Harebrained Schemes and Paradox Interactive to split

Quoting: Brokatt

Quoting: JarmerThis is so sad. I absolutely loved the Shadowrun games. I hope that somehow, some way, at some time, the veterans behind those games get together and do another in that universe.

Funny enough, it was Paradox's predatory scam dlc behavior that prevented me from purchasing Lamplighter. So maybe HBS can pick up and move to a better home!

Why? There's only a digital artbook and soundtrack available as DLC.
...

And a separate character in the nocturne dlc. A single one.


Last edited by emphy on 18 October 2023 at 6:47 am UTC

Quoting: eldarion

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: JarmerFunny enough, it was Paradox's predatory scam dlc behavior

What what? Predatory how? A scam??

Paradox are one of the few publisher's with a well established, regular, value add DLC regime. They support their games YEARS after release. Stellaris, for example, released over 7 years ago, but some of the DLC modules released are just £9 yet add swathes of content.

I wish other publishers would take note instead of trying monetise micro-transactions.

I'll take properly thought out DLC any day over cosmetic shite, Battle passes and "Seasons".

Depends on the game. Remember their flagship, GalCiv? They are constantly remaking the same game, but releasing the next iteration with a skeleton of the features of the previous game and then releasing DLC after DLC to catch up feature wise with the last game. Don't pretend that it's not to earn more money.

That sounds like you're talking about Stardock, not Paradox.

I wouldn't exactly praise Paradox dlc, though. The most recent one for EU4 was a rework of a bunch of stuff from previous dlcs (so you're paying at least twice here), and 30 minutes of music tied into preorder-exclusive dlc for this dlc (yes, dlc for dlc). I'd rather have them work on EU4 for a good long time rather than release EU4-8 in that same timespan, sure, but there are issues with their business model (hard not to notice when they've gone public as a company, for one thing).

Quoting: such

Quoting: eldarion

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: JarmerFunny enough, it was Paradox's predatory scam dlc behavior

What what? Predatory how? A scam??

Paradox are one of the few publisher's with a well established, regular, value add DLC regime. They support their games YEARS after release. Stellaris, for example, released over 7 years ago, but some of the DLC modules released are just £9 yet add swathes of content.

I wish other publishers would take note instead of trying monetise micro-transactions.

I'll take properly thought out DLC any day over cosmetic shite, Battle passes and "Seasons".

Depends on the game. Remember their flagship, GalCiv? They are constantly remaking the same game, but releasing the next iteration with a skeleton of the features of the previous game and then releasing DLC after DLC to catch up feature wise with the last game. Don't pretend that it's not to earn more money.

That sounds like you're talking about Stardock, not Paradox.

I wouldn't exactly praise Paradox dlc, though. The most recent one for EU4 was a rework of a bunch of stuff from previous dlcs (so you're paying at least twice here), and 30 minutes of music tied into preorder-exclusive dlc for this dlc (yes, dlc for dlc). I'd rather have them work on EU4 for a good long time rather than release EU4-8 in that same timespan, sure, but there are issues with their business model (hard not to notice when they've gone public as a company, for one thing).

You are right. My mistake. I thought Paradox was still publishing Stardock's GalCiv, like they did in the past. Apparently no? Anyway, it's all the same. Paradox also releases cash grab DLCs.

Here's a link to the steam page since I didn't see one on this page.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of this one. I may enjoy it, but I have so many more games to play first, including XCOM. Plus, the asking price of 50€ seems a bit steep.

Just when I discovered the Shadowrun games I'm in the middle of Dragonfall on my Deck and with Hong-Kong already installed, It's funny how sometimes great games pass before your eyes without noticing until someone brings it up in a conversation and recommend it to you. I hope they do more RPGs because they do it great.

Harebrained Schemes, I wish you the best.

Quoting: anewsonCompare CK2 or Stellaris with games that have seen constant content updates without paid DLC (Project Zomboid, Valheim, Caves of Qud, NMS, ...), constant content updates with much more gamer-friendly DLC releases (eg, Deep Rock Galactic, Don't Starve, ...), or, dare I say it, even F2P games like Apex or PoE which see constant content updates without locking gameplay mechanics behind paywalls, and make their money off of cosmetics

So you prefer microtransactions then. That's fine, I don't. I prefer, as I said earlier, well thought out DLC expansions.

There are some exceptions, such as Hello Games NMS, who just do free content, somehow. It's been suggested that they only do all those free updates because of the shit-show of a launch they had, but I don't believe that, at least not any more. It's been years and they're still releasing content for free, riding on the sales of the base game. Impressive.

So there are exceptions, definitely. But normally after release if you want continuity you have to accept either DLC, or microtransactions. Paradox do DLC, which is increasingly rare these days. Deep Rock Galactic, Apex, PoE, Diablo, and most other do mtx. They're both viable, but I definitely have my preferences.

Calling Paradox a cash-grab publisher for doing DLC? Insultingly petty and wholly disingenuous.


