Civilization VI - New Frontier Pass launches without Linux and macOS

Quoting: soulsourceThat's also the reason why I am barely reading the Steam forums for our own titles any more...

You might find this article interesting.

QuoteThere were plenty of moments in the last 3 years when our mindset and resolve to be nice in the face of hate were challenged to the core. I have all the respect in the world for everyone in the service industries who tries to do a good job. To serve is a noble profession, and to do it well is not easy at all. I think a key to success is to treat it as a serious job, and divorce it from being personal. Someone who says mean things and has unreasonable demands might just be having a bad day. Our responses had the power to perpetuate the downward spiral, or to lift someone up. The above quote was one of the worst emails we’ve had (and there were quite a few like that). That this player was reported in game multiple times by multiple people was no surprise. We then gave him a warning, which he confused to be a temp ban. He then got incensed and wrote us an email.

Initially, seeing all the text that I highlighted in red was tough to take. I had to walk away for a bit to collect myself. When I returned to the email and calmed down, it became easier to see the text that I highlighted in blue, which was the point he was trying to make. He paid for the game and spent his hard earned money. He liked the game enough to gift 3 copies to his friends. He misunderstood the warning for a ban. Once I understood the issue, it became easy to reply. I also appealed to him to help us maintain and grow this community while reminding him of ours as well as Steam’s terms of use and community standards. The player never expected me to reply, and once I did, he was nice enough to help us and turned his behavior in game completely around. We’ve had quite a few players with a similar encounter, and the majority of these players actually stayed with the game over hundreds of hours of play. With over 60K player reports investigated, we ended up giving out warnings only about 4% of the time. Only 0.3% of the time did we issue bans of varying degrees. We take players’ hard earned money seriously, and we try to appeal to people’s humanity and reason over heavy handed policing, and I think it has worked for us.

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

And this is why it always hurts when we get developers who directly support us bought out by competition that will force them to drop said support (like inXile). I kind of always thought that Aspyr was a 'me too!' Porting house, as Feral has done far more for Linux with new tools and adopting Vulkan, etc than Aspyr has.
Guess we'll see how this progresses, but I can't imagine that Firaxis broke the multiplayer code so much that the Switch port would be so different than the Linux port.

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

And this is why it always hurts when we get developers who directly support us bought out by competition that will force them to drop said support (like inXile). I kind of always thought that Aspyr was a 'me too!' Porting house, as Feral has done far more for Linux with new tools and adopting Vulkan, etc than Aspyr has.
Guess we'll see how this progresses, but I can't imagine that Firaxis broke the multiplayer code so much that the Switch port would be so different than the Linux port.

I don't believe Firaxis "broke the multiplayer code." The issue here is almost certainly that 2K directed Aspyr to prioritize the console versions over the "alternative PC" versions, or the money flowed in such a way that Aspyr set their own priorities that way. Maybe there is sales data to support that decision, but I have a hard time believing there are that many people who actually want to play a turn-based strategy game with matches that can go for several days on consoles.

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

And this is why it always hurts when we get developers who directly support us bought out by competition that will force them to drop said support (like inXile). I kind of always thought that Aspyr was a 'me too!' Porting house, as Feral has done far more for Linux with new tools and adopting Vulkan, etc than Aspyr has.
Guess we'll see how this progresses, but I can't imagine that Firaxis broke the multiplayer code so much that the Switch port would be so different than the Linux port.

I'm not sure if inXile will continue to support Linux in future titles or not but they continued to support us with Bard's Tale 4 even after they were purchased. The native version of BT4 runs really well as does the Windows version through Proton. Last year I did a review for BT4 and both the PR rep and inXile were very cooperative and friendly. They were interested in doing a Linux port properly, but they were also seemed interested in Valve's Proton tool and ProtonDB as well.

Where I have a problem with studios and publishers is when they drop support in the middle of a title with DLC and bug fixes. If they committed to a Linux port then it should be done well. If they don't want to port a title at all because it's not financially viable, I'm okay with that. Just don't bait and switch on me.


Last edited by randyl on 24 May 2020 at 6:01 pm UTC

Quoting: randyl

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: BlackBloodRum

Quoting: areamanplaysgame

Quoting: BlackBloodRumWoah guys, stop with all the hate. Seriously.

I dislike how the Linux community is slowly turning into a bunch of people whining... step back, take a deep breath and calm down.

Now, it's not great that this wasn't immediately ported, and let's face it many of you want to play the new update, want simultaneous updates with Windows and of course, to play online with windows friends.

