With a Nintendo Switch 2 on the way, I hope Valve make a Steam Deck 2

I'd love it if they never really released a Steam Deck 2 or 3 or whatever, and instead just every year (or every other year maybe?) refreshed the internals / screen and kept calling it Steam Deck. They could do like apple does with computers. They just call it Macbook Pro 15 and then add a year (2024) to the serial number sticker or something like that.

The current design of the shell / controller / etc is perfect for me. Just needs a faster cpu/gpu and for the screen to keep getting better over the years.

The next version should in my opinion be:
* Very slightly smaller/lighter/thinner
* Another 30% battery life bump
* 6-8 cores (no need to go above 8) that's very power optimized.
* Stick to the Radeon iGPU platform (as they have lots of software for it) so probably an RDNA4 20CU setup
* Bump to 256-bit RAM (or 192bit + some kind of big cache)
* Reduce the power consumption of uncore significantly, so online idle power can be brought down to the 1W range.
* Screen can stay the same, maybe eDP with VFR.

Basically, incremental improvements in form factor, focus more on power efficiency and a wide-and-slow CPU/GPU with ample compute and bandwidth so it doesn't starve itself like e.g. Phoenix APU's do.

Obviously a Steam Deck 2 would still be AMD since it's worked out so well. More RAM will eventually be needed since games are starting to require 8GB of VRAM alone, so a SD2 with 32GB of RAM would be nice. A higher refresh rate screen, 90Hz might be enough. I never really liked how it requires a dock to hook it up to a monitor, maybe the SD2 could have a full size HDMI out next to the USBC power plug, and maybe a single USB 2/3 port, while a dock could still be used for more physical ports.

They could also release a small home version that's meant to be hooked up to a TV with no screen or battery for a lower price, but I understand that would put them in an apples to apples situation compared to other home consoles and small gaming PC's and Valve might want to stay differentiated by maintaining the handheld form factor.

Eh, I think the Nintendo Switch comparison highlights one big problem I have with the idea of a Deck 2: the Switch came out in 2017, and Switch 2 is being announced (not even coming out) in 2024. The Deck came out in 2022. It is far too early to release a Deck 2.

The benefits of a standardized hardware target are negated by too frequent changes. Being able to test for one configuration is important for devs, it is often cited as a benefit of consoles over PC, and the Deck was dealing with that nicely while also being a PC.

Sure every year we get new hardware (which is a problem: e-waste is getting out of hand, short-lived devices use more energy being manufactured than through their entire lifetime, we rely more and more on minerals that are environmentally and socially costly to extract, etc etc). The increases in performance are often marginal or come at a cost, such as lower battery life or bigger devices (phones have been steadily creeping in size, to the dismay of many people, to keep up with an artificial improvement in specs, and GPUs are ridiculously large). Costs of game development have also been increasing unreasonably. Following these frequent updates is a bad thing.

And honestly, it pisses me off immensely when people make new generations of a product that hasn't even made it into the whole world yet. Finish releasing it in all the other countries before thinking of replacing it.

What do you think is a good cadence for updates? 3 years? 4 years? more?
The 8 year cadence of the switch is too long as it has definitely been losing developer interest in the last two years as it's too weak to support on multiplatform releases anymore.

What do you think is a good cadence for updates? 3 years? 4 years? more?
The 8 year cadence of the switch is too long as it has definitely been losing developer interest in the last two years as it's too weak to support on multiplatform releases anymore.

It's far too long, the Switch was low-powered even at release and it has missed a fair amount of games as it's just not strong enough.

For the Deck 2, my suggestion there about announcing it late 2026, would mean a release in 2027. Making it about 5 years between Deck and Deck 2 which for a PC platform seems pretty darn reasonable to me, considering the Deck struggles a lot with newer games right now.

What do you think is a good cadence for updates? 3 years? 4 years? more?
The 8 year cadence of the switch is too long as it has definitely been losing developer interest in the last two years as it's too weak to support on multiplatform releases anymore.

It's far too long, the Switch was low-powered even at release and it has missed a fair amount of games as it's just not strong enough.

For the Deck 2, my suggestion there about announcing it late 2026, would mean a release in 2027. Making it about 5 years between Deck and Deck 2 which for a PC platform seems pretty darn reasonable to me, considering the Deck struggles a lot with newer games right now.

Hmm, but the gamble Valve took was minimised with Deck 1. I'm sure I read that they had to reserve a minimum of 2 million chips for a custom design, and that they were thinking there's no way we'll sell that many.
Likely that's why the Deck OLED came out so soon after as they ran out of their initial order and it was a similar cost to do an updated node.

