Nightdive Studios confirm Linux and macOS ports of System Shock are cancelled

Most macOS users are using CrossOver or Whisky, I gather.

I suppose if I were a MacOS user I, too, might be driven to Whisky.

I have to use a Mac for work, and it mostly drives me to rum and homebrew mead..

the issue is that every investiment is a risk

And that would be fine if Kickstarter was open and honest about your "investment" garnering zero reward. But as I've already pointed out, they don't. You pledge at a level, you get a reward, according to their platform. Stretch goals are promised, frequently broken.

And you know what? If an ACTUAL startup took money from an investor based on promises they had no intention of keeping - that's actually illegal, and is called "fraud". So it doesn't fly with me. Kickstarter want their cake, and to eat it.

Once I realised that, over ten years ago, they never got another penny from me.

the issue is that dont benefit anyone.
an linux version will earn about 4% of the income for the game, and they either will spend more than that, or have to quit supporting windows sooner to keep their promisse of treating every platform equally.

only platform owners care about an specific platform ecosystem, nintendo do with their consoles, microsoft with windows and xbox, and now valve with linux, the main difference is that valve isnt the only linux provider but they have nothing to lose with it growing even if its not their distro, they have everything to lose with microsoft gaining ground on the other hand.

I don't know whether this analysis is still very accurate, but Linux customers can represent significant revenue if you do it in the right way: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/The-state-of-Mac-and-Linux-gaming

Regardless, the point I was making was that having a stretch goal for "we'll make it work on Linux!" is not a selling point anymore. Back when all we could do was beg for a port, we'd be grateful if the developer did anything at all. Linux customers have higher standards now that most of these Kickstarter campaigns will fall short of. Proton has become so good and the bar is now so high that only a vanishingly small subset of developers have created a Linux version that beats Proton because it's hard. And they're almost all indie games, like Factorio. The fact is you get better support with Proton than most native games today, it will work better for longer, and you'll always receive updates at the same cadence as Windows customers.

The feature that killed OS/2 is the feature that set Linux gamers free.

What a world.

Most macOS users are using CrossOver or Whisky, I gather.

I suppose if I were a MacOS user I, too, might be driven to Whisky.

I have to use a Mac for work, and it mostly drives me to rum and homebrew mead..

It's not like being on Linux discounts the option of rum either.

the issue is that every investiment is a risk

And that would be fine if Kickstarter was open and honest about your "investment" garnering zero reward. But as I've already pointed out, they don't. You pledge at a level, you get a reward, according to their platform. Stretch goals are promised, frequently broken.

And you know what? If an ACTUAL startup took money from an investor based on promises they had no intention of keeping - that's actually illegal, and is called "fraud". So it doesn't fly with me. Kickstarter want their cake, and to eat it.

Once I realised that, over ten years ago, they never got another penny from me.

making an game is hard enough, supporting other platforms is a bit harder, at least they delivered some product, but yeah its a shame they didnt suport us, but in the cases where an game isnt finished at least they should relase all the code and assets.

if nothing else, at least this proves they made something


Last edited by elmapul on 24 May 2024 at 12:49 am UTC

the issue is that dont benefit anyone.
an linux version will earn about 4% of the income for the game, and they either will spend more than that, or have to quit supporting windows sooner to keep their promisse of treating every platform equally.

only platform owners care about an specific platform ecosystem, nintendo do with their consoles, microsoft with windows and xbox, and now valve with linux, the main difference is that valve isnt the only linux provider but they have nothing to lose with it growing even if its not their distro, they have everything to lose with microsoft gaining ground on the other hand.

