There's been a huge amount of talk recently about switching to Linux for gaming, thanks to the challenge from Linus Tech Tips (YouTube) where two of their people tried the full-switch but it didn't go so well for Linus and Pop!_OS. Now, System76 are trying to improve.
It was pretty unfortunate that as Linus was going to install Steam, Pop's packaging had some sort of breakage that wasn't quite picked up and Linus ended up hosing the Pop desktop install. You can easily do some finger-pointing on where the real blame lies here from Pop not ensuring a major package like Steam works correctly before it's pushed to users, to Linus ignoring the (what should be) pretty-clear warning message:
Oh no, please, Linus — don't do it! Linus did it.
The point remains the same regardless, and throwing around pointy-fingers isn't really helpful. It shouldn't have happened, it's as simple as that. Loading up the Pop!_Shop GUI and telling it to install Steam should have been enough. Going by what System76 engineer Jeremy Soller said on Twitter, the cause was this:
"For some reason, an i386 version of a package was never published on Launchpad. Steam being an i386 package, when trying to install it, it had to downgrade that package to the Ubuntu version to resolve dependencies, which removed Pop!_OS packages.".
One thing System76 has now done to prevent such almighty breakage in future, is to patch APT (the package manager), in Pop to prevent users being able to see the "Yes, do as I say!" prompt by default. Unless, they add a special file to actually enable it. On top of that, another System76 developer Jacob Kauffmann mentioned on GitHub their plans to "make further improvements" to the Pop!_Shop GUI so that "users don't have to fall back to the terminal in the first place". Sounds like lessons learned, and hopefully smooth sailing for users in future.
Update: a new version of APT brings in its own improvements for this.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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The comments on this article are closed.
Quoting: kaktuspalmeQuoting: F.UltraOr rather, not being able to uninstall the desktop would of course work but then we no longer can uninstall the desktop which removes the power that Linux gives you.I agree, but in Linux we have the freedom to choose whichever distribution we like. But distributions focused on average users should be "non-breakable" and thus maybe even limit your freedom. Personally I wouldn't like to use such a distribution but I would recommend such a distribution for the average user.
Ah ok, yes you might be on to something here. A distro specifically for for Windows refugees!
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Quoting: AsciiWolfSteam, for example. There were many problems with that package, I helped solve some of them (in collaboration with other Ubuntu community volunteers), but it was really pain in the arse and the package is still regularly broken and outdated.
So it's outdated and broken? That would be odd, since I'm using it every day.
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Quoting: scaineQuoting: AsciiWolfSteam, for example. There were many problems with that package, I helped solve some of them (in collaboration with other Ubuntu community volunteers), but it was really pain in the arse and the package is still regularly broken and outdated.
So it's outdated and broken? That would be odd, since I'm using it every day.
Not to mention that the steam package is just a shim that downloads the real installer from Valve.
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Quoting: scaineSo it's outdated and broken? That would be odd, since I'm using it every day.It's hopefully not that broken since I helped fix the worst parts for 20.04, but it's still problematic and outdated when compared to the official deb package from Valve. For example the version in LTS 20.04 is from March 2020 and was never updated[1].
[1] https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/s/steam/steam_1.0.0.61-2ubuntu3/changelog
Quoting: F.UltraNot to mention that the steam package is just a shim that downloads the real installer from Valve.Except that it also has to handle dependencies (that change with time, especially with Pressure Vessel and VR stuff), ship udev rules for VR/controllers and do other things.
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Quoting: AsciiWolfQuoting: scaineSo it's outdated and broken? That would be odd, since I'm using it every day.It's hopefully not that broken since I helped fix the worst parts for 20.04, but it's still problematic and outdated when compared to the official deb package from Valve. For example the version in LTS 20.04 is from March 2020 and was never updated[1].
[1] https://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/multiverse/s/steam/steam_1.0.0.61-2ubuntu3/changelog
Quoting: F.UltraNot to mention that the steam package is just a shim that downloads the real installer from Valve.Except that it also has to handle dependencies (that change with time, especially with Pressure Vessel and VR stuff), ship udev rules for VR/controllers and do other things.
Yes I forgot about the udev rules for the controllers! I do think that the steam package should be redone completely as a pure shim that just downloads the valve-hosted .deb and run that.
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Cloversheen Nov 11, 2021
Quoting: EikeQuoting: shorbergQuoting: Guest"Normies" don't ask for help when they're uncertain about things? Because that sounds counter-intuitive.
That is actually true.
Your average user, sometimes negatively referred to as "normies", generally don't ask questions from experts for the same reason I don't ask questions from fashion experts on what colours go together.
I guess that's why you and me and most of us are never asked by friends, family and even close-to-strangers: "You know your stuff with computers, right?!? How can I ..."
Oh wait...
Correct. Do note that everyone you mentioned above are people who know you personally in another context, and as you mentioned "you know your stuff with computers, right?!? [...]" and not "as an expert, [...]". The second clue there is in the ", right?!?".
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Quoting: sudoerSomeone should tell him that GNU/Linux is NOT M$ Windoze, but a different beast (the car vs. motorcycle analogy) so he should change his approach and mindset, embracing the new (awesome) toy and reading its manual.
