Here could be the start of another nail in the coffin for loot boxes, as the Children's Commissioner in England has put out a new report after a little study was done.
Never heard of the Children's Commissioner? It's a public independent body in England that is responsible for promoting and protecting the rights of children (read more here). The current head is Anne Longfield, who today released a pretty damning report on the state of how certain games and companies really attempt to suck money out of people at every opportunity.
I won't quote all of it to spare you some of the things we all already know but it's good to see such a thing being done over here. It's needed, it has been for a long time now. This particular study had them speak to children between 10 to 16 about their gaming habits, what they liked and disliked and so on. Games included that were talked about include Fortnite, Call of Duty, FIFA, Roblox and more which do have some pretty aggressive advertising of the in-game items and subscriptions.
Not all of it is terrible in the report though, thankfully Longfield does carefully mention how playing games can help people to socialise, learn new skills and have fun. All of this applies to adults, just as much as it does to children both the pros and cons of it all.
The result of the study is where it gets interesting. The Commissioner has called for multiple things to be changed, a few of which I will summarise below:
- A place to track historic spending in games
- A maximum daily spending limit in the games as well
- Calls on the UK government to adjust the Gambling Act to regulate loot boxes as gambling
- Calls on the UK government to have a wider review into the definition of gambling in the Gambling Act, due to all the new forms of monetization appearing in games
- Games distributed online should get a legally enforceable age-rating system like physical games
- A requirement of additional warnings for games which have in-game transactions
This bit especially caught my attention:
The amount of money spent, and the lack of a guaranteed reward meant children often feel like their money is wasted. In some cases, they lose control of their spending and attempt to ‘chase losses’ by spending more.
That sure as hell sounds like gambling to me…
You can find the full report here.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: EikeUnfortunately, British government is... busy.I attempted to watch some live the other day, the UK Speaker is hilarious. I'm pretty sure at this point uuurderrr is just a tic, he seemed to say it every few words :P
Oooordaaa!
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 22 October 2019 at 1:37 pm UTC
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Liam DaweI attempted to watch some live the other day, the UK Speaker is hilarious. I'm pretty sure at this point uuurderrr is just a tic, he seemed to say it every few words :P
I watched a bit of it on Saturday.
I wasn't sure every "uuurderrr" was really neeeded either.
You do have some interesting traditions for sure. ;)
0 Likes
HERE WE GO AGAIN...
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
4 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
Does this seem to work well?
16 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...Except many don't and that's without getting into the issues that the report brings up, with bullying when some kids don't have what others do due to the microtransactions and so on. There's an absolute ton of reasons why this sort of legislation is necessary and it's not just for kids too, you do realise this kind of gambling and blowing money on loot boxes/micro happens very regularly to adults too right?
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
Don't be so naive.
Last edited by Liam Dawe on 22 October 2019 at 2:15 pm UTC
20 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
It's clearly not been working up until now, and from my perspective as an adult without any children of my own, these things are still ruining games, as we have seen countless times in so called "AAA" games that have been more or less designed from the ground and up around loot boxes, predatory monetization and gambling practices, which by the way can be hazardous to some adults as well, not just children. Those games are not better for it. As games they are objectively worse regardless whether one jumps into the micro-transaction part of the game or stays out of it. The game industry has had years to fix this issue and they have failed spectacularly. Only recent media coverage and government interest has had a bit of positive effect, but it's still not enough. New legislation is needed, and the game industry brought it on themselves.
Edit: Fixed a stupid typo
Last edited by Brisse on 22 October 2019 at 7:11 pm UTC
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What would be interesting is to require, with every real-money purchase on microtransactions, a cumulative tally be displayed showing how much was spent on the game that day/week/total amount. I would imagine simply seeing how quickly runaway spending can occur on those sorts of games would give a lot of players pause.
Last edited by Nezchan on 22 October 2019 at 2:31 pm UTC
Last edited by Nezchan on 22 October 2019 at 2:31 pm UTC
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Quoting: BeamboomOk so this escalated quickly :DORRRDUUURRRR
11 Likes, Who?
Quoting: Liam DaweQuoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...Except many don't and that's without getting into the issues that the report brings up, with bullying when some kids don't have what others do due to the microtransactions and so on. There's an absolute ton of reasons why this sort of legislation is necessary and it's not just for kids too, you do realise this kind of gambling and blowing money on loot boxes/micro happens very regularly to adults too right?
