SCS put the Heart of Russia DLC for Euro Truck Simulator 2 on hold for now

Classic virtue signaling.

Usually I would agree, but in this case doing "something" is almost required.
This is not just the usual "we stand for diversity! *implements gender toggle without any effect to get headlines written about how great allies they are*" identity politics garbage, but a problem that is actually real.

In the current situation, releasing anything Russia themed, even as innocuous as a truck sim DLC, will be putting a very big elephant in the room.
And elephants in the room are always better off addressed and dealt with.

If this particular course of action, stopping the DLC entirely, is the best course of action is a different debate.
I agree with the notion that they should've released the DLC and given the profits to some Ukraine-themed charity, at least assuming it was almost done anyway.

On the other hand, you have real people working on this.
If I currently had to work on a product that basically made me create a model of Russia in some form or another, I would not feel good about it, either, not in the slightest. This might have been a decision meant in favor of the devs themselves more than a PR one.
Russia is a do-not-touch topic right now, and will remain so for many years to come. Tragic in all regards, but it is what it is.

I understand why they decided not to release the DLC. But why not release it and spend all the money for the refugees or the ukraine itself? This will help more.

I understand why they decided not to release the DLC. But why not release it and spend all the money for the refugees or the ukraine itself? This will help more.

I wonder though...
From which country would probably be the most customers for the DLC?
What would many of them think about it?
So, while it sounds good, it might not work out.

Russia might not have any trucks left by the time their calamitous war on Ukraine is over.

Developers need to stick making games, i don't care for there political opinions.

It seems they don't care if you care.

Also people here fail to see that the first thing thats dying in a war is "The Truth" Both countries are equally corrupt so i don't pick sides i do feel for the citizens on both sides tho.

This is not about corruption. One country attacked its neighbour country, and started kill its people, and wants it to vanish.

This is the right decision. It's absolutely crazy what Russian government do right now, and not only government - around 70% citizens believe in propaganda, and honestly wish Ukrainians death. There is just no point to release this DLC until Russia citizens change their mind, and I don't expect it to happen anytime soon.

It's the right call. Unfortunately, in this case, there was no unpolitical decision available. It's a shame that they blew so much money on making a product they in all likelihood will never be able to sell before it is horribly outdated. The time it will take for Russia to be an accepted member of the international community again will be measured in decades, not years...

Not arguing at all about the fact that what is happening in the Ukraine is wrong, it is.

But I honestly feel that what the west is doing now towards the Russian people is so very very flawed. Going after the rich and influential people there, go for it. But cutting the normal Russian off from everything is only pushing them more into the corner we don't want them to be.

What will this accomplish really? Nothing it will just make a gamer go f*** this, stupid West/developer. He is not going onto the streets and demonstrate with the risk of a jail timer longer then what you get in some countries for a murder, no he will go like hmmm maybe all the news I see every day (the propaganda) has some truth.

I also have no correct solution for it all, but I do feel that cutting the normal Russian off from the world (no google/apple pay/xbox/sony ps,no more games to buy on steam, etc etc) is not the way.

Let the Flaming start :)

I 100% agree with you, the isolation that the West is creating towards the Russian population is absurd, they are pushing that people into total seclusion, giving Putin greater control over them and it will end up becoming a new North Korea. And not to mention the growing Russophobia, reading news that philharmonic orchestras have stopped playing works by Tchaikovsky or universities prohibiting classes about Dostoevsky's works.

It is that not even in the 80s in the middle of the cold war, a time that I lived in my childhood, I did not see so much anti-Russian sentiment. And to think that at that time all these artistic expressions built bridges with the people for greater integration, now, the West is in charge of collapsing them with the absurd hypothesis that the people will rise up and banish Putin, it is easier to think and do that behind of a keyboard, but in practice it is very different, and I say this from my position, I am Colombian and we have lived for more than 50 years in an internal war and with many repressive governments that did not shake their hands in murdering civilians, very recently About a year ago, the armed and police forces murdered more than 80 people, and absolutely nothing happened, no country condemned the government of my country for that and everything remained the same.

The people are not to blame for the decisions of their governments, and the problem is that people do not look back, they forget history, and humanity makes the same mistakes again.

