Canonical detail improvements the Steam Snap, work to advance gaming continues on Ubuntu

Quoting: scaineThe extension framework did eventually land, making Shell usable again, but by that time Unity had a groundswell of fans.

Like any GNOME purist, I completely disagree with the premise. GNOME is great even without extensions and I don't use any. Though needing to hit alt when selecting the power options to get to a "hidden" option was a decision that was thankfully quickly reversed.

Quoting: scaineAs usual, it baffles me that people pick on Canonical as the bad guy whenever they innovate. They're not afraid to drop things when better things come along, but they have a vision and when existing tech can't supply on that vision, they innovate. The essence of Linux, but they're constantly trashed for it.

I think Unity was cool though I've never tried it, Upstart was a good idea, and Bazaar was definitely a good idea. I thought Ubuntu Touch was probably the best idea but Canonical weren't committed to it.

I agree in general that Canonical's innovation is something to admire. Waiting around for upstream to implement your changes if they even feel like they match the project's needs is just the wrong move. Especially when you have the resources to move on your own.

Snap, though, I really don't like. Because it's doing way more to divide the community than bring it together. Snap only works properly and securely on Ubuntu because Ubuntu is the only distribution that carries the correct kernel patches and they still haven't managed to get them upstreamed after several years. So even though Canonical is doing a great thing by directly engaging