It's perfectly acceptable to want these things, but here's the thing you have to remember:
Porting houses usually don't get access to the update code until after the windows team has finished their part, by this time usually the update is announced and has a deadline.

Sadly this often means if they run into problems making it work, or anything else which may slow it down, the deadline is easily missed, and the Windows version will always be ready first. That's why it's called a port..

So sit back, wait a little while and calm down.

Complaining and insulting the developers won't make the port happen any faster, in fact it may do the opposite, if you're a developer reading someone talking about you, and you read "These guys can eat shit" and "I'm definitely not buying this now!" will this make you want to keep porting for them?

Nope it'll make you angry and have a low opinion of the people you're doing the work for.

Remember, some of the porting houses have developers who read these comments...

The other platforms Aspyr is charged with porting this to, including Nintendo Switch, already received the update. Nintendo Switch doesn't have cross-platform multiplayer with Windows. Linux and Mac do, and they are now broken with no indication of when they will be fixed. In short, the game I've paid for is currently useless for the reason I bought it, and will be for the foreseeable future. Like I said, I don't even care about the new content. My goal was to continue playing the game that was working until they broke it. I don't care if they "want to keep porting for me" at this point, because they clearly don't value my business enough not to deliberately break the product I paid them for.

Edit: You're right, I shouldn't say they can "eat shit," and I apologize to anyone who was offended by that, including anyone from Aspyr who may be hanging out here. But the rest of what I said still stands. We are consumers just like everyone else, and we are not obligated to be grateful for whatever scraps we get because we're on a platform with lower market share. You know why? Because we are paying just as much as Windows users are paying. We are not being given a gift.

I understand your frustration here, and in some aspects you're absolutely correct, you've bought the game just like any other platform user.

But I believe your anger is misguided. They didn't break your game here, so far as I'm aware they didn't release an update, and that in turn has caused multiplayer to cease working between different game versions.

Now let's step back for a moment and see what's actually happened here.

2K are the primary developers of this game, they are the ones who've created the base game, DLC, and any required version/dlc checks for online play.

It seems to be 2K have released the Windows update (of which, Aspyr have no control over or say in) which has in turn caused multiplayer incompatibilities. No doubt, they were fully aware Aspyr were not ready. But they had announced a date, and had a deadline - and PR, managers etc etc said "Release it for Windows anyway, Linux and Mac users can wait".

It's true Aspyr didn't have the update ready in time, but they didn't do this on purpose, there could well be serious bugs that have caused them to not have the update ready in time, and naturally as I previously mentioned porters get the updates effectively last minute in development terms.

For all we know, 2K could have done a last minute bugfix update to the Windows version a few days prior to release, then sent it over to Aspyr who weren't able to ensure that bugfix works on Linux and Mac too, or it broke something on those platforms.

There are so many factors which can slow it down, it's really not funny. Sadly, Aspyr are not the primary developers, as such they have absolutely no say when a Windows update/DLC is dropped which can break compatibilities with other platforms.

Sad but true.

Unless we were find out exactly how and why this delay occurred, we can't really say it is fair to direct anger at them at this time.

And this is why it always hurts when we get developers who directly support us bought out by competition that will force them to drop said support (like inXile). I kind of always thought that Aspyr was a 'me too!' Porting house, as Feral has done far more for Linux with new tools and adopting Vulkan, etc than Aspyr has.
Guess we'll see how this progresses, but I can't imagine that Firaxis broke the multiplayer code so much that the Switch port would be so different than the Linux port.

I'm not sure if inXile will continue to support Linux in future titles or not but they continued to support us with Bard's Tale 4 even after they were purchased. The native version of BT4 runs really well as does the Windows version through Proton. Last year I did a review for BT4 and both the PR rep and inXile were very cooperative and friendly. They were interested in doing a Linux port properly, but they were also seemed interested in Valve's Proton tool and ProtonDB as well.

Where I have a problem with studios and publishers is when they drop support in the middle of a title with DLC and bug fixes. If they committed to a Linux port then it should be done well. If they don't want to port a title at all because it's not financially viable, I'm okay with that. Just don't bait and switch on me.

BT4 promised Linux support in the kickstarter, so if they'd not followed through, it would have given them a 'black eye' in that regard, and inXile knows that their fans are what make them successful.

Unfortunately this may change as generally the publisher has last say on what platforms are supported. Then we have the fence on which you have to sit to decide if you think 'well it works under Proton' is considered 'supported' or not.

The only way I'd consider that supported is if they actively made code changes to make sure that every new release of Proton kept working. Most games are really a hit and miss, where it may work on one version, but then some regressions break it on the next.