The position of the developers is understandable, if they continue working on that DLC the world will come crashing down on them and they will end up like the bad guys, I remember in the game's steam forum, from the first day of the invasion, people questioning and asking them to stop the DLC development

If Ukrain didn't have American funded Biolabs then Russia wouldn't even be there ;)

That's strange, because Mr. Putin said that it would be about nazis, ah no, drugs, no, one moment, protecting Russians in East Ukraine, ah, is Ukraine historically a thing in the first place?!? So, what you'Re saying contradicts most (if not all) of what Putin said.

BTW, my country has labs too, and so probably does yours, so... good luck to you.

(Of course we both know that you found out world secrets by a bit of googling. Yeah, I've got nothing to say about that.)

I understand this is a tough subject for some, but let's keep cool heads and remember not to insult others. I will remove / not approve any comments that seek to cause arguments, or to complain about previous wars. All wars are terrible.

That's strange, because Mr. Putin said that it would be about nazis, ah no, drugs, no, one moment, protecting Russians in East Ukraine, ah, is Ukraine historically a thing in the first place?!? ....

Historically speaking Russia would have to join Ukraine and not the other way around. The "Rus" were originally the northeners (Swedish, Danes, Finns, Norwegians) who settled in and around Kiew. This is where the "Rus" were governed from.

Originally the region was inhabited by the Pechenegs, who were a turkish normadic tribe, and who knows who was there before those. So the Turks could throw in their claim to the country too if we are at historical claims...


Last edited by STiAT on 31 May 2022 at 5:42 pm UTC

...is Ukraine historically a thing in the first place?!?

I feel slightly uncomfortable to be quoted this way. I have just been reiterating what Putin was saying.

Europeans continue to hurt themselves in hopes of hurting Russia.

So did the UK and France when they declared war on Nazi Germany. Doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do. For the exact same reasons. It's the nature of war that whatever you're doing, it's also hurting yourself. In the case of the sanctions, sure they will hurt the West, too. As long as it hurts Russia more (and it does), it's still a strategic win.

I agree with everything you say here except maybe the "and it does". From a brute strategic point of view, the US + entourage may have shot itself in the foot with this. Thing is, the US (+NATO) is in a cold war with Russia + China (again), has been for the last ten years or so, and one big question is how the rest of the world reacts to what happens. For some time, the US has slowly been using financial weapons against its opponents, and they've worked well up to now, but they've been causing increasing distrust in the US-led financial system, and doing it to a major country like Russia may turn out to have been going too far.

The test case was Cuba. And that didn't work as well as the US would like, but it has certainly hurt Cuba a lot over the decades. And it cost the US very little, either economically or politically, because Cuba is a small country with no economic weight, for whom nobody is going to stick their neck out very far. But still, every year in the UN, there's a vote condemning the US sanctions on Cuba, and nearly the whole world votes at it to condemn the US. It doesn't make any difference, but it's a signal. Then they started sanctioning Iran, and that caused a bit more muttering, and it caused still more when the US totally broke a treaty so they could keep sanctioning Iran. Then there was arguably Zimbabwe, which worked pretty well and nobody cared because nobody liked Zimbabwe much. Then they started sanctioning Venezuela, and calling it a dictatorship so they could get away with it. That caused yet more muttering, because everyone outside the immediate orbit of the US knows perfectly well that Venezuela is a democracy at least as democratic as anyone else in the region, and the only thing unusual about Venezuela was its independent foreign policy and its economic policies which were too social democratic to allow non-whites to have. So it seemed a tad unfair. But still, relatively small country, not at the heart of stuff going on, countries could kind of ignore it. And it sure worked, Venezuela's economy went blooey.

The thing is though, all these "sanctions" involve, aside from barriers to participation in the international economy, also outright theft of huge amounts of these countries' money and possessions. And the bedrock of the international financial system is the faith that that isn't going to happen, that you can engage in trade and countries won't just steal your stuff. So if I'm (any given country), I will have been getting vaguely uneasy--what's to stop the USA making up some excuse and just stealing all my country's money that is in their orbit? And now they did it to Russia, a major country with international significance, and splashed the fact all over the world news for weeks. This action did not generally play quite the same in the third world as it did in countries like mine which are firmly "in the club". I think there is going to be a significant increase in countries being reluctant to hold their money in US dollars and US banks.