Now with Deck 2 they can push a little harder if they aim to sell, e.g. 10 million of em. So instead of tacking on last-gen CPU cores to a current gen GPU, they could get more modern things.

So I'm thinking that the first generation cadence would make sense to be a little shorter, as there are already games where the Deck struggles.

So would be happy if they announce the next version end of next year for 2026 release.

And what do you now want from a Steam Deck 2?

A lot of the failings of the first-gen Deck got fixed with the OLED - the bezels got reduced, the battery life got improved, L1/R1 got less janky, the not-great display got swapped, the too-small 64 GB SKU got dropped, and the power LED has status colours.

There are still remaining improvements that can be made, though, so I'd like

• enough performance to run 2026-current and near-future AAA games at native resolution at 30 fps or higher
  
• OLED for every SKU
  
• stacked cache on the APU for more effective bandwidth
  
• any magical new-fangled battery tech that lets you fit more battery inside.
  
• additional intake vents along the bottom edge so that neither "propped in lap" nor "balanced on a sofa arm" will completely starve the cooling of air
  
• a Kensington slot. If the Deck becomes the de facto machine to leave at trade shows or hand out to focus groups, then "the machine that my in-development game absolutely has to run well on" is the Deck
  
• further improved L1/R1 buttons, and potentially make those analogue
  
• have some means, either tactile or backlight, to find the supplemental buttons.
  
• since both "game developers don't test below 1080p" and "this game is only Playable rather than Verified because the text is too small" are both things, a size bump to 8½-9 inches and a resolution bump to 1920×1200 if they can get that to meet the performance requirements
  
• a kickstand, or a prop solution that comes in the box, since external controller support is already good.
  
• sticky strips instead of glue, and maintaining or improving the deconstruction process
  

Whether it will need a RAM bump and a storage bump is hard to say right now, but it seems like it might. Streaming-to-Deck and shopping-on-Deck need work already, but they'll want to fix up both of those before a Deck 2 is released.


Last edited by CatKiller on 8 May 2024 at 2:58 pm UTC

It is far too early to release a Deck 2

Why? Desktop generation of CPUs and GPUs refresh around once per 2 years. Same happens with mobile phones. Why can't gaming handhelds refresh that way too?

he benefits of a standardized hardware target are negated by too frequent changes

That somehow doesn't bother desktop gaming.

Waste can be an issue, but you aren't forced to buy new hardware every time there is a generation update.


Last edited by Shmerl on 8 May 2024 at 3:02 pm UTC

If they could release it in Australia first...

If they could release it in Australia first...

Oops, yes, that's something that I forgot to put on my list: worldwide availability.

Steam Deck 360, followed by Steam Deck One

It is far too early to release a Deck 2

Why? Desktop generation of CPUs and GPUs refresh around once per 2 years. Same happens with mobile phones. Why can't gaming handhelds refresh that way too?

he benefits of a standardized hardware target are negated by too frequent changes

That somehow doesn't bother desktop gaming.

Waste can be an issue, but you aren't forced to buy new hardware every time there is a generation update.

It's a very tricky thing to balance. They don't want to release a SD2 too soon since it will make current buyers feel burned, and they don't want to wait too long since interest will fall as it ages.

It is far too early to release a Deck 2

Why? Desktop generation of CPUs and GPUs refresh around once per 2 years. Same happens with mobile phones. Why can't gaming handhelds refresh that way too?

he benefits of a standardized hardware target are negated by too frequent changes

That somehow doesn't bother desktop gaming.

Waste can be an issue, but you aren't forced to buy new hardware every time there is a generation update.

Depends on who Valve want to target for the Steam Deck. Is it PC gamers that already going to have a Desktop, and the Deck just turns their gaming experience into a portable one? Or are they trying to target the console gaming market, where people would only play their gaming library on the Deck, whether Docked or not? If the latter group, it should realistically have a similar cadence of release as the console market does.

There definitely is a difference in thought processes between the people who game on computers, and those who use gaming consoles. I've always been more of a computer gamer, even though I do own a few consoles, I don't use them very often (sadly the Deck included). Most of the time the games themselves don't really need or use the latest GPU features anyhow. A portable computer, like the Steam Deck, shouldn't really be expected to run the latest Unreal Engine 5 games that are coming out soon, or some of the AAA gaming that is out there. Then again, with a large majority of the AAA games becoming stupidly greedy (Hi, Ubisoft), it's probably a great thing overall that we can just give them the finger as they won't run very well on a portable system anyhow.

