A note on using Steam Play Proton and counting the sales for Linux (updated)

I admit, I could be wrong by a few years ;). Though I honestly think this is our best bet to break the current chicken and egg situation.

Unfortunately, I don't have a better one.
I just fear neither "No Tux, no bux" nor Proton worked out or will work out.

Well, Linux as a whole certainly isn't going anywhere and it seems at least Valve is committed to supporting the Steam store on Linux for many years to come. Even if they end up perhaps phasing out Proton one day, the work they've already helped push forwards has been invaluable to a lot of open source projects.

Well, Linux as a whole certainly isn't going anywhere and it seems at least Valve is committed to supporting the Steam store on Linux for many years to come. Even if they end up perhaps phasing out Proton one day, the work they've already helped push forwards has been invaluable to a lot of open source projects.

Sure, I appreciate what they are doing!
Not working out was meant in the way jens was hoping for: Rising Linux Steam user numbers by a significant amount.

Well, Linux as a whole certainly isn't going anywhere and it seems at least Valve is committed to supporting the Steam store on Linux for many years to come. Even if they end up perhaps phasing out Proton one day, the work they've already helped push forwards has been invaluable to a lot of open source projects.

Sure, I appreciate what they are doing!
Not working out was meant in the way jens was hoping for: Rising Linux Steam user numbers by a significant amount.

Yeah I get that :)

For the Linux share to rise, there needs to be a lot more happening outside of our own control and Valve's. Alone, they're just not enough to push it. We need more bigger hardware vendors to offer it, advertise it and so on.

For the Linux share to rise, there needs to be a lot more happening outside of our own control and Valve's. Alone, they're just not enough to push it. We need more bigger hardware vendors to offer it, advertise it and so on.

As far as I can see, most Linux gamers today are people who were already using (or at least were familiar with) Linux. There are quite a few who use Linux for work or/and at home, but game on consoles, or don't really game at all. Most of the growth is form this pool.

Windows gamers is a much larger group, but also considerably harder to tap into.

Proton adds to WINE. Valve isn't just forking it and keep it to themselves +1
Proton encourages Linux purchases +1
Proton enables gaming +5 (Tons games we will never see a port for)

And you read what Pierre said "At this early stage...". That makes me so pleased. There is a time and place for every points that have been made in Proton discussion. Right now Linux is gaining foothold, small as it may be.

I admit, I could be wrong by a few years ;). Though I honestly think this is our best bet to break the current chicken and egg situation.

Unfortunately, I don't have a better one.
I just fear neither "No Tux, no bux" nor Proton worked out or will work out.

I have to admit that I'm not fully convinced either. I guess it would already be a miracle if Linux establishes the 2% again. That said I'm still consider it a miracle that I played GTA V from start to finish on Linux last year, so miracles do seem to happen occasionally ;)

Trouble is, it already is one year later and our percentage didn't budge.

There are many reasons why:
1. Proton isn't complete
1.1 It lacks anti cheat support which hinders many popular games from working.
1.2 It still is undergoing development (VK3D), further optimization and bug fixes
2. Other platforms are also improving. Windows now has Xbox Game Pass and soon it will also have XCloud. That is a compelling proposition for gamers to stay on or use Windows.
3. Linux needs marketing, it has little to no marketing.
4. Other platforms are preinstalled on PC that people buy

It isn't now you should be judging Proton harshly. You should when anti cheat support has landed and VK3D progresses as much as DXVK has.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 12 Feb 2020 at 11:55 pm UTC

2. Other platforms are also improving. Windows now has Xbox Game Pass and soon it will also have XCloud. That is a compelling proposition for gamers to stay on or use Windows.

XGP is the main reason why I have a PC with Windows 10...
(A legit Windows by the way, not a pirated Windows like everyone else)

200AR$ plus taxes (about 3.5U$D) per month is a damn good gaming deal...
Valve should have a subscription system like this.

It isn't now you should be judging Proton harshly.

I understand that it's the rescue for some (many) Linux gamers. I fear that it's hindering Linux native ports (while others think it's the possibility for Linux gaming to lift off to get more native ports on the long run). It's an astonishing piece of software for sure. So, mixed bag for me.

What I mainly wanted to say is that I don't feel it will succeed in lifting off Linux gaming, unfortunately.


Last edited by Eike on 13 Feb 2020 at 1:05 pm UTC

200AR$ plus taxes (about 3.5U$D) per month is a damn good gaming deal...
Valve should have a subscription system like this.

I guess they have to do something like this some day.

I understand that it's the rescue for some (many) Linux gamers. I fear that it's hindering Linux native ports (while others think it's the possibility for Linux gaming to lift of to getr more native ports). It's an astonishing piece of software for sure. So, mixed bag for me.

