Google shutting their internal game dev studios, focusing directly on Stadia tech

Support costs for a huge variety of systems, compared to cloud servers or console systems.

Here we are on a site dedicated to gaming on Linux, hopeful that one day games will be natively released for the platform, and you raised the point that if developers decide to forego local releases entirely, which Stadia could lead to, then it would be because of support costs assosciated with supporting another platform. That means exclusion of support even for Windows, making it the entire PC platform. You just proved how Stadia can become a bad thing in the long run.

Yes, and I never said anything different. You said "there is no reason to not release game both locally and through cloud." There is! Variety of systems, hardware and software wise. I bought a single whitelisted Proton game and only Linux native games otherwise, but that doesn't mean I've got my eyes closed. There are - unfortunately - reasons why people/companies would not release games for Linux despite supporting Stadia. And yes, this is an additional threat for native PC gaming, and especially for native Linux gaming.

Yep, but PC gaming is a beast of it's own with sought out features that you can't find on any console. Any serious developper knows about that.

Microsoft tried to kill 32bit support... Remember? That was a much bigger threat to PC gaming than Stadia... Same logic applies.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 February 2021 at 1:32 pm UTC

It'll work if people turn out to be willing to go there en masse. But if dropping local PC play means losing a bunch of sales, they'll grudgingly go back to it. Software makers of all stripes have been trying to move to subscription models and so forth practically since there's been software, and they only pull it off now and then. So we'll see.

Wouldn't you say the conditions for moving to such models is better this time around? Before streaming began to rise as it has this past few years, there was only consoles. Weak argument to forego local releases on PC platform. But these days they can save themselves the trouble of software and hardware variety by making their games available on Geforce Now or Stadia. Cost cutting and get them that extra money they constantly want.

Yes, and I never said anything different. You said "there is no reason to not release game both locally and through cloud." There is! Variety of systems, hardware and software wise. I bought a single whitelisted Proton game and only Linux native games otherwise, but that doesn't mean I've got my eyes closed. There are - unfortunately - reasons why people/companies would not release games for Linux despite supporting Stadia. And yes, this is an additional threat for native PC gaming, and especially for native Linux gaming.

I was wrong, and you made a good point. I'm not trying to refute what you said but I'd say the software variety is to a good degree cause by the industry themselves. Take Tim Sweeney as example, for someone who often uses the two words "open platform" you'd think he would direct his company towards Vulkan API but he doesn't. Why? Most likely because he has agreements with Microsoft. It is instances like this that makes developing for Linux to high of a cost.

So the solution to reduce costs for PC is to standardize software for game development. But sadly developers largely don't do that, just look at Vulkan adoption, they gravitate towards software that are bad for consumers in so many of the cases. But I would bet they would never care to adress the issue by standardizing software, e.g striving to make Vulkan the graphics API for game development, because ultimately it comes down to they want money. And why bother making PC better when you can be lazy and rely on streaming.

You got valid theoretical points, but seriously... Come on guys... The end of PC gaming (or PC altogether) has been announced so many times, in the last 20 years... I'm not affraid in the least.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 February 2021 at 1:45 pm UTC

You got valid theoretical points, but seriously... Come on guys... The end of PC gaming (or PC altogether) has been announced so many times, in the last 20 years... I'm not afraid in the least.

You should be worried at very least. Change takes time, and it won't happen so suddenly that you will notice it. IPhone sold 2.2 billion units according to wikipedia (Nov 1 2008). Back then there was less predatory practices on PC. The bad practices of microtransactions and lootboxes was more prevalent and bigger on mobile than they were on PC. I'd say the reason why is because many smartphone owners, many who were not gamers, did not have preexisting expectations of games and what should be in them as opposed to console and PC gamers. In less than a decade (aligning roughly with IPhone popularity) the sewer slowly leaked to PC platform and now the platform is a cesspool. In last 20 years streaming had not been as big of a thing as it is now and many of game companies were not as big and as independent as they are now.


Last edited by Linuxwarper on 5 February 2021 at 2:15 pm UTC

You got valid theoretical points, but seriously... Come on guys... The end of PC gaming (or PC altogether) has been announced so many times, in the last 20 years... I'm not afraid in the least.

