Valve banning games that allow exchanging cryptocurrencies or NFTs

Quote...they don't allow items that can have real-world value on their platform...

Are we talking about the same Valve here? Team Fortress 2 and CS:GO would beg to differ!

To me, cryptocurrencies sound like nothing more than a scam.

But more importantly, remember that behind every rule is a story. I have to wonder what has been going on behind the scenes.

There are a few confounding things here then what a simple pro- or aniti- crypto narrative can explain.

1) There are very real regulatory issues with creating a forum for exchanging stuff with real world value. Securities, gambling and anti money laundering laws are no joke.

2) Valve has an extensive market of skins, trading cards, and other items - one that they control entirely and earn a good commission on. So there is a real avenue of self interest they are protecting.

3) Using this kind of stuff in a meaningful way pretty much demands self custody. Which means lost or stolen keys can cost someone very large sums of real enough money. And to be honest - the vast majority of PC users aren't technically up for safe self-custody.

4) This stuff is an innovative way to get community buy in and funding for development. Whether it can scale and operate in a healthy way though really remains to be seen.

Interesting to see how a digital platform can be anti-digital currency. I wonder which government has been leaning on them, considering China's recent actions regarding bitcoin et al..

I consider myself a crypto-proponent, but I still think this is a good move for now.

In my mind, NFTs feed into the worst instincts of blockchain technologies: bubble-based speculative investing. These elements have no place on a gaming platform, and hopefully, Valve will continue in this direction.

Crypto-based transactions are more complicated. I think that games that allow both buying and selling crypto-assets will descend into Coinbase with pretty graphics. However, simply using crypto as a transactional currency to purchase in-game items should be allowed. The only counterpoint I can think of is that regular people do not understand crypto enough to treat it responsibly. I believe there is some truth to that, but I can see this becoming less and less of a factor in the next year or two.

It's good that Valve has a policy at all. Policies can be changed, and I think this one should be down the line. However, I can't blame them for being cautious, considering the upcoming launch of the Steam Deck.

Quoting: superboybotCrypto-based transactions are more complicated. I think that games that allow both buying and selling crypto-assets will descend into Coinbase with pretty graphics. However, simply using crypto as a transactional currency to purchase in-game items should be allowed. The only counterpoint I can think of is that regular people do not understand crypto enough to treat it responsibly. I believe there is some truth to that, but I can see this becoming less and less of a factor in the next year or two.

This is just in-game currency with more steps.

Quoting: WorMzyInteresting to see how a digital platform can be anti-digital currency. I wonder which government has been leaning on them, considering China's recent actions regarding bitcoin et al..

If I were to go down that rabbit hole, my guess would be the USA, but it could be any country as most of them don't like untraceable currency.

But I'm not going down that rabbit hole... my theory is that crypto has been too much of a problem for Steam users and Valve was forced to step in.

I think it's most likely the bad actors causing a "this is why we can't have nice things" effect.

Pretty sure it's for regulatory reasons and not a decision stemming from Valve's own philosophy. They're just covering their behind.


Last edited by pb on 15 October 2021 at 9:34 pm UTC

Quoting: katp32

Quote...they don't allow items that can have real-world value on their platform...

Are we talking about the same Valve here? Team Fortress 2 and CS:GO would beg to differ!

The issue is with how you could "redeem" the items outside the game for real money, and a bunch of problems it could cause. Valve has cracked down on CS skin gambling sites, for example. The terms of service probably also set some limits to what you can and can't do, though they might not be respected (like not selling accounts).

Most games with in-game currency state that you can't "cash in" that currency for real-world money. Even if you sell items in the steam marketplace, it shouldn't be possible to take the money out of your steam wallet, it is only store credit. (If you buy credit, you might be able to get a refund, but for things like gift cards or selling items nope)

The reasons are quite obvious: money laundering, gambling, scams. Probably illegal, but even if not I don't think Steam would like to kick this wasp nest.

If they can't fully control it, they can't squeeze profit out of it.

Once they figure out how to do that, legally, it'll be ok again.

I must be out of the loop. What's an NFT? I'd look it up, but acronyms are notoriously bad for searching.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI must be out of the loop. What's an NFT? I'd look it up, but acronyms are notoriously bad for searching.