What I mainly wanted to say is that I don't feel it will succeed in lifting off Linux gaming, unfortunately.

Your concern is valid and rings true. But I believe Proton will do far more good than harm. Native ports (speaking of major games not indie) vs Proton is like the saying that goes something like this "Give a man a fish, and he will be fed for a day. Teach a man how to fish and he will be fed for life". Native ports won't by itself adress issue of marketshare. It's such a fickle situation that Proton is really necessary. As has been said if 10 major companies port their big games to Linux, all the money from us Linux gamers will be spread across them. And as it is, the users are so few that there is little money for them, and now with ten major games competing against eachother that money is made even less.

Don't consider Proton the end result, consider it a long term solution to ensure native ports on Linux. Proton also encourages Vulkan and Vulkan is a key players for developers to be able to port games easier and with less costs. You should still keep a healthy buying habit. If there is a game that's excellent and available natively on Linux, that you like, spend alot money on it. For Proton titles...wait for discount and spend less. I've observed alot positive things with Proton's release. Things are brewing. It has made such positive effect on my gaming experience on Linux. And Valve hasn't shown any signs of stopping with their investment in it. Stay positive:)


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 13 Feb 2020 at 1:10 pm UTC

As a relatively new Linux person (about 6 months now, if I'm not mistaken). It's good to know that I should be playing games on proton at least for a bit, after buying them on a sale :P

I've been hating on Windows for years (privacy, safety concerns and its general instability) but gaming always tied me to it. And I... honestly have been too lazy to deal with Wine etc. on my own. After hearing about Proton and how easy it was making things (and checking my ratio of games that have a port or run well via Proton) I pulled a hard switch. No dual boot, no VM. Installed Ubuntu. (3 times that night :D)

Anyway. I agree that the lack of ports is also somewhat of a chicken/egg problem.
But I think if via proton the market share of people gaming on linux rises, developers may be more interested into using tools which allow for "effortless" porting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's partially one of the reasons a lot of indie games actually have a linux port because tools like GameMaker do allow for "exporting a linux version" of the game they're making alongside the obvious Windows port.

As a relatively new Linux person (about 6 months now, if I'm not mistaken). It's good to know that I should be playing games on proton at least for a bit, after buying them on a sale :P

I've been hating on Windows for years (privacy, safety concerns and its general instability) but gaming always tied me to it. And I... honestly have been too lazy to deal with Wine etc. on my own. After hearing about Proton and how easy it was making things (and checking my ratio of games that have a port or run well via Proton) I pulled a hard switch. No dual boot, no VM. Installed Ubuntu. (3 times that night :D)

Anyway. I agree that the lack of ports is also somewhat of a chicken/egg problem.
But I think if via proton the market share of people gaming on linux rises, developers may be more interested into using tools which allow for "effortless" porting.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's partially one of the reasons a lot of indie games actually have a linux port because tools like GameMaker do allow for "exporting a linux version" of the game they're making alongside the obvious Windows port.

Welcome aboard! :)

I've been hating on Windows for years (privacy, safety concerns and its general instability) but gaming always tied me to it.

This is always nice to hear. I’ve seen people say that Windows users don’t see what’s wrong with Windows and Linux will never grow because those people are "blind." But I know almost no one that actually likes Windows. A lot of people hate it and love to complain about it, but just believe that they’re stuck with it, the only alternative being overpriced Macs that aren’t compatible with anything.

But I know almost no one that actually likes Windows. A lot of people hate it and love to complain about it, but just believe that they’re stuck with it, the only alternative being overpriced Macs that aren’t compatible with anything.

My mom actually wants me to install Linux on her computer, since she's fed up with windows' update system now that she knows there is a workable alternative. But yeah, I think you're right about people feeling to be "stuck" with it, especially since most machines you buy come pre-loaded with it.
Also I think the "beginner distros" (if you wanna call them that) have come far enough you could easily give them to your grandmother or someone who only needs a laptop/computer for light office work and browsing the web.


Last edited by Sonata on 13 Feb 2020 at 5:41 pm UTC

It isn't now you should be judging Proton harshly.

I understand that it's the rescue for some (many) Linux gamers. I fear that it's hindering Linux native ports (while others think it's the possibility for Linux gaming to lift off to get more native ports on the long run). It's an astonishing piece of software for sure. So, mixed bag for me.

What I mainly wanted to say is that I don't feel it will succeed in lifting off Linux gaming, unfortunately.

