Paradox to trial a subscription system to help with DLC overload for Europa Universalis IV

As someone who has thought about buying the game many times but hasn't yet, I can only agree that the DLC overload is daunting. I don't want to put that much research into the purchase of a video game. I've been planning on buying the base game and ignoring all non-free DLC. But I know I will always think, "I wonder if there are a couple must-have DLC that majorly changes the whole game I'm missing out on." Thanks to the current Humble Bundle, I will probably just nab the game and bargain DLC there and let that sale package do the choosing for me.

What would be still hard for me to swallow in a subscription model is the feeling that I need to play the game a certain amount of time each month to validate the expense. Perhaps, I would play the game a lot for a couple months and then not that often, so I'd unsubscribe, never to play again, whereas maybe I'd play it a little more if there wasn't a paywall to start it up again.

One could surmise that the possible addition of a subscription model suggests continued development for the old game. It's not a must-be-true, but, you know, it likely is.

Actually, I heard my favourite let's players (Gametube) talk about this problem today: One said when he sees such a list of DLCs, he's got no idea what he needs and what not... and goes back to playing some DOTA. :D

I can never get particularly worked-up about Paradox's “DLC overload”, to be honest. The vast majority of it is cosmetic and can be easily ignored without affecting the quality of gameplay at all (other publishers would probably sell it in-game as microtransactions, which would bring down a whole different kind of ire on them). You'd really have to have more money than sense to spend £250 on the whole shebang. They usually end up with maybe half-a-dozen “real”, game-altering, DLC packages over the course of several years, and they're often on sale.

A subscription service is an interesting idea though, if it means you can try them out before buying outright. It all depends on the pricing, really.

A subscription service is an interesting idea though, if it means you can try them out before buying outright. It all depends on the pricing, really.

As said above, imagine you didn't follow the game grow, then you're sitting in front of a ridiculously long list of stuff and no idea what actualy are these "half-a-dozen “real”, game-altering, DLC packages" you might want. It's like you need to solve a puzzle before you are "allowed" to buy the game.

Paradox continues down the road towards Evil Arts, eh? :(

If it was a switchover where that was the only way, I'd certainly be against it. As an option, seems like a decent idea which would be the right approach for some and might get some people into it and paying them money who would otherwise have given it a miss. Maybe they should consider a "Rent to own" model where if you subscribe long enough to have paid for bloody everything, it's yours.

For me personally, that humble bundle was too good, I just picked it up with a stack of DLC.

I love Paradox games, but if they go the subscription route, I'm out.

As someone who has thought about buying the game many times but hasn't yet, I can only agree that the DLC overload is daunting. I don't want to put that much research into the purchase of a video game.

My suggestion to newcomers to Paradox games is don't worry about DLC until you've gotten comfortable with the base game, which offers a complete experience in and of itself. Only then should you look over the DLC and see which ones appeal to you and mesh with your play style.


Last edited by Mountain Man on 23 January 2020 at 5:38 pm UTC

I think it is a good idea so long as it is just an alternative to the "normal" way.

I am unlikely to subscribe to game services, as I play very irregularly - a long time without playing, then one day on a whim I pick it up and play for a while. Even more so for strategy games, that aren't something I will finish the story or solve all the puzzles and be done with the game - so I really want to have the stuff "to keep forever" rather than rent it.

But in many cases, paying a subscription for a few months can be a much better cost-benefit. If you can take it when advantageous, but just buy it (for a reasonable price) when it is not, it would be ok. My main fear is that a lot of things are moving into subscriptions exclusively (or at least prioritizing it), because this gives companies much more control over people and what they have... and that is horrible.

I can never get particularly worked-up about Paradox's “DLC overload”, to be honest. The vast majority of it is cosmetic and can be easily ignored without affecting the quality of gameplay at all
... They usually end up with maybe half-a-dozen “real”, game-altering, DLC packages over the course of several years

As Eike noted, it's not necessarily the quantity in itself that's the problem - it's the Steam Store UI that really sucks for games with lots of DLC. Even just letting the developer group things into categories like "Cosmetic", "Extra mechanics", and "Country flavour" would help enormously IMO.

I thought the recent-ish DLC section of the store would help, but nobody seems to know what to do with the tags, so you end up with eg. all the EU4 DLC lumped into "Simulation" and "Strategy" rather than anything actually useful to potential customers.

For anyone on the fence about buying eu4; the Humble Bundle currently going contains everything that is "essential" and basically everything else that adds mechanics and features. The big thing lacking is the cosmetic stuff, which is really just there to throw some extra money at the developers. Currently going for about €17 for the full package.

The upcoming DLC (and accompanying free patch) is going to absolutely huge and might well land on that list as well eventually, which might be good to know. Then it will cool down for quite a while.

If anyone wonders about the essentials, it differs a bit on play-style and as such opinions are a bit varied but it generally boils down to:

• Art of War


• Common Sense


• Dharma


• Wealth of Nations

Some of these "essential" features also trickle down into the base game so these get less and less important as time goes on.

