Microsoft experiments with a handheld Windows 11 mode for Steam Deck

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: LEANIJAIt should be noted that this is not actually in development at Microsoft. This was a project at a hackathon by AndrewMT at MS in Sept. 2022 that didnt go anywhere.

"I started this hackathon project and it didn’t go much of anywhere, but this article uses wording to make it seem like it’s something under development. Problem is - We just didn’t have the right engineers to do a lot of what we wanted to do in the short hackathon project timeframe. Maybe this odd article can help me pitch this to Microsoft again. Phil Spencer was very nice and tried to drive me to some people that could help, but everyone was tied-up at the time."

more & source:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SteamDeck/comments/12kjgkh/comment/jg3lsvm/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

Well, so much for that, then.

I was actually thinking to myself that the main reason not to be too worried about this is that I have doubts about Microsoft's ability to actually do it--not so much lack of technical capacity, although yeah, maybe, as lack of institutional ability to really deliver it. And here we are . . . seems they're not really doing it, because they're institutionally not able to pick up the ball and run with it.

Well the problem with MS is that even when doing it half assed they still are large enough to make changes in the industry, I mean look just at how they managed to completely kill off netbooks and things like the OLPC project just by basically showing up. Basically the only resistance they have faced so far is Android/iPhone and the iPod.

If they just slap a working deck-like UI on top of Windows then some HW manufacturer sure will make the Steam Deck sales look like low volume, bloat can always be countered with beefier hardware and unfortunately marketing and big brand name will always surpass features, capabilities and technological supremacy.

Quoting: 04ELYNo way Valve and Linux scared Microsoft to put effort, we're going good!

of course we do.
we kicked their butt in the server, super computer and mobile devices.
consoles are able to reach numbers as big as 150 millions devices and we are doing relatively good , especially if we use as reference the first xbox.

if other companies like google (chromebooks), amazon (luna) start beting on linux, then we will have big capital investing on us, so even if valve isnt the one to bring linux to the masses, if they show its possible others may follow and someone finally break windows monopoly.

valve is proving that is possible WITHOUT exclusives to break into that space, nowadays most of the games people want do work and people seems to be willing to compromise on the others or wait for then to work instead of dualboot/changing to windows on their deck.
not to mention the network effect that is starting to get shappe on everything related, all techs related to gaming like wine,dxvk, drivers, anti cheat, lutris are evolving on our ecosystem faster than ever, if microsoft dont manage to desacelerate it, they might get into serious trouble.

imagine an chromebook with full integration with your phone (transfer calls etc), full support for android apps and the same compatibility of windows games/softwares that steamOS have + a few exclusive apps from google.
imagine luna using linux as their main system instead of windows, and maybe even geforce now with nvidia having an reason to put linux as their first class citizen at least on servers.
(amazon already is looking at techs like wine)

on linux already have more games than any console ever had (counting only verified+playble) more than mac (if we include native+verified+playable), the only pc platform with more games is windows, it also still get more games per day than we do, but that can change.
as for mobile, its another niche but some gamers play both including android emulation for pc and if we count mobile games, then the number skyrockt for an ridiculous high number!
even non steam games are becoming easier than ever to install, im starting to get hope again!

Quoting: JustinWoodI don't get why folks are so opposed to this. While I appreciate wanting support to go towards Linux/Proton, some stuff just isn't going to make the transition (Looking at you Genshin Impact and other titles that require anti-cheat and such), so having a Windows UI that doesn't require I carry a 65% keyboard and try to pinpoint my mouse with the deck trackpad is a benefit in my eyes. Granted it's Windows 11 but still.

a lot of people say competition is healthy, but in my opinion, its only health when both companies can compete and indeed do.
when an company control 90% of an market like microsoft, there is no real competition.
people dont use windows because they want, they use because they HAVE TO , they dont have other choice.
the option we had was something like: "sure you can chose linux and have nothing to play, no support for your hardware and the programs you need to work to pay your bills wont work" is that really an option?

we need some competition for windows, and we are finally geting it, linux is finally geting competitive, turning into an option for the masses.

steamOS need competition to improve? sure, but what if such competition "kills it"? what we dont want to see is all that progress made start to reverse, for example, new games that launch not running anymore, online games baning us again and no longer supporting steamOS (in the cases that do)...