I don't know whether this analysis is still very accurate, but Linux customers can represent significant revenue if you do it in the right way: http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/05/The-state-of-Mac-and-Linux-gaming

Regardless, the point I was making was that having a stretch goal for "we'll make it work on Linux!" is not a selling point anymore. Back when all we could do was beg for a port, we'd be grateful if the developer did anything at all. Linux customers have higher standards now that most of these Kickstarter campaigns will fall short of. Proton has become so good and the bar is now so high that only a vanishingly small subset of developers have created a Linux version that beats Proton because it's hard. And they're almost all indie games, like Factorio. The fact is you get better support with Proton than most native games today, it will work better for longer, and you'll always receive updates at the same cadence as Windows customers.

The feature that killed OS/2 is the feature that set Linux gamers free.

What a world.

i remember seeing that linux represented 20% of the first humble bundles, sure we had an small marketshare , but we didnt had any games back then, we were hungry for games, so we were willing to accept anything, high demand for low supply made us an good target.

nowadays this is not a problem anymore.

I'd rather play it through Proton, anyway. lol. Ports are almost always an inferior experience compared to just playing through Proton.


Last edited by TromboneSteve on 24 May 2024 at 1:35 pm UTC

making an game is hard enough, supporting other platforms is a bit harder

That's true, but that's why it's a stretch goal, where they promised to do it if they got extra money. And they got to define how much extra money it would require before they were willing to support other platforms. They could have not promised it, they could have made it a bigger stretch goal--the whole thing was totally their decision. Then they went back on their word.
Mind you, Kickstarter as a whole really pushes away from the philosophy of "underpromise, overdeliver".


Last edited by Purple Library Guy on 24 May 2024 at 4:49 pm UTC

This just leaves a stain on them as a developer that uses Kickstarter, if they plan to Kickstart more games in the future, you can be sure this will come up, and deservedly so. I wouldn't give them any money.

making an game is hard enough, supporting other platforms is a bit harder

That's true, but that's why it's a stretch goal, where they promised to do it if they got extra money. And they got to define how much extra money it would require before they were willing to support other platforms. They could have not promised it, they could have made it a bigger stretch goal--the whole thing was totally their decision. Then they went back on their word.
Mind you, Kickstarter as a whole really pushes away from the philosophy of "underpromise, overdeliver".

if they earned enough money to have a profit, but porting was way more expensive thean they antecipated, at least they should try to refund people who purchased the non existent linux port

A shame. Their System Shock remake is, in my opinion, really damn good. I had a lot of fun with it, as opposed to their "retro remasters" which are inferior to pretty much every free community driven source port they stand amongst as a paid product.. Suppose this reinforces their true position in the market and where their priorities are.


Last edited by ridge on 25 May 2024 at 7:19 am UTC

Well, it stinks that Nightdive backed out of their promise, but I had a lot of fun with the game last year using Proton. Looks like some updates have dropped, so I think I'll pick it up again.


Last edited by notinuse on 25 May 2024 at 12:49 pm UTC

I still maintain the worse offender of this was Tower 57. They have an AmigaOS4 port, but not a Linux one...

This is weird to me, since Atari bought Nightdive Studios, and they definitely are a bit more friendly to Linux than your average publisher, though it does weird me out a little that they literally have native versions of games like Yars Recharged (on the Atari VCS) but do not have a native linux build on Steam.


Last edited by slaapliedje on 27 May 2024 at 6:35 pm UTC

After messaging Nightdive support multiple times and pushing for a clear answer I finally got this back today:

> Greetings from Nightdive Studios!

> Thank you for contacting us about your order. We understand that circumstances may change, and we apologize for any inconvenience this may cause.

> We regret to inform you that we can not offer a refund at this time. This is because this specific item falls under our non-cancellable/non-refundable policy.

> We understand this may be disappointing news, and we apologize for any confusion.

> ...
> Customer Support Specialist


So...if you are like me and supported the Kickstarter since they promised a macOS and Linux version, you are out of luck.

Apologizing for "confusion" makes it sound like it's my fault for believing that they would make good on their self-set goals, but OK.

I'm not sure if there is any legal way to get my money back.

Like I said, doesn't surprise me in the least. Typical Nightdive shit.