As for Nintendo releasing a new console? Who knows if they'll even do a Switch 2, they usually like to change up the gaming industry with something weird/unique. That's the only reason I even bought a Switch. If the Steam Deck had been available then, I really would have rather bought one of those. After Nintendo's recent shenanigans, I'd be surprised if anyone around here supports them in any way. Though I know there are some hard core Nintendo fans, I'm old enough to remember Atari being king, and think I'd rather have a portable VCS 800. :P

I feel like living room form factor would probably be next. Althouuugh, why not both? Or a combination. A handheld that docks to a box with a more powerful GPU and allowing all the APU's RAM to just be RAM.

It's a very tricky thing to balance. They don't want to release a SD2 too soon since it will make current buyers feel burned, and they don't want to wait too long since interest will fall as it ages.

Having a stable target platform is important, and Valve have said as much.

A CPU generation is one year. A GPU generation is two years. A typical PC upgrade cycle is 3-4 years. A console generation is 5-7 years. Slotting a Deck generation in at 4-5 years makes sense to me, to balance the fixed target against staying relevant as a part of the wider PC ecosystem, but I don't work for Valve or AMD. For ease of reference, the Deck was announced in mid-2021 and released early-2022, with the OLED released late-2023. I'm expecting 2026 to be the time that the Deck 2 is released (or perhaps only announced) as 5 years from the announcement and 4 years from the release of the Deck 1. (Edit: although 2027 works, too, as 4 years from the release of the OLED and 5 years from the release of the LCD)


Last edited by CatKiller on 8 May 2024 at 3:48 pm UTC

Aside from what has already been mentionned, what I would like the most is an external gpu docking station for 4k couch gaming (oculink maybe?) that brings it to current gen console, performance wise.

That would make it the perfect console replacement, imo.

It is far too early to release a Deck 2

Why? Desktop generation of CPUs and GPUs refresh around once per 2 years. Same happens with mobile phones. Why can't gaming handhelds refresh that way too?

he benefits of a standardized hardware target are negated by too frequent changes

That somehow doesn't bother desktop gaming.

Waste can be an issue, but you aren't forced to buy new hardware every time there is a generation update.

Why? Because the release frequency of those things is too high, and their support ends too soon, and that is something that should be actively avoided and not targeted. We should be glad when things last longer instead of asking for obsolescence.

And yeah I am not forced to buy new hardware, in fact I am not capable if I wanted. But are companies going to support all their back catalog? Are they going to sell replacement parts and patch bugs for all the previous generations? My phones certainly stop receiving updates much sooner than I'd want to replace them (if I could afford the high-end phones, they would get updates for a bit longer - still not enough - but it is expensive to be poor). About gaming in particular, are companies going to keep making games targeting earlier generations, or are minimum specs going to increase?

I am not worried about being "forced" to buy a new device. I am worried about my desktop not running games because everyone decided that instead of making games with more reasonable requirements they should up the specs of devices every two years. And I am worried about catastrophic floods and historic droughts in my country because people care more about a small boost to FPS than about climate catastrophe. I won't buy new devices every two years, but I share an atmosphere with the people that do.

If the latter group, it should realistically have a similar cadence of release as the console market does.

There definitely is a difference in thought processes between the people who game on computers, and those who use gaming consoles.

I've always seen that console refresh cadence as indication of lack of competition. Imagine desktop GPU and CPU makers would have a monopoly. I highly doubt they'll invest so much money in refreshing hardware as they do now. Same applies to mobile market. They'll try to market their slow progress as "it's good enough" to make that the user's expectation.

So if console market would have been more competitive, we also would have seen refresh cycles being much shorter. At least that's what I think is the real reason.

I.e. that whole "console expectation" is a marketing construct, not something inherently defined.


Last edited by Shmerl on 8 May 2024 at 4:49 pm UTC

My take on this is that I won't buy the Switch 2 because the Steam Deck still satisfies my gaming without whatever restrictions that Nintendo likes to do with their console. Also, as I've mentioned in the past, I'm not giving anymore money to them for all the crap they've been pulling for decades on and even their games do nothing for me nowadays.

As for the Steam Deck 2, it'd be cool if they could add support for eGPUs since that would make it nice to play games with better performance/resolution when docked. Also, as many others have said, a better battery to last longer while on the go. Other than that, the Steam Deck has been an awesome device for me and I would gladly buy a Steam Deck 2 whenever it gets released.