You should be worried at very least. Change takes time, and it won't happen so suddenly that you will notice it. IPhone sold 2.2 billion units according to wikipedia (Nov 1 2008). Back then there was less predatory practices on PC. The bad practices of microtransactions and lootboxes was more prevalent and bigger on mobile than they were on PC. I'd say the reason why is because many smartphone owners, many who were not gamers, did not have preexisting expectations of games and what should be in them as opposed to console and PC gamers. In less than a decade (aligning roughly with IPhone popularity) the sewer slowly leaked to PC platform and now the platform is a cesspool. In last 20 years streaming had not been as big of a thing as it is now and many of game companies were not as big and as independent as they are now.

... And, if ever it happens, which I highly doubt, yourself, will have abandonned the platform for something better and PC gaming will die in absolute indifference. That's usually how it happens.

Seriously, there are games that are just unfit for console use. I don't see that going anywhere soon. As long as there will be PC Gamers, there will be PC Gaming.

Streaming doesn't offer what a PC offers. It offers an alternative to consoles.


Last edited by Mohandevir on 5 February 2021 at 2:39 pm UTC

Second, Stadia itself, at the server level, is Linux. That means:
2a) For a game to be on Stadia, developers had to develop it on Linux and
2b) The game has to be, somewhere out there, running on Linux.

Counterpoint: Android runs on Linux, but the development is so different that it's not like we see a bunch of Android <-> Linux cross-ports outside of things that started life on the Linux side.
The PS4/PS5 and Apple ecosystems are all underpinned by BSD, and I certainly don't see a ton of FreeBSD-native games.

Just because Stadia 'runs on Linux/Vulkan' doesn't necessarily mean that it's not also abstracted to heck on top of that. Could be something like Proton, or just another iOS/PS OS ecosystem style layer on top. Just because it's running the Linux kernel + video drivers doesn't mean it's 1:1 with your typical desktop Linux solution in terms of the libraries and things game devs are focused on.

'Stadia means Linux-native games' is of the same caliber as 'Android means Linux-native games', IMO. Technically correct (the best kind of correct!), but not what most of us here are hoping for, I feel.

Stadia we do know a little about, and there's been more than one developer to say that if it runs on desktop GNU/Linux, it'll run basically the same as on Stadia. In fact, and I quote, "if you have Linux binaries that don't link to libstdc++ (i.e. use Clang and libc++ instead) and don't use X11/Wayland there is a 99.99% chance that your existing binaries (yes, not just the code, the binaries) will work just fine on Stadia." From flibitijibibo, on porting Celeste to Stadia.

I can't say that's a compelling argument. Celeste, although seemingly a good game, is a small indie game. It's nowhere the size of games like Metro Exodus and Cyberpunk in software complexity. So I'd say basing Stadia games being scaled to desktop Linux on Celeste doesn't come off as convincing. Fortunately Metro Exodus enhanced version is releasing this year, which is likely when it comes to Linux, so won't need to wait long for tangible proof.

Here is some food for thought; if scaling Stadia release to desktop Linux is quite effortless, then what does that say about gaming industry? To me it says they are not only greedy but also corrupt, assuming they aren't corrupt already and aren't safeguarding Windows ecosystem.

Can't help but link to a YT video from Linus: The death of cloud gaming
The talk is right at the start of the video and takes about 15 min, but for a TL;DW that resonates with me:

The pitch for stadia, really the pitch for cloud gaming in general to me, if you wanna truly take off, is that is supposed to deliver gaming experiences that were otherwise impossible.
...................................
The point is: the killer app for cloud gaming was supposed to be gaming experiences that we couldn't otherwise achieve. That was the sales pitch.
And what Google needed to do is understand that it was going to take time and have some fucking patience for a change.

Last edited by dubigrasu on 6 February 2021 at 2:48 pm UTC

The pitch for stadia, really the pitch for cloud gaming in general to me, if you wanna truly take off, is that is supposed to deliver gaming experiences that were otherwise impossible.
...................................
The point is: the killer app for cloud gaming was supposed to be gaming experiences that we couldn't otherwise achieve. That was the sales pitch.
And what Google needed to do is understand that it was going to take time and have some fucking patience for a change.

I don't think that's the main selling point for most people. That would be, IMHO, that you "rent" decent hardware instead of buying it and can play e.g. on your mediocre home office box.