Actually, I heard my favourite let's players (Gametube) talk about this problem today: One said when he sees such a list of DLCs, he's got no idea what he needs and what not... and goes back to playing some DOTA. :D

...imagine you didn't follow the game grow, then you're sitting in front of a ridiculously long list of stuff and no idea what actualy are these "half-a-dozen “real”, game-altering, DLC packages" you might want.

So a bit of an illustrative related personal anecdote here. I picked up Cities: Skylines back when it first came out in 2015 and played for quite some time loving every minute of it. Before the first DLC came in I was finished with the vanilla experience and moved on to other media content intending to come back once the game had been expanded via DLC. Time-lapse to early 2019 when YouTube randomly starts recommending me Cities: Skylines videos and reminds me I was intending to play more of it.

At this point I start looking through the list of DLC and the related bundles. None of the bundles are just the essential game mechanic DLC. I don't need all those radio stations, as I typically turn off game music and have other stuff (documentaries, podcasts, et al) playing in the background. I don't need all the visual aesthetic stuff until and unless I get tired of the vanilla ones because I'm playing that much.

Doing my due diligence I try to find what are the DLCs I expressly need for added game mechanics. Every list I find is outdated, an abandoned incomplete WIP or includes at least some of the content I don't care about. After two weeks of collating data from various lists I finally have an essentials list and start pricing it only to realize I'm going to break my gaming budget for the year if I buy all those and I need all of them to play with the added interesting stuff I've now seen which makes me want to play again.

In the end I just shrugged and went off to play a mix of as yet unplayed backlog games and my standard gotos of the last decade, current Minecraft modpacks and Dwarf Fortress and didn't bother with the game I was really in the mood to play. If I'd had the option to drop $20 to $50 and play with all the DLC and mods I'd want for a couple months before canning the sub and going off to other games I'd have at least had the chance to play what I wanted to when I wanted to (ok, I did play a week of vanilla around a month later, but that just reminded me why I felt done when I did). I've had similar experiences with other Paradox titles previously as well *looks sidelong at Crusader Kings II.

That's a pretty ridiculous sum.

And the usual response, of course, is: "Yes, if you buy it all at full price." (This isn't directed at you Liam, by the way, since I know you enjoy Paradox games, it's a response to this criticism in the abstract.) Pretty much anything later than the two most recent expansions will regularly go on sale for 75% off; apply that to the price and you get £63.74 (or about $83.5 USD for my own convenience). And of course, if you drop all the cosmetic DLC that price would drop another $20 at least. Now compared to all the $10 indie games running around out there even I'll say that's not exactly cheap, but in terms of what you get I think you'll get a lot more than 8× the playtime out of it if you like that kind of gameplay. I actually have bought most of EU IV & DLC full price—but I've also put 1,154 hours into it and expect to put many more in the future once the big game-changing Europe update comes out this year, so my actual cost-per-hour is less than $0.28/hour, making it a better deal than almost any other game in my library (and most forms of paid entertainment out there).

Um, actually on topic, I've occasionally thought that it would great to be able to just pay a subscription service to Paradox. They'd get a moderately more stable cash flow (especially if they did the usual thing of offering discounts the longer you subscribe for), and if I just got DLC I was interested in as it came out without needing to buy it (perhaps with a small discount, again, for subscribing) I'd be pretty happy. Realistically I'll probably end up buying anything they put out for the games I play anyway, eventually (I don't play all games equally at all times). Like other have said I wouldn't want that to be the only option, but I think it could potentially work as an option.

EU4 DLC used to be 66% off on sales, but now they are only 50% off (in EU at least), which is crazy for everyone who is just starting to play the game.

Humble has basically all the DLC (except for one which you don't need) for just $17, which is a must-take deal if you ever consider playing the game. To be honest I'd rather have them to bundle all the old DLC into heavily discounted price instead of having subscription service -- or the subscription price should be something like $15/year (or less) to be worth it.

I've only played about 500 hours of the game as I usually don't find any time to play, but this is my favorite game, too. I have all the DLC which is included in the bundle except for Res Publica, though I've not paid the full price for any of it, I just don't think it is worth for me as I just do not have the time. I also own almost every other Paradox game, though I've got those mainly from bundles.

What I'm trying to say, I'm happy Paradox to keep on supporting their games, but in the past they've made the games unplayable if you don't have most of the DLC. I agree that this should be changed, but IMHO it should be done by lowering the prices of older DLC by grouping them together with discount (Steam allows you to play only from the missing stuff) as every other game tends to do. I guess that subscription service would be cool, too, but it should be the value option by either offering all the games or having very low subscription fee or most people wouldn't even consider using it. This is especially true as I believe EU4 will shortly have the fate of CK2.

EU4 DLC used to be 66% off on sales, but now they are only 50% off (in EU at least), which is crazy for everyone who is just starting to play the game.

Huh, you're right: the base game is 75% off now, but all the DLC are only 50%. That does change the math a bit. :(