That's certainly the big-number-of-dollars question. I'd have to agree that I don't think, no matter how good it becomes, that Proton can without anything else happening cause Linux marketshare to grow hugely. That takes preinstalls of some sort, and we don't have 'em, and that's that.
But. I think without anything else happening, Proton does have the potential to grow Linux (desktop) marketshare some, and gaming marketshare slightly more as it allows dual-booters to dump that Windows partition. Heck, a plausible argument might be made that Proton has something to do with the decline in Linux Steam user share having for the moment stopped. Perhaps more importantly, Proton (if it gets anti-cheat running and generally reaches a point where it Just Works for a big proportion of AAA games) could be a big piece in the puzzle for enabling potential Linux-based plays to work and be profitable. However, those plays may or may not materialize, and even if they do, they might not succeed.

So yeah, maybe it'll get things somewhere, maybe it won't. It may indeed end up doing more harm than good. But I don't see anything else on the horizon capable of beating certain chicken-egg problems, so thus far I'd rather see it than nothing.

Also I think the "beginner distros" (if you wanna call them that) have come far enough you could easily give them to your grandmother or someone who only needs a laptop/computer for light office work and browsing the web.

Can confirm that my mother has been using Mint for a few years now and there’s no functional difference for her except not having to deal with Microsoft’s egregious bullshit :) I just run software updates for her once in a while (not that she wouldn’t be able to do it herself if she bothered) and whenever she needs tech support it’s usually for software-specific bugs, nothing too specific to using Linux rather than Windows.

Heck, even when her system had issues returning from screensaver mode (not sure if it was lmdm, lightdm or something else) and I gave her a command line fix to restart her session, she said she didn’t mind having to type a few words in a console every so often compared to using Windows. That was a shock.

So if we really want Windows games straight from the developers, to play from release day one we who are playing their games through Proton should be getting in contact with the developers, to say hey we are able to play your game here in Linux, with better performance than in Windows. Any chance you could add some Vulkan to the code so we can have it natively? Then leave them names of Linux Porters Feral Interactive for instance. We as players of these games should be doing something too and not just leaving it to the likes of Steam, as they are working so hard already making Proton work with every game under the sun. The question is though. Would developers actually listen and take note to what Joe Bloggs has to say and ask?? But this was the whole idea of Proton anyway, however it was going to show to developers, being played on Linux?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's partially one of the reasons a lot of indie games actually have a linux port because tools like GameMaker do allow for "exporting a linux version" of the game they're making alongside the obvious Windows port.

That's right. Some even don't have a Linux installed to test it. X)

So yeah, maybe it'll get things somewhere, maybe it won't. It may indeed end up doing more harm than good. But I don't see anything else on the horizon capable of beating certain chicken-egg problems, so thus far I'd rather see it than nothing.

Right? If Linux could or would have become popular without Proton's existance, but simply with native ports, why didn't it the last decade? I am so sure that if Proton wasn't around Linux would be seriously choked out. Xbox Game Pass, XCloud and Play anywhere from Microsoft and changes made to Windows 10 since initial period are pretty good!

So if we really want Windows games straight from the developers, to play from release day one we who are playing their games through Proton should be getting in contact with the developers, to say hey we are able to play your game here in Linux, with better performance than in Windows. Any chance you could add some Vulkan to the code so we can have it natively? Then leave them names of Linux Porters Feral Interactive for instance. We as players of these games should be doing something too and not just leaving it to the likes of Steam, as they are working so hard already making Proton work with every game under the sun. The question is though. Would developers actually listen and take note to what Joe Bloggs has to say and ask?? But this was the whole idea of Proton anyway, however it was going to show to developers, being played on Linux?

No. I don't mean to be cynical but many developers have already made up their mind or/and are also restricted by other factors such as their employers or software licenses. It's also been said it's not the porting that's costly it is the fact you have to maintain it. What you can do is ask developers or companies that show interest, because believe me many don't care because of business (with the 1% marketshare in mind), who favor Vulkan over D3D to maybe consider porting their games. Even games that primarily uses Vulkan (DOOM) are hard to get ported to Linux because developers don't can't bother with maintaining the port after release. Even after a game has been ported to Linux you can't be certain well done or/and it will be maintained (Metro Last Light). EDIT: Indie developers are a exception. Their games are smaller in scope and they are largely independent, so I'd ask for port for such games.

What you should do is promote cross platform tech such as Vulkan. Not only is it effortless for developers, as they don't have to maintain a Linux version, but it will run close to native through Proton. I have seen numerous posts of people asking for Linux release for many, many games. Developers don't listen for whatever reason. I have strong belief that Vulkan adoption and Proton's getting better will bring many more people to Linux. Remember, a game that uses Vulkan that runs through Proton does not use DXVK nor D9VK so the code is run natively and with negligable performance penalty. Word of mouth is a powerful marketing. But as I pointed out earlier, Linux is less feasible for more people until anticheat and VK3D support is finalized.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 14 Feb 2020 at 12:29 pm UTC