes, Who?
GustyGhost Jan 8, 2019
echo "PixelTail" >> ~/List_of_cancer_developers.txt
No Brakes Games
Thing Trunk
Snapshot Games
Transhuman Design
Eric Lengyel
Redbeet Interactive
Facepunch
Stoic
PixelTail
0 Likes
stretch611 Jan 8, 2019
echo "PixelTail" >> ~/List_of_cancer_developers.txt
No Brakes Games
Thing Trunk
Snapshot Games
Transhuman Design
Eric Lengyel
Redbeet Interactive
Facepunch
Stoic
PixelTail
Sorry, in this case, I do think it should be EPIC added to the list.
2 Likes, Who?
qptain Nemo Jan 9, 2019
When I was paying for it I didn't know I'm paying for a temporary offer that can just disappear for arbitrary reasons.Well that's every game on Steam and several other online platforms. You buy licenses, not products. There are many ways those licenses can become useless or inoperative for you. I believe Steam's terms of service are sufficiently clear about this.
As for buying a Linux game, Steam sells cross-platform licenses. That's what the name Steam Play originally referred to: you buy it once, play it on any available OS. Those other parts of your license are still functional, so frustration aside I can't really expect Steam to have liability to you in this instance. It would be great customer service to refund you anyway, but I wouldn't try to take them to court over this. It might make more sense to ask a refund from the dev/publisher instead.
It's the principle of the thing. I bought a native Linux game.Sorry, but no, you have not. It is a subscription, not a purchase.
And yes, "VALVE AND ITS AFFILIATES AND SERVICE PROVIDERS", as stated in the Steam Subscriber Agreement, provide services "AS IS" … "WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND".
If it wasn’t clear enough, the Steam subscriber agreement also says: "Valve may cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally".That's fair enough. But there is a difference between "is legal" and "is a good idea". I absolutely don't mind Valve covering their ass and making it so they can just do it if it's necessary. How they actually behave in real scenarios is what matters. You, i.e. an average Steam customer, don't expect to randomly lose access to your Steam games all the time. If you did, you wouldn't ever buy anything on Steam, simple as that. Their entire business is built on the assumption that this wouldn't happen 99.9% of the time regardless of whether they're allowed to or not. So I think it's accurate to assert that it's in Valve's interest to maintain that assumption, that this ideal of the customer never losing access to what they paid for is a factor.
So if they want to remove access to a game from everyone, they can.
But I'm compelled by what NeoTheFox said, which is as far as I remember is true. If they actually were clear about how experimental the support was and didn't mark their product as supporting Linux, I knew what I was agreeing to and so this is largely fair, even if disappointing. And in general I agree with the sentiment that less hostility we exhibit towards developers, the less problems down the road we're associated with, the better. I just thought that this kind of bait and switch was a good battle to pick, as something purely about responsibility for decisions. (Also I'll be honest I felt really disappointed and emotionally justified about getting something back for this letdown)
Sad, but true. At least, in case of DRM-free stores you could keep your local copy. No such luck with Steam. :(I just can't resist pointing out that in this particular case that wouldn't help much as Tower Unite is the most multiplayer-only game imaginable. :D
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