Last edited by scaine on 18 October 2023 at 3:34 pm UTC

Quoting: anewsonI also find their DLC system a turnoff. In CK2, for example, you just don't feel you're playing the full game unless you buy a bunch of DLC. Charging 5$/month or a 280$ for access to the full version of your game is a bit rich for a single-player game.

Christ dude - CK2 is over a decade old. It's AMAZING that you can still pick and chose how to play the game today. It's ridiculous to think you need to pay £110+ to buy ALL the dlc for this now-free game. Yes, it would be nice if they wrapped a couple of these older items into the base game. Yes, it would be nice if Steam made DLC clearer when there's overlap (many of the "expansion" DLC for CK2 are now in bundles called "collections", but with such an old game and so many expansions, good luck figuring it all out).

But it must still be selling, I suppose, despite the success of CK3.

Honestly, some of the replies in this thread are really odd. Publisher and Developers need to make money. These comments give me the impression that they resent them for doing so! We shouldn't resent people making a living by giving us entertainment, except in those cases of predatory practices designed to take advantage of vulnerable or susceptible people - e.g. lootboxes, or in Blizzard's case, auction-places for "desirable" high-end gear.

Goddam, I'm so glad I'm not in this industry.

Quoting: scaineCalling Paradox a cash-grab publisher for doing DLC? Insultingly petty and wholly disingenuous.

I don't entirely agree with you here. When I see something like Stellaris having a DLC list that totals 7 times the price of the game, I just don't believe that what they added is worth that much. It just seems that they abuse the DLC method to try and sell content for an inflated price. Which may not be the traditional cash-grab, but it's still related.

Quoting: scaineYes, it would be nice if Steam made DLC clearer when there's overlap (many of the "expansion" DLC for CK2 are now in bundles called "collections", but with such an old game and so many expansions, good luck figuring it all out).

And this creates a problem. If figuring it out is made so difficult, it's just easier to let it go. When I see DLC lists with hundreds of euros of stuff, I just move on to something that doesn't require a degree to figure out.

Quoting: Brokatt

Quoting: JarmerThis is so sad. I absolutely loved the Shadowrun games. I hope that somehow, some way, at some time, the veterans behind those games get together and do another in that universe.

Funny enough, it was Paradox's predatory scam dlc behavior that prevented me from purchasing Lamplighter. So maybe HBS can pick up and move to a better home!

Why? There's only a digital artbook and soundtrack available as DLC. Not very scammy IMHO.

Sorry, but nope: day 1 dlc included a $8 in-game character. Which of course means it was developed as part of the game pre-release and then they chopped it out and tried charging extra for it on day 1. That's predatory, and a blatant scam.

I was about to hit that purchase button on the game, but then when I saw that, I instantly canceled it. If you check the steam forums, there's thread after thread about this exact topic. They lost a lot of customers over that decision.

I don't mind at all having deluxe editions with artbooks and soundtracks, in fact I encourage it, gets a little extra money for the devs for cool stuff. But none of that impacts the game itself whatsoever.

Quoting: EhvisI don't entirely agree with you here. When I see something like Stellaris having a DLC list that totals 7 times the price of the game, I just don't believe that what they added is worth that much. It just seems that they abuse the DLC method to try and sell content for an inflated price. Which may not be the traditional cash-grab, but it's still related.

They price the base game, which is the entry point, relatively low so that:
1) upfront cost to get started isn't too high, you don't need to put a lot of money before you even know if you'll like it.
2) most of the cost is optional, only the most hardcore completionists will pay the full cost, most people will pay a lot less. I am a super fan of the game but even so I don't have all the stuff.
3) more casual players can get great cost-benefit with the base game (which improves constantly with free updates), while people that really love the game can pay for content that for them is worth a lot because they put hundreds or thousands of hours into the game.

As for "inflated price", for any game DLC has a higher margin than the base game - meaning the same amount of "content" or "work" sells for a higher price. It is unavoidable, because by definition it will only sell a fraction of the copies of the base game, and naturally it won't re-make all the basics (that would be dumb, more work but not more value). The point is that for many people, improving the game they like is better than buying a new game they like less.

I think that big strategy games are a very natural fit for additional content, because you play many matches from start to end - so you don't have to replay the entire story or redo some puzzles, but it can still work together with stuff from the old game instead of being a separate story or something. Plus they benefit from complexity, are mostly singleplayer so no pay to win issues, they have a long learning curve and good replayability so you stick with the same game for quite a while...

Paradox keep adding DLC because they keep working on the game for years, and we can see it as it happens. It is not like they are holding content back (day-0 DLC) or making a game without enough content - their games are huge and they keep even reworking the basics. Not that their DLC is always good, much less worth its price... but they are upfront and honest about what they are doing, and it does not usually detract from the (cheap and excellent) base game. I'll take Paradox' DLC over microtransactions that make the game worse to try and manipulate me into paying.