Non-fungible token.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI must be out of the loop. What's an NFT? I'd look it up, but acronyms are notoriously bad for searching.

Essentially it's a unique link pointing at a copy of some kind of artwork or other JPG, which is sold and traded among the suck...investors. They, and often the seller, do not have rights to the art itself, what they're selling is just the link to it.

It's as foolish as it sounds. And why they derisively (and hilariously) call people not into the scam "right clickers", because they can just save the jpgs and have just as much right to them.

NFT "games", or more realistically life support for the NFT storefront, basically involve the player getting in-game items by buying corresponding NFTs, which undoubtedly ends up costing more than the worst mobile games could even dream of. It's pay-to-win on steroids, and those steroids are on steroids.

Oh, that's wonderful news!

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI must be out of the loop. What's an NFT? I'd look it up, but acronyms are notoriously bad for searching.

It stands for "Non-Fungible Token". It's like a bitcoin, except it is unique, and it is a certificate of ownership for something (usually some art). Just a "certificate" with a hyperlink, not even a real file, and even that is already so large it costs a ton of electricity and computing power to "mint" it. Since it is in the blockchain you can't just create a copy but you can transfer it to someone else - so it is actually like a decentralized notebook where you write down who owns the moon and the purchase history for it.

Imagine the bullshit of rich art collectors and the bullshit of cryptocurrencies. People are spending a ton of money in NFTs because of the promise of selling their "unique pieces of art".

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI must be out of the loop. What's an NFT? I'd look it up, but acronyms are notoriously bad for searching.

Non-fungible token.

Thanks!

Quoting: NezchanEssentially it's a unique link pointing at a copy of some kind of artwork or other JPG, which is sold and traded among the suck...investors. They, and often the seller, do not have rights to the art itself, what they're selling is just the link to it.

It's as foolish as it sounds. And why they derisively (and hilariously) call people not into the scam "right clickers", because they can just save the jpgs and have just as much right to them.

Thanks! That's . . . um . . . amazing.

Quoting: eldakingImagine the bullshit of rich art collectors and the bullshit of cryptocurrencies. People are spending a ton of money in NFTs because of the promise of selling their "unique pieces of art".

Thanks! I'm trying to figure out whether this counts as something new (if ridiculous) under the sun, or only counts as one more manifestation of the very old concept "There's a sucker born every minute".


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 16 October 2021 at 4:44 am UTC

I see people all over the web comparing NFTs directly to cosmetic shops. Its quite frustrating how many people have no idea what NFTs are or how they work.

first blood!

NFTs sole purpose is to have another thing to speculate - in other words "to hope to leech money from someone else without a service in return".
So i'm all for removing this cancer whereever possible.
(And yes, if i could decide i also would ban speculation with ressources, stocks and so on)

There is two issues people seems to miss:

• Steam is making a commission on the Market / What about the CS:GO / TF2 / Dota items that are worth $20k: Steam Market is 100% within Valve's pocket, until you actually meet in person like the day of old of CS:GO and Dota trading for trades that, IIRC, are literally disallowed by the EULA of the platform. For the whole "commission", it's void by design: when you put money in your wallet, it's 100% into Valve, period. The "decay" that the 20% or so apply is a way to keep the value up: if you have only input of money, you will only have inflation, so the decay count part of it. Especially since Dota for example actually input shitload of items (so their value is only going down overtimes as there is no items breaking). But all of that start and end in the market.


• NFT and Crypto legal definition and real value. Legal tender is what is actually money, which depending on the law may have a few key difference (US law seems to allow refusing legal tender, which is straight up illegal in French law: if one pay with legal tender, it's mandatory to accept it), but overall it's something that let you pay monetary debts. Credit cards aren't legal tender, coins are. Because coins can be certified as being valuable enough (the whole minting process). Because they are legal tender, anybody pretty much is guaranteed for an effective worth. Crypto for example does the trust part, but have no legal tangibility, so it's up to a company to accept it or not. And neither the NFT nor the Crypto have real world physical backing. Which make them subject to being subject of extreme variations, be it inflation or anything.

I think Valve get the best way to do, for now at least. Cut short the whole issue, especially if they have to step in, it means shit hit the fan already.