Meanwhile, the ruble is riding high, the Russian economy is not obviously going under, and their oil and gas are still getting sold one way or another but at higher prices. In the medium term Russia will just replace Western trade with Eastern trade or with import substitution, the latter of which will help Russia's economy diversify. The Russians and Chinese are deploying ways of moving money around internationally that bypass the US-controlled SWIFT system, which will give other countries an option to future-proof themselves against the possibility of sanctions on them. And if Russia's economy continues to not die, they will represent an example of it being possible to buck the US-led system without the US being able to kill your economy, making other countries less fearful of the threat of sanctions. The overall effect will be that a major "stick" the US had for disciplining countries that got out of line, will end up a much smaller and less threatening stick.

So no, in terms of strategy I'm not sure the sanctions are effective. They may actually end up representing a major blow to US world financial hegemony. That said, I'm not sure they had a move available that would have worked. Really, I think at this stage of history if the US could get itself some really visionary strategists in charge, they'd be working towards a "soft landing" for the US empire, rather than strategizing to keep hanging onto everything till the bitter end, 'cause that ain't gonna work and the end will be bitter. But, well, history suggests that doesn't happen much.

If Ukrain didn't have American funded Biolabs then Russia wouldn't even be there ;)

Don't be silly. Those labs may or may not be real, who knows--but they don't matter either way except as a talking point. Nobody's staging invasions just because someone's quietly breeding a few terror bioweapons, because biological warfare isn't an important thing in real life. Nobody uses it much, and when they do it's mainly to attack crops and livestock and deniably hurt someone's economy, not to create plagues in humans, because the boomerang effects of that are so bloody obvious.

Russia is there because they fear NATO encircling and strangling them. They fear NATO encircling and strangling them because that is something NATO seems to be doing and it has been often stated as a goal by US and NATO leaders. Is that a good enough reason for an invasion? Ehhh, probably not. Very few reasons are good enough for an invasion. But that's the reason; anyone who thinks it's some sort of random madness or hatred of Ukrainians or some such nonsense, or even sentimental/nationalist attachment to ethnic Russians in Ukraine, is dreaming. Putin's diplomacy for the last quite a few years has nearly all been directed to the basic goal of having NATO stop doing that, both by trying to make some sort of international security deal, and by just saying over and over "These things are red lines; we will do something about it if you keep pushing" and developing weapons to underline the idea that they have the power to do something about those red lines. The US/NATO couldn't really respond positively to any of that, because if you let one country get away with having its own security interests and generally considering itself independent, lots other countries will start to get ideas, and pretty soon you're not in charge any more. Empires gotta emp. Now it turns out Russia were willing to go as far as war, which sucks.

...is Ukraine historically a thing in the first place?!?

I feel slightly uncomfortable to be quoted this way. I have just been reiterating what Putin was saying.

Can understand that, a bit out of context to be sure. Will remedy that, though, my comment was to that context and not to the whole reply.

Classic virtue signaling.

Usually I would agree, but in this case doing "something" is almost required.
This is not just the usual "we stand for diversity! *implements gender toggle without any effect to get headlines written about how great allies they are*" identity politics garbage, but a problem that is actually real.

In the current situation, releasing anything Russia themed, even as innocuous as a truck sim DLC, will be putting a very big elephant in the room.
And elephants in the room are always better off addressed and dealt with.

If this particular course of action, stopping the DLC entirely, is the best course of action is a different debate.
I agree with the notion that they should've released the DLC and given the profits to some Ukraine-themed charity, at least assuming it was almost done anyway.

On the other hand, you have real people working on this.
If I currently had to work on a product that basically made me create a model of Russia in some form or another, I would not feel good about it, either, not in the slightest. This might have been a decision meant in favor of the devs themselves more than a PR one.
Russia is a do-not-touch topic right now, and will remain so for many years to come. Tragic in all regards, but it is what it is.

I would respect the developer a lot more if they went ahead and released the DLC and told people who misconstrued it as support for the invasion to get a grip.

Europeans continue to hurt themselves in hopes of hurting Russia.

So did the UK and France when they declared war on Nazi Germany. Doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do. For the exact same reasons. It's the nature of war that whatever you're doing, it's also hurting yourself. In the case of the sanctions, sure they will hurt the West, too. As long as it hurts Russia more (and it does), it's still a strategic win.

I agree with everything you say here except maybe the "and it does". From a brute strategic point of view, the US + entourage may have shot itself in the foot with this.