The pitch for stadia, really the pitch for cloud gaming in general to me, if you wanna truly take off, is that is supposed to deliver gaming experiences that were otherwise impossible.
...................................
The point is: the killer app for cloud gaming was supposed to be gaming experiences that we couldn't otherwise achieve. That was the sales pitch.
And what Google needed to do is understand that it was going to take time and have some fucking patience for a change.

I don't think that's the main selling point for most people. That would be, IMHO, that you "rent" decent hardware instead of buying it and can play e.g. on your mediocre home office box.

True point, people can still merrily use Stadia and not give a second thought to the "cloud gaming" as envisioned and promised by Google, just like they can do on any other streaming service.

But while "true cloud-gaming" might not be seen as a selling point now, it could have been a strong one in the future, one that could truly make a difference in the way we see, play and think about games. One that could really differentiate Stadia from the rest. Killing SG&E though eliminated that from the future timeline.

And that's the thing, apart from some extra features, three's not much difference from the rest. They're now just another streaming service in the crowd, and some others, frankly, have better offers.
..........

Boy, I hate when I have to edit one single letter typo and then I have to carry that "last edited by etc etc" badge...


Last edited by dubigrasu on 6 February 2021 at 6:27 pm UTC

EA just announced they're putting FIFA on Stadia in March. Interesting timing...

Yeah... But... Where is NHL21?!

I used to play the NHL games. But buying them every year I started to realize how repetitive they got. I think the last one I have is NHL 2002. I haven't paid much attention to them in years. Last I heard the PC versions of the game didn't get the attention that the console versions got and were missing features. Is that still the case? Or do they even release the PC version anymore?

I'm very glad to hear this, feel kinda bad for the jobs lost.

But every single company out there thinks they are doing "the next step in gaming" and they are trying so hard to reinvent the wheel, without asking gamers themselves if they asked for those "steps".

Valve with that VR crap and then Google making us play remotely and putting the games "we are renting" behind the worst DRM wall ever.

The very next good news to my ears is Valve is scraping VR bs and making single-player games for EVERYONE.
Have a good day.

I'm very glad to hear this, feel kinda bad for the jobs lost.

But every single company out there thinks they are doing "the next step in gaming" and they are trying so hard to reinvent the wheel, without asking gamers themselves if they asked for those "steps".

In all aspects of life we all benefit from all kind of inventions and innovations that nobody asked for, heck, nobody asked for video games.

Video games were born out of small fun experiments with professional computers that weren't made for gaming, and with continuous incremental innovations we got where we are today. I wouldn't want to stop this process, to stifle innovations just because I am content with the status quo.

Both cloud gaming and VR are the next steps in this searching process, they will continue to exist and grow with or without Google or Valve, until of course the future will decide their usefulness.

EA just announced they're putting FIFA on Stadia in March. Interesting timing...

Yeah... But... Where is NHL21?!

I used to play the NHL games. But buying them every year I started to realize how repetitive they got. I think the last one I have is NHL 2002. I haven't paid much attention to them in years. Last I heard the PC versions of the game didn't get the attention that the console versions got and were missing features. Is that still the case? Or do they even release the PC version anymore?

In fact, the last PC version is 2009. It's not even in 1080p.

The pitch for stadia, really the pitch for cloud gaming in general to me, if you wanna truly take off, is that is supposed to deliver gaming experiences that were otherwise impossible.
...................................
The point is: the killer app for cloud gaming was supposed to be gaming experiences that we couldn't otherwise achieve. That was the sales pitch.
And what Google needed to do is understand that it was going to take time and have some fucking patience for a change.

I don't think that's the main selling point for most people. That would be, IMHO, that you "rent" decent hardware instead of buying it and can play e.g. on your mediocre home office box.

True point, people can still merrily use Stadia and not give a second thought to the "cloud gaming" as envisioned and promised by Google, just like they can do on any other streaming service.

But while "true cloud-gaming" might not be seen as a selling point now, it could have been a strong one in the future, one that could truly make a difference in the way we see, play and think about games. One that could really differentiate Stadia from the rest. Killing SG&E though eliminated that from the future timeline.