Quoting: LoftyThe title of the article should have been: "1000's of free Viruses are now available on Steamdeck"

Quoting: GuestWell it's not great news as it increases the risk of devs not putting any effort in proton compat, but as long as it's still closed source bloated crap that does everything possible unrelated to gaming it's not a direct competition to gamescope running on a Linux kernel.

the issue is that the competition is not "runing an game on windows vs runing an game on linux" if that were the case, microsoft would be dead of arrival.

the competition we currently face is:
the entire industry being an windows stack.
the competition is:
having games runing nativelly on windows with driver makers prioritizing the performance on windows.
vs
having an translation layer that translate their crap stuff into good code.
translate dx calls into vulkan calls.
fortunatelly the drivers on the deck prioritize linux and even then some games run faster on windows.

Quoting: GuestPersonally I have the feeling windows will fall on its face sooner or later anyway due to the amount of crap it contains and the obtuse ways it has to everything, as a sysadmin it's just a nightmare to manage. Logs mean nothing (when they exist at all), bugs are impossible to troubleshoot, very little makes sense.

if it happens overnight then they wont have time to react, but i doubt it will be overnight.
if they have time, maybe the future versions of windows would be just another linux distro runing and superset of wine (just like proton) but much better since they have access to windows code, with some parts of it only working on microsoft distro, so they will still have exclusive content.

but even if that happens it will be an victory for us... it will suck like android wich have an different ecosystem than the rest of linux, but still , it will show their monopoly have weakness and they were forced to change their system much like edge nowadays is just an chromium in disguise.

the issue will be that their reputaiton will be intact, everyone will use linux without realizing and thinking linux sucks...

Quoting: GuestTo actually survive it will need to be completely rehauled from the base and finally break backwards compatibility with ancient NT tech. And then, likely no old game will run anymore while they will forever via proton.

not even proton can guarantee that, but at least valve care since they make money from game sales including old stuff.

Quoting: GuestI think it's part of the reason valve went with Linux, I also think that in the not-so-distant future rigs with modern amd GPUs/Apus will likely have on par fps with windows, if not better with all the Mesa and vulkan progress made and the OS not getting in the way.

for sure, microsoft can break windows backward compatibility at any moment they want.
if they wanted they could do something like:
purchase games on our store and have an guarantee they will work forever, or try your luck with steam and the rest, and maybe something you want to play dont work anymore.

some companies may even delist their old games from steam since they dont want to sell an game that dont work anymore, nor have to sink the cost of supporting something that almost no one is purchasing nowadays but the ones who do generate an big cost of support.

by building their own system valve can guarantee they are in control of the runtime tech beneath their store.


Last edited by elmapul on 14 April 2023 at 12:12 pm UTC

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: 04ELYNo way Valve and Linux scared Microsoft to put effort, we're going good!

of course we do.
we kicked their butt in the server, super computer and mobile devices.
consoles are able to reach numbers as big as 150 millions devices and we are doing relatively good , especially if we use as reference the first xbox.

if other companies like google (chromebooks), amazon (luna) start beting on linux, then we will have big capital investing on us, so even if valve isnt the one to bring linux to the masses, if they show its possible others may follow and someone finally break windows monopoly.

valve is proving that is possible WITHOUT exclusives to break into that space, nowadays most of the games people want do work and people seems to be willing to compromise on the others or wait for then to work instead of dualboot/changing to windows on their deck.
not to mention the network effect that is starting to get shappe on everything related, all techs related to gaming like wine,dxvk, drivers, anti cheat, lutris are evolving on our ecosystem faster than ever, if microsoft dont manage to desacelerate it, they might get into serious trouble.

imagine an chromebook with full integration with your phone (transfer calls etc), full support for android apps and the same compatibility of windows games/softwares that steamOS have + a few exclusive apps from google.
imagine luna using linux as their main system instead of windows, and maybe even geforce now with nvidia having an reason to put linux as their first class citizen at least on servers.
(amazon already is looking at techs like wine)

on linux already have more games than any console ever had (counting only verified+playble) more than mac (if we include native+verified+playable), the only pc platform with more games is windows, it also still get more games per day than we do, but that can change.
as for mobile, its another niche but some gamers play both including android emulation for pc and if we count mobile games, then the number skyrockt for an ridiculous high number!
even non steam games are becoming easier than ever to install, im starting to get hope again!