If you refer to the oil and coal embargo, I am inclined to agree with you. Prices for these commodities are sky-high right now, so even if we're buying less, Russia is still overall making more money, and there are still enough countries out there willing to buy from them. This has to be viewed as a long-term thing, rather than anything. Since we're apparently unwilling to ship enough heavy weapons to turn the tide of this war solidly in favor of Ukraine, this might go on for years to come, and eventually the sanctions -will- work.
What really hurt them and will continue doing so was the sanctions against their ruling elite. These people just love bragging with their wealth, but almost all go-to places for showing off wealth are now off-limits to them (Istanbul just isn't Zurich or Monaco) and some lost a few of their expensive toys on top of that. There seems to be considerable unrest among the elites that used to back Putin, and that's a good start.
As for the Ruble, yes, it's stable for now, among things because whoever's running Russia's central bank is doing a fairly great job at stabilizing it. But again, it's not sustainable. You can safely expect the Ruble to plummet, the question is just when. That's the general problem with sanctions - they absolutely work, but with a significant delay. Russia is a major country on a map, but its economy is actually quite small. Its GNP is about as large as Spain's, and (to quote Obama) they don't make anything except oil and weapons anyone would want to buy. They bought almost everything from us and they no longer can. China can not compensate all of that. I am pretty sure China is enjoying us and Russia bashing heads, but they're still happy to do business with us and they really don't want to lose the business anytime soon. In the end, Russia will feel the sanctions, and I'd guess they already do.

As for the future, yes, what you outlined is very likely going to happen. The world is going to split in two or more blocks once more. A US-led democratic and a China-led autocratic block, with Russia becoming China's main bootlicker as a bigger version of North Korea. And very little interaction and trade between these blocks. Been there, done that, got the "I have been born in the Cold War and seen it all" T-shirt. History repeats itself, again and again. It's a shame, but humanity will apparently never learn. I lost the last rest of faith in it a long while ago, so what can I say?

Russia is there because they fear NATO encircling and strangling them. They fear NATO encircling and strangling them because that is something NATO seems to be doing and it has been often stated as a goal by US and NATO leaders.

Load a world map into your paint application of choice. Paint all NATO nations (including Finland and Sweden if you want) blue and Russia red. And then tell me what part of this looks like "encirclement"... *rolls eyes*

and honestly wish Ukrainians death

You have a false idea about the Russian people and who the war is being waged against.

and honestly wish Ukrainians death

You have a false idea about the Russian people and who the war is being waged against.

Your vague allusion to some non-specific hidden knowledge do not change the fact that as long as civilians are dying, any and all reasons and excuses ring hollow.

So we aren't realising DLCs that take place in the US, Brazil, most of Europe, China, Mongolia, Japan and a bunch of Countries in Africa. No? Then why are people doing this to Russia specifically? Are they the only country that invaded another? They aren't even the first ones in this decade. People just love propaganda too much to make rational decisions.

Russia is there because they fear NATO encircling and strangling them. They fear NATO encircling and strangling them because that is something NATO seems to be doing and it has been often stated as a goal by US and NATO leaders.

Load a world map into your paint application of choice. Paint all NATO nations (including Finland and Sweden if you want) blue and Russia red. And then tell me what part of this looks like "encirclement"... *rolls eyes*

Mmm . . . Paint all NATO nations today blue, and paint all NATO nations in 1991 blue, and tell me what the contrast looks like. And it's not like there haven't been attempts to arrange political changes in countries further East.

So, sure, this strategy may be impractical, and it hasn't succeeded . . . yet. But whatever the actual practicalities, something along those lines is what United States policymakers have been consistently, and often loudly and proudly, talking about for quite a few years. Maybe their reach exceeds their grasp, but is that a gamble a country would be wise to make when the world's superpower is drawing a target on them?

As a side note, consider natural gas. Russia has few pipelines through which to sell natural gas. The main one westward runs through Ukraine. So, the United States staged a coup in Ukraine, then mounted a sustained and increasingly massive pressure campaign to block the building and use of a new pipeline (Nordstream 2) that didn't run through any NATO countries, specifically and explicitly on the basis that the sale of Russian gas should be blocked because it's Russian. What was Russia supposed to think about this? That it's normal commerce? Of course it's an attempt at economic strangulation.