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
Don't be so naive.
I know that microtransactions are bad, but the parent should be closer to their kid and show what is bad, explain the things and ban the game. That simple.
To adults, they are responsible, they have their money and do whatever they want. Want to lose all the salary trying a nice skin, OK. If they want to spend all on drugs, OK. If they want to do an investment with the money, better! But isn't I or the government that should control the life of other people. This is freedom
Ah, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic
4 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic
Ironically, you pointed at the difference between adults and kids yourself in the very same posting...
0 Likes
Sounds pretty good.
Pay to win games are mostly created around how they can manipulate the player as much as possible so he will lower his resistance to paying and eventually pay and pay more and more. There have been a lot of studies to how you can get players addicted and paying.
Put those techniques in a slim gaming jacket and you get an endless income.
Fellow developers pointed at this research with much shame, because, let's face it, it's disgusting if the primary drive is to program addiction stimulants, and only after that maybe a gaming concept.
It's hard for parents to understand how far the gaming industry go to get their children addicted.
I've seen it from up close too on that game promoted by Arnold Schwarzenegger, mobile strike.
It really had a big load of addiction stimulants, like advanced forms of peer pressure.
Even for me as an adult it was hard to say no. The only way actually was to just delete the game and block the accounts. I was in it for 100 euro. But for some a weekend of $2000 was normal.
And these were not even kids. And the game sucked to be honest.
So am I against loot boxes? Not really. But I am really against paid for lootboxes. And I am in favour of controlled expenses. The expenses should never exceed a simple $5 a month for a child. That's still $60 a year.
And I am against peer pressure techniques and all other addiction stimulants they purposely put in games.
Maybe they should concentrate on creating a good game instead of an addictive game. There really is a difference.
So yes please... bring back the fun in gaming.
(Also, anyone remember the PUBG mobile murder where a 26 year old "child" murdered his father because he refused to pay for any more loot boxes and confiscated his mobile phone. That kid was severely addicted. Let's hope he was one of a kind).
Pay to win games are mostly created around how they can manipulate the player as much as possible so he will lower his resistance to paying and eventually pay and pay more and more. There have been a lot of studies to how you can get players addicted and paying.
Put those techniques in a slim gaming jacket and you get an endless income.
Fellow developers pointed at this research with much shame, because, let's face it, it's disgusting if the primary drive is to program addiction stimulants, and only after that maybe a gaming concept.
It's hard for parents to understand how far the gaming industry go to get their children addicted.
I've seen it from up close too on that game promoted by Arnold Schwarzenegger, mobile strike.
It really had a big load of addiction stimulants, like advanced forms of peer pressure.
Even for me as an adult it was hard to say no. The only way actually was to just delete the game and block the accounts. I was in it for 100 euro. But for some a weekend of $2000 was normal.
And these were not even kids. And the game sucked to be honest.
So am I against loot boxes? Not really. But I am really against paid for lootboxes. And I am in favour of controlled expenses. The expenses should never exceed a simple $5 a month for a child. That's still $60 a year.
And I am against peer pressure techniques and all other addiction stimulants they purposely put in games.
Maybe they should concentrate on creating a good game instead of an addictive game. There really is a difference.
So yes please... bring back the fun in gaming.
(Also, anyone remember the PUBG mobile murder where a 26 year old "child" murdered his father because he refused to pay for any more loot boxes and confiscated his mobile phone. That kid was severely addicted. Let's hope he was one of a kind).
6 Likes, Who?
Quoting: EikeQuoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic
Ironically, you pointed at the difference between adults and kids yourself in the very same posting...
The adult is responsible for the children, not the government, is that hard to get?
I known a boy that used their father's credit card, ONCE. The father explained to him that this is a bad thing. Maybe if the father spent some time with the kid, maybe this didn't happened the first time.
2 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnYou are so incredibly naive and narrow minded, I'm genuinely amazed.Quoting: EikeQuoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic
Ironically, you pointed at the difference between adults and kids yourself in the very same posting...
The adult is responsible for the children, not the government, is that hard to get?