Well to be fair they where never big in either servers or supercomputers. So it was not so much us kicking them out as we simply kept them out so to speak. Mobile devices was a whole other story though. AFAIK the Steam Deck have sold about 1M units which is nothing compared with the amount of Xbox series X that MS have sold so I don't think that they actually see it as any form of competition, at least not yet.

And then it also looks like this whole thing was just something that a single MS developer tried to sell in house and failed to do so.

Quoting: CatKillerIt's not the first time. As alluded to in the article, Microsoft had allowed DirectX to languish until Valve plugged their own game through their own DirectX to OpenGL wrapper on Linux and had it run faster than DirectX on Windows. Then suddenly DirectX was super important to Microsoft again.

worse than that.
consoles are an platform with tons of Non Disclosure Agreements, so we dont know what happens there.

now think with me:
why would microsoft improve directX for windows, if they already have an monopoly on OS for desktops, and dont make money directly from games being sold for windows?
why would microsoft improve DirectX for Xbox, when they DO make money on each game sold for it?

i think DX12 already existed in someform on xbox, we just didnt knew/heard about that, from microsoft point of view PC was an platform where they make money seling operating systems but couldnt make selling games, so if playing the latest AAA games with an decent performance on xbox was cheaper than playing then on PC, many gamers would chose an Xbox and they would make more money.
sure, maybe some people would prefer an playstation or switch, but those people wouldnt stop using windows anyway.

then, valve anounced SteamOS and sundely microsoft had an reason to care about DX for windows, and announced DX12 for it (wich might already exist but this info not being public avaliable)

Quoting: CatKillerMicrosoft releasing their own (Xbox-branded) handheld hardware would be the threat; they've got stacks of spare money, a whole bunch of games studios, and an established store that they're trying to juice. That's the way that a competitor could make the same pricing and platform play as Valve have done, and Microsoft doing it would be to try to sink Valve's lifeboat.

the question is:
it will run xbox and it subset of games? or it will run windows and all it games?
if it runs windows, valve still would make money since steam is king there, not to mention they would incentive their own audience to use other stores by doing that.

on the other hand if they try to lock it to xbox games, then steamOS will still have more games (not that the ammount is more important than the names involved)

Quoting: elmapulwhy would microsoft improve directX for windows, if they already have an monopoly on OS for desktops, and dont make money directly from games being sold for windows?

DirectX is one of the moats protecting Windows' market share and Microsoft's control of the desktop. If game developers switch to OpenGL (or Vulkan now) that moat is breached.

Quotewhy would microsoft improve DirectX for Xbox, when they DO make money on each game sold for it?

DirectX is the whole point of the Xbox. It's literally a "DirectX box." Consoles doing general computer things as well as games would mean that consumers might do all their gaming and computing on something that doesn't come from Microsoft. This is unacceptable to Microsoft, so they poured loads of money into making a console that used Windows and DirectX so that game developers and consumers couldn't ignore them. And now that they have that additional moat, they can use that to get people to use the Windows Store - Game Pass.

Quoting: elmapulthe question is:
it will run xbox and it subset of games? or it will run windows and all it games?
if it runs windows, valve still would make money since steam is king there, not to mention they would incentive their own audience to use other stores by doing that.

on the other hand if they try to lock it to xbox games, then steamOS will still have more games (not that the ammount is more important than the names involved)

To protect their monopoly it would run almost all games from all generations of Xbox (Xbox games run in a VM already, so the hardware is abstracted), and all games from the Windows Store, and have access to Game Pass. Then they'd flood the market, since they've got more than enough money to absorb loses from hardware costs (exactly as they've done with Xbox). Control over game developers is re-established.

Embrace. Extend. Extinguish.

Now enter [[[ MICROSOFT AZURE DECK ]]] ... ( / kidding )

Kidding aside, FTA: they act like they're not seriously considering it -- but don't fall for their smoke, mirrors and lies. It's Microsoft -- the AntiHero -- nobody asked for -- to do things -- nobody wanted or needed because it feeds their Narcissism Complex to show up and fuck the party.

My popcorn and chips are ready to see how they "Solve" their little "Windows 11 devices MUST HAVE A WEBCAM AND TDP 2 or whatever the fuck it's called".

If anything we should be help Microsoft rip the ground out from underneath them by FULLY supporting their asinine nonsensical self punches to the face.

Windows Login should require you to scan your UN Global Passport and QR code at login.

It should also require retina and thumbprint verification.

Maybe even a stool sample containing bugs to confirm you are a "Good Boi".