Were you hoping to easily play Fortnite on the upcoming Steam Deck? Well, Tim Sweeney the Epic Games CEO has made it clear that it's not going to happen officially. The thing to remember right now is that both Easy Anti-Cheat and BattlEye do support Linux. Both for native Linux builds and for Windows games run through Steam Play Proton. However, it's all user-space with no Kernel modules.
On Twitter, user Stormy178 asked if there were plans to make Fortnite compatible with Steam Play Proton to which Sweeney replied:
Fortnite no, but there's a big effort underway to maximize Easy Anti Cheat compatibility with Steam Deck.
The questioning continued and when asked why, Sweeney followed up with:
We don’t have confidence that we’d be able to combat cheating at scale under a wide array of kernel configurations including custom ones.
Another user mentioned it seemed that Epic's CEO didn't trust their own product, Sweeney obviously couldn't let that remain unanswered with:
With regard to anti-cheat on the Linux platform supporting custom kernels and the threat model to a game of Fortnite's size, YES THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT!
In a number of ways, he's actually right. Windows is closed source, so is the NT Kernel and usually 99% of drivers for it are too. Client-side anti-cheat obviously relies a lot on security by obscurity, so people can't see everything it's doing. This is part of the problem on Linux, where the Kernel and practically all development on it is done right out in the open and it changes rapidly. Developing anti-cheat against such an open Kernel probably isn't going to be even remotely easy. There will be ways though, especially if something like the Steam Deck had a fully signed Kernel and some sort of guarantee it's being used - probably numerous ways smarter people know of.
Really though, overall it doesn't give a lot of confidence for developers who might be looking to hook up their anti-cheat ready for their games to work on the Steam Deck.
The big difference it seems, is the size of the playerbase and how much of a target each game is. Sweeney is not saying it's not suitable as a whole, just that Fortnite is a massive target for cheaters:
The threat model for anti-cheat varies per game based on the number of active players and ability to gain profit by selling cheats or gain prominence by cheating. Hence anti-cheat which suffices for one game may not for another game with 10, 100, or 1000 times more players.
One user followed up by suggesting it was just a case of Sweeney not wanting Fortnite on a "rival's platform", to which Sweeney gave this answer:
Epic would be happy to put Fortnite on Steam. We wouldn't be happy to give Steam 20-30% of its revenue for the privilege. Supporting Steam Deck hardware is a separate issue, but the market for non-Steam-hosted games on limited availability Steam Deck hardware is how big exactly?
With that in mind, you're going to need Windows or to stream it via GeForce NOW on the Steam Deck. At least for games without such anti-cheat, you should be able to use the Heroic Games Launcher on the Steam Deck.
It does mean there's space open for another game to take its place on the Steam Deck officially.
Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
Quoting: Purple Library GuyI have a question slightly to the side of the discussion so far:
OK, so Fortnite is a ridiculously popular game. But is it the kind of game people would be likely to play on a thing like a Steam Deck?
One of my kids plays it on a gaming pc (through GFN), while the other plays it on switch. Both are enjoying the game. So I'd say yes.
Quoting: Alm888Well, he is right.
WINE allows dll side-loading, so one can easily use a modded d3dx100500.dll with some functions (like drawing of walls or other effects) dummied-out and a modified custom Linux kernel would report everything is fine. User's access to kernel is a 0-level vulnerability in the "trust-chain". That is why WINE/Linux is not, and shall never be treated as "secure" platform. All hopes that a "client-side" anti-cheat will be a thing on WINE are just pipe dreams.
Linux and client-side anti-cheat systems are antithetical to each other as the very ideology of client-side anti-cheat measures is to strip user of any control of one's personal computer. From "trusted computing", through cryptographic measures down to "security through obscurity" concept. And Linux in particular and Open Source in general are against it all (see "libdvdcss").
How is this a WINE problem when WINE only does it because Windows does it as well? This is how windows gamers "patch" old games to support e.g wide screen.
The entire premise is wrong, the closed source nature of Windows gives it zero advantages over Linux here, there is nothing in the closed source nature that prevents the cheaters from bypassing EAC on Windows so his talk about Linux being a problem for being open is just hand waving. The truth is that EAC does not work on Windows (unless the cheater does not have access to google).
Quoting: ZlopezStrange how the insecure Windows, which is targeted by every malware out there is actually more secure for anti-cheat :-D
It's not strange, it's just a lie from Epic. Windows being close source is a red herring, nothing more. For every single hacker out there Windows is as open source as Linux, it's only in the sense that you want to create a patch legally and submit it upstream that Windows becomes closed source.
That's a bit odd. I can agree it may not be worth the effort, but I disagree with that it can not be done.
Though, it certainly is harder on Linux than on Windows by the nature of diversity, I'll grant him that.
slaapliedje Feb 8, 2022
Quoting: GuestI wonder if the Steam Deck is going to be a great success if Mr. Sweeny would change his mind. Just give it some time Linux is the future of gaming, we are seeing the change, keep in mind android (while heavy modified) is still Linux.In all honesty... it seems to me that there is a potential of MS getting a sniff of some companies considering releasing ports to Linux (and even macs) and decide to pay to make them Windows Exclusive. It literally happens everywhere for consoles and has since their inception. Why not in the PC realm?
Just question yourself this:
Why can't tripple A studio's make things work on Linux with a 100+ employers studio's, while an single indie developer can make there game enjoyable and perfectly work with either Proton or even Native.
Example: Splitgate the "equ8" AC isn't build for linux but they managed to get it working for Linux without issues. And there are more examples, instead of investing is "Epic Exclusives" they should put there money in evolution.