As someone who works with the average Windows user on a day-to-day basis, this is absolutely the wrong approach to take if you want anyone to care about Linux outside of our little niche subculture. The average user does not want to read the manual. They want their system to Just Work. A good portion of them don't even know how the Windows Control panel works, and many don't care to know. They want it to just run, and they really, really don't care how or why.
If you want the Linux desktop to stay a niche, it's fine to insist that people read the manual and be willing to work on their desktops. That is the perfect way to ensure that no one in the mainstream ever gives Linux a second glance. For anyone who doesn't live in this small group, though, the barometer is not 'this thing is already cool and I like it for what it is', but 'does this thing do what I want it to easy and without any more hassle than Windows does'.
I hate Windows. Like, with a passion. The average user doesn't even know what an Operating System is. As much as it pains me to see LTT completely ignore the warnings, his way of approaching it is the way that an average user is going to approach it. And ultimately, they are the ones we have to think about if we ever want to see wider adoption and some love thrown our way.
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Quoting: dubigrasuQuoting: x_wingBTW, is certainly very important to also notice the issues that they other guy from LTT had with mint. The shit show that was his UI due to Nvidia open source drivers is also a big heads up (yet another fuck you to Nvidia I guess).If is about the multimonitors issues that he had, that's a common Linux problem, Nvidia or not, with the exact same type of fuckups that Luke had, wrong monitor order, weird mouse problems, plus games starting wherever the hell they want.
Being AMD user myself I gave up on using two monitors, because is yes, a shit show. They work most of the time (sort of) except when you need them the most. I just went through a good part of the day cursing at my two screens while trying to make them do what I want (basically having OBS running on the second monitor):
Can I please start the game on the big monitor? No.
Then at least can I move it after? No, I don't want that.
How about you let me to... No, I don't feel like.
Not even?...No.
What if?...No.
But?...No.
So is fuck you AMD or Linux I guess, just to be fair?
On Windows I can connect two monitors or more, and use them as you see fit, they simply obey you. On Linux is a fight between you and them. Of course, is Linux, and you have ways to beat them into submission, but that's beside the point.
(I guess it shows that I had a bad day)
The bug that he got was far away from an issue with the monitor selection. Something was very wrong in the driver.
Regarding the issues with monitor selection, I don't recall the last time that KDE gave me problems with that. But when it did, using xrandr scripts with the proper setup did the trick. For the games, I normally set the primary monitor and if for some reason it starts in the secondary, I simply drag the game to the main panel (alt + left click & drag).
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Quoting: x_wingYou mean the one with the mouse showing in one place and clicking in another? Yes, I had that one too on AMD, I'm not even surprised when it shows up, "oh, that thing again".Quoting: dubigrasuQuoting: x_wingBTW, is certainly very important to also notice the issues that they other guy from LTT had with mint. The shit show that was his UI due to Nvidia open source drivers is also a big heads up (yet another fuck you to Nvidia I guess).If is about the multimonitors issues that he had, that's a common Linux problem, Nvidia or not, with the exact same type of fuckups that Luke had, wrong monitor order, weird mouse problems, plus games starting wherever the hell they want.
Being AMD user myself I gave up on using two monitors, because is yes, a shit show. They work most of the time (sort of) except when you need them the most. I just went through a good part of the day cursing at my two screens while trying to make them do what I want (basically having OBS running on the second monitor):
Can I please start the game on the big monitor? No.
Then at least can I move it after? No, I don't want that.
How about you let me to... No, I don't feel like.
Not even?...No.
What if?...No.
But?...No.
So is fuck you AMD or Linux I guess, just to be fair?
On Windows I can connect two monitors or more, and use them as you see fit, they simply obey you. On Linux is a fight between you and them. Of course, is Linux, and you have ways to beat them into submission, but that's beside the point.
(I guess it shows that I had a bad day)
The bug that he got was far away from an issue with the monitor selection. Something was very wrong in the driver.
Regarding the issues with monitor selection, I don't recall the last time that KDE gave me problems with that. But when it did, using xrandr scripts with the proper setup did the trick. For the games, I normally set the primary monitor and if for some reason it starts in the secondary, I simply drag the game to the main panel (alt + left click & drag).
As for workarounds, yes, I also use various scripts to force my monitors to do what I want depending on the specific task. But they are simple tasks, and all this xrandr brouhaha should not be needed. Nvidia/Amd/whatever, is a hassle enough that I'm just better with a single monitor.
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Quoting: dubigrasuYou mean the one with the mouse showing in one place and clicking in another? Yes, I had that one too on AMD, I'm not even surprised when it shows up, "oh, that thing again".
As for workarounds, yes, I also use various scripts to force my monitors to do what I want depending on the specific task. But they are simple tasks, and all this xrandr brouhaha should not be needed. Nvidia/Amd/whatever, is a hassle enough that I'm just better with a single monitor.
If xrandr can fix your issue, then the problem is your DE, not the driver. The weird issue to mention on the second guy is the offset of the screen.
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