Plague Inc: The Cure DLC coming in early 2021 and free until COVID-19 is under control

Quoting: tuubiThat's fair. For me personally (as an introvert who is married to another introvert and whose income hasn't been affected at all) this hasn't been a huge problem.

The time in one's life where you learn that your style of life is called "social distancing"... ;)

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Mountain Man"...free until COVID-19 is under control"

Let's be honest, it's not the virus that's out of control, it's our governments.

Yeah, why not making fun of 1.5 million dead people?

I wasn't making fun of anything, just pointing out that the damage being done to us is not because of some virus that's out of control but because of how our governments' have responded. The fact is, someone in the world dies from something every single second of every single day, and government totalitarianism can't stop that.

Actually, I think there's quite a lot of evidence that it can. Not that government regulation can make people immortal, but it can sure as hell make them die somewhat later on average, whether it's seatbelts, or not allowing poison in our food or water or air, or safety standards at workplaces, or insisting that people stop at the nice red light.

The government might be able to reduce certain types of injuries and deaths through regulation, but overall human death rates do not rise or fall based on government mandates. And in the case of the Chinese cornoavirus, the "cure" -- reducing human socialization through fear; destroying economies; forcing people to stifle themselves with face coverings that have their own associated health risks quite apart from any influenza and don't actually prevent the transmission of illness -- may, in fact, be worse than the disease when all is said and done.

As Benjamin Franklin famously said, "Those who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Quoting: Mountain Man"Those who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

This.

Quoting: Mountain ManThe government might be able to reduce certain types of injuries and deaths through regulation, but overall human death rates do not rise or fall based on government mandates.

Deaths are reduced, but death rates do not fall. Aha...

You think the death rates shown for Spain during a lockdown would have been the same without measures?
The scientist in this field seem to disagree. And the data, too.
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/12/15/science.abd9338


Last edited by Eike on 21 December 2020 at 4:44 pm UTC

Quoting: Dorrit

Quoting: Mountain Man"Those who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

This.

1.5 million people have lost all their liberties.


Last edited by Eike on 21 December 2020 at 4:43 pm UTC

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Mountain ManThe government might be able to reduce certain types of injuries and deaths through regulation, but overall human death rates do not rise or fall based on government mandates.

Deaths are reduced, but death rates do not fall. Aha...

Not what I said. Government intrusion might be able to prevent certain types of injuries and deaths -- for instance, vehicle fatalities could theoretically be reduced by 100% if the government simply made vehicles illegal -- but you would find that the human population in general would still die at the same overall rate.

The biggest problem right now is that governments are operating on the logic of "We must do something about X; Y is something; therefore, we must do Y" which is the kind of thinking that leads totalitarian minded politicians to believe that any decision they make, no matter the consequences (both intended and unintended), is morally justified.

There was a curious study that was recently published (and then hastily covered-up) by Johns Hopkins showing that deaths in 2020 attributed to the Chinese coronavirus have risen in direct inverse proportion to deaths attributed to other causes like heart disease and cancer such that overall death rates are not significantly greater this year than the year before. In fact, on average, any person who contracts the Chinese coronavirus has a better than 99% chance of surviving without complications, and in many cases without requiring any sort of treatment. And yet our governments have destroyed hundreds of millions of people's lives in response.

Should our governments have done something in response to the Chinese coronovirus? Probably. Should they have necessarily done what they've done? Probably not. Like I said from the beginning, it's not the virus that's out of control, it's our governments.

Quoting: Mountain ManThe biggest problem right now is that governments are operating on the logic of "We must do something about X; Y is something; therefore, we must do Y" which is the kind of thinking that leads totalitarian minded politicians to believe that any decision they make, no matter the consequences (both intended and unintended), is morally justified.

Someone else might believe they could do something else is not an argument against anything. (There's even been peopel abusing Darwin's theories, so should we refrain from Darwin's theories?!?) There's real measures against a real threat that can be evaluated.

Quoting: Mountain ManThere was a curious study that was recently published (and then hastily covered-up) by Johns Hopkins showing that deaths in 2020 attributed to the Chinese coronavirus have risen in direct inverse proportion to deaths attributed to other causes like heart disease and cancer such that overall death rates are not significantly greater this year than the year before.

That's why I showed the Spanish numbers. It's quite obvious that (many) more people have died that wouldn't have died normally, and that Covid and other deaths do not sum up to nearly any normal amount of deaths - right? (I'm very surprised that at least here, such numbers haven't been shown in the news.)

Quoting: Mountain ManShould our governments have done something in response to the Chinese coronovirus? Probably. Should they have necessarily done what they've done? Probably not. Like I said from the beginning, it's not the virus that's out of control, it's our governments.

We might find out afterwards that there's been measures that didn't help too much or were not worth it. And/or that there would have been other great measures that would have inflicted less problems. But there's been exponential(!) rise of deaths, way over what's normal, and nobody knew (or knows now) how to best stop it. The king of Sweden, the country which used to be the example of people opposing the measures at least in Europe, recently admited that they've been doing it wrong and payed the death toll. Where ever you are from, the virus in your town is as dangerous as the one in Spain and Sweden. They had to do something serious about it.


Last edited by Eike on 21 December 2020 at 6:19 pm UTC

Quoting: Mountain ManAs Benjamin Franklin famously said, "Those who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

The man did have a way with words, but just like we do, he gave up some of his liberties for a measure of safety. Living in a society involves quite a lot of compromise.

But tell me, what do you think he meant by "essential liberties"? The liberty to not wear a mask in public during a pandemic perhaps? The liberty to not give a rat's ass about the health and well-being of others? Sure don't sound essential to me.

I guess the quote wouldn't have quite the same impact if it said "temporarily give up some liberties for the common good" instead.

Quoting: Mountain Manthe Chinese coronavirus

Parroting this xenophobic name invented by American right-wing politicians really underlines your ignorance.

If governments hadn't intervened and hospitals and doctors were free to work with patients this would have been solved by now and without the need for vaccines because there are therapies effective enough.
It's not that governments minimized the problem; they created it. Central Power is the problem, always is.

Quoting: DorritIf governments hadn't intervened and hospitals and doctors were free to work with patients this would have been solved by now and without the need for vaccines because there are therapies effective enough.

Most medical scientists and professionals would agree with you that certain governments have done more harm than good. But they wouldn't be blaming the governments that actually listened to their advice and worked with them to limit the spread.