Quoting: GuestQuoting: AnzaQuoting: GuestI wonder if the Steam Deck is going to be a great success if Mr. Sweeny would change his mind. Just give it some time Linux is the future of gaming, we are seeing the change, keep in mind android (while heavy modified) is still Linux.
Just question yourself this:
Why can't tripple A studio's make things work on Linux with a 100+ employers studio's, while an single indie developer can make there game enjoyable and perfectly work with either Proton or even Native.
Example: Splitgate the "equ8" AC isn't build for linux but they managed to get it working for Linux without issues. And there are more examples, instead of investing is "Epic Exclusives" they should put there money in evolution.
I think this was discussed under some other article already. I guess short answer is: bureaucracy, custom engines and libraries. Which in turn means that if Linux doesn't make enough money, it won't happen unless somebody high up wants to have a Linux port. When experienced developers are allowed to spend time doing things like porting engine to have Vulkan renderer, things will happen. For example that's what happened when Google was distributing some Stadia money. Stadia just happens to be closed system, so there's no need to worry about multiple Linux distributions and support costs. Which in turn means that native Linux port might never leave Stadia. Even there doing some cost saving by just during the bare necessity means that profits are higher.
Smaller studios have more to gain. Article on GamingOnLinux (and maybe on few other Linux sites) can generate enough sales that Linux numbers are inflated. Extra publicity could totally be worth it. Indie studios are also more idealistic, so they might do Linux port just because they can.
I can remember reading an article where a game developer said that Linux users are more likely to give helpful feedback and sometimes even fixes, so I don't get why Big Corps. aren't seeing this.
But I Personally believe that the Steam Deck is going to change Linux Gaming for the better in the long run, just look at how far we already are, new games are playable from launch 80% of the time. Maybe not perfect but playable none the less.
In big corporations support and developer are not the same person. Developer might never see the support request. As for big corporations at least have to be lot more careful with copyright. There's possibility that they have prepared for user submissions if it's mentioned the EULA. My impression is that fan fixes usually live their own separate life, though I have vague memory that there are some exceptions.
It's interesting to see sure how much impact Steam Deck actually has. Now it's bit hard to see if developer actually support Proton. Valve will patch things for sure, but there's going to be bit of delay after each update in the game.
As for the topic itself, I guess Epic backup plan could be that if things go south with Microsoft, they could just pick up everything that Valve has done and bootstrap their Linux store that way. Valve doesn't have the same luxury as if they drop Linux, that's going to be quite big blow to the market and their backup plan will not be as viable. Sure Wine won't go away, but it wouldn't stay as good as its now.
The cheats are sold for money so there are monetary incentives to break EAC which points back to my earlier post that Windows is open source if you are a hacker. Not only does the closed source of Windows help it in any way possible, we can also see that Epic is lying out their teeth, there is no need for cheaters to force Fortnite to work on the Steam Deck in order to cheat, they can cheat right now using Windows (and they also carry cheats for consoles).
EAC only keeps out the amateurs, and the amateurs wouldn't know where to begin to create Linux kernel drivers in the first place either so this is all moot.
Quoting: slaapliedjeQuoting: GuestI wonder if the Steam Deck is going to be a great success if Mr. Sweeny would change his mind. Just give it some time Linux is the future of gaming, we are seeing the change, keep in mind android (while heavy modified) is still Linux.In all honesty... it seems to me that there is a potential of MS getting a sniff of some companies considering releasing ports to Linux (and even macs) and decide to pay to make them Windows Exclusive. It literally happens everywhere for consoles and has since their inception. Why not in the PC realm?
Just question yourself this:
Why can't tripple A studio's make things work on Linux with a 100+ employers studio's, while an single indie developer can make there game enjoyable and perfectly work with either Proton or even Native.
Example: Splitgate the "equ8" AC isn't build for linux but they managed to get it working for Linux without issues. And there are more examples, instead of investing is "Epic Exclusives" they should put there money in evolution.
Microsoft has been buying big studios, so they do already control big chunk of the market. Wikipedia has some kind of list of acquired studios, though list is missing Activision: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_Game_Studios#Subsidiaries_and_divisions
Few of the listed ones have done Linux ports in the past. They totally can shut down Linux porting efforts if they want to.
Luckily they don't own the whole market. They would have to spend lot more and there are other big groups making big purchases.
Quoting: F.UltraSo did a quick google (since Fortnite is not a game that I have ever played, and since I don't use cheats) and the first response was to (link removed just in case) which have a long list of cheats for Fortnite, that works on Windows 10 and Windows 11.
The cheats are sold for money so there are monetary incentives to break EAC which points back to my earlier post that Windows is open source if you are a hacker. Not only does the closed source of Windows help it in any way possible, we can also see that Epic is lying out their teeth, there is no need for cheaters to force Fortnite to work on the Steam Deck in order to cheat, they can cheat right now using Windows (and they also carry cheats for consoles).
EAC only keeps out the amateurs, and the amateurs wouldn't know where to begin to create Linux kernel drivers in the first place either so this is all moot.
With bit of money it's possible to build that close to impossible to detect. Basically if you can feed the screen output to another computer where the hacks run, that another computer can send input back to computer where game runs via USB.
I would assume hardest part is to train the visual recognition model. I don't know where you can get that stuff if you don't want to build it from scratch. But apparently that stuff is out there.
PS: you should remove the direct link just in case and let the interested people just Google for it, direct link is bit too close to promoting hacks
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