And that's the thing, apart from some extra features, three's not much difference from the rest. They're now just another streaming service in the crowd, and some others, frankly, have better offers.
..........

Boy, I hate when I have to edit one single letter typo and then I have to carry that "last edited by etc etc" badge...

I don't know for sure out it fits the situation, but they launched Stadia State Share with Hitman 3... A title they didn't internally develop. Couldn't the same be done for other new features?

EA just announced they're putting FIFA on Stadia in March. Interesting timing...

Yeah... But... Where is NHL21?!

I used to play the NHL games. But buying them every year I started to realize how repetitive they got. I think the last one I have is NHL 2002. I haven't paid much attention to them in years. Last I heard the PC versions of the game didn't get the attention that the console versions got and were missing features. Is that still the case? Or do they even release the PC version anymore?

In fact, the last PC version is 2009. It's not even in 1080p.

I usually spend my time actually playing hockey. But since there is no beer league hockey going on with the pandemic measures, I might have picked up the latest version of the EA game.

Steam has Bush League Hockey, which seems like it's trying to look like the SNES era version of the EA games. But the reviews are mixed.

The pitch for stadia, really the pitch for cloud gaming in general to me, if you wanna truly take off, is that is supposed to deliver gaming experiences that were otherwise impossible.
...................................
The point is: the killer app for cloud gaming was supposed to be gaming experiences that we couldn't otherwise achieve. That was the sales pitch.
And what Google needed to do is understand that it was going to take time and have some fucking patience for a change.

I don't think that's the main selling point for most people. That would be, IMHO, that you "rent" decent hardware instead of buying it and can play e.g. on your mediocre home office box.

True point, people can still merrily use Stadia and not give a second thought to the "cloud gaming" as envisioned and promised by Google, just like they can do on any other streaming service.

But while "true cloud-gaming" might not be seen as a selling point now, it could have been a strong one in the future, one that could truly make a difference in the way we see, play and think about games. One that could really differentiate Stadia from the rest. Killing SG&E though eliminated that from the future timeline.

And that's the thing, apart from some extra features, three's not much difference from the rest. They're now just another streaming service in the crowd, and some others, frankly, have better offers.
..........

Boy, I hate when I have to edit one single letter typo and then I have to carry that "last edited by etc etc" badge...

I don't know for sure out it fits the situation, but they launched Stadia State Share with Hitman 3... A title they didn't internally develop. Couldn't the same be done for other new features?

Yes, like I said, they still have some extra cloud features (state share, crowd play, builtin streaming), but they're still features that can be applied to any plain "normal" game. Nothing revolutionary. A true cloud game can be much more beyond that.

All the worlds within the current games are limited by your computer capabilities, imagine that limit, all those barriers eliminated. Think what your best computer can do versus what a super computer can.

Put a bunch of smart young developers in a room and tell them, you have thousand of GPUs at your disposal and the sky is the limit, let you imagination run wild and make a game with it. I'm pretty sure a game like this would blow our minds. And then play it on your laptop in your bedroom.

Look, I can't pretend that I know exactly how a game like that would look or be like, I'm too old and entrenched in the current way of thinking about how games should be, and that why I was so excited by this premise. I was ready to be amazed.


Last edited by dubigrasu on 7 February 2021 at 7:26 pm UTC

EA just announced they're putting FIFA on Stadia in March. Interesting timing...

Yeah... But... Where is NHL21?!

I used to play the NHL games. But buying them every year I started to realize how repetitive they got. I think the last one I have is NHL 2002. I haven't paid much attention to them in years. Last I heard the PC versions of the game didn't get the attention that the console versions got and were missing features. Is that still the case? Or do they even release the PC version anymore?

In fact, the last PC version is 2009. It's not even in 1080p.

I usually spend my time actually playing hockey. But since there is no beer league hockey going on with the pandemic measures, I might have picked up the latest version of the EA game.

Steam has Bush League Hockey, which seems like it's trying to look like the SNES era version of the EA games. But the reviews are mixed.

And this one, which looks like NES Ice Hockey:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/532190/Super_Blood_Hockey/

Boy, I hate when I have to edit one single letter typo and then I have to carry that "last edited by etc etc" badge...

Same here! :D
It's... soiled!

Getting worse by the day...

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/rtx30series-laptops-mining-ethereum