I known a boy that used their father's credit card, ONCE. The father explained to him that this is a bad thing. Maybe if the father spent some time with the kid, maybe this didn't happened the first time.
I've seen first-hand how gambling can ruin an adult's life, just as much as a child.
12 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnQuoting: EikeQuoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic
Ironically, you pointed at the difference between adults and kids yourself in the very same posting...
The adult is responsible for the children, not the government, is that hard to get?
We've been talking about your drugs example (that's why I quoted it). So what's your conclusion of "The adult is responsible for the children, not the government" with respect to this topic, drug legalization?
1 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnQuoting: EikeQuoting: fagnerlnAh, and talking about drugs, I bet that mostly of you in the comments support the "free drugs" movement. "People are free to use any drug they want, because they 'own' yourselves, but gambling, nah, please government, save them", ironic
Ironically, you pointed at the difference between adults and kids yourself in the very same posting...
The adult is responsible for the children, not the government, is that hard to get?
I known a boy that used their father's credit card, ONCE. The father explained to him that this is a bad thing. Maybe if the father spent some time with the kid, maybe this didn't happened the first time.
fagnerln, do you have children? Don't take this the wrong way, but like Liam said, you are incredibly naive.
Your philosophy is great in theory, but reality is more something like this:
- No Timmy, you can't play this game, it contains gambling.
- But daaad, they said on TV that it is not gambling!
- I know Timmy, but they are wrong. It is gambling because this and this..
- But dad, John's parents allow him to play it!
- Well, they are wrong to do so. In any case, you can't play it and that's final.
- Not fair, I hate you dad!
Your philosophy might work if all the parents were responsible and didn't spoil their children, but that is not the world we live in.
As for your example, let me share something from my personal life that I'm ashamed of: When I was a kid, I stole money from my mother's purse to buy a pack of Pokemon cards (you know, the old form of loot boxes). It was the only time I ever did such a thing and I felt really bad about doing it. But I reaaaaly reaaaly wanted to have that scyther and I run out of my own money trying to get it. I thought that if I could just buy one more pack, I'm sure to get it or something else cool.
To this day, my mother doesn't know about it. I can assure you, the problem wasn't on how she raised me, she was always strict with me.
So yeah, it is unfortunate, but we need laws to help parents with raising their children. You can't watch them 24/7 and even if you raise them in the best way possible, they are going to get influenced by their enviroment (classmates, teachers, media etc...).
11 Likes, Who?
Avehicle7887 Oct 22, 2019
Personally I'm all in for loot boxing bans. Over the years I've pretty much came to terms with DLC instead of full blown expansions, at least you still get the content you paid for.
Loot boxes is a completely different thing though, it doesn't just affect the wallet but the way a game is shaped. Guild Wars 2 is a perfect example of this, the game turned into a loot box fest in recent years, forget playing the game and have a stab on getting cool skins the same way the first game was.
Loot boxes is a completely different thing though, it doesn't just affect the wallet but the way a game is shaped. Guild Wars 2 is a perfect example of this, the game turned into a loot box fest in recent years, forget playing the game and have a stab on getting cool skins the same way the first game was.
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Quoting: GuestOn this subject I can heartily recommend Jim Sterling. He's done some good videos on this very topic, with some proper research and thought out points on the matter.
People should watch this one in particular:
The Addictive Cost Of Predatory Videogame Monetization
There's also this video about it by YongYea: CEO Keynote On Tricking Players Into Mass Spending Highlights Deplorable Truth of Microtransactions
5 Likes, Who?
Quoting: fagnerlnSo you're saying children with bad parents don't deserve not to be fleeced by con artists? I guess it's their fault for not picking their parents carefully.Quoting: Liam DaweQuoting: fagnerlnHERE WE GO AGAIN...Except many don't and that's without getting into the issues that the report brings up, with bullying when some kids don't have what others do due to the microtransactions and so on. There's an absolute ton of reasons why this sort of legislation is necessary and it's not just for kids too, you do realise this kind of gambling and blowing money on loot boxes/micro happens very regularly to adults too right?
We don't need the government controlling even more our lives, the parents should moderate what their children are using.
Don't be so naive.
I know that microtransactions are bad, but the parent should be closer to their kid and show what is bad, explain the things and ban the game. That simple.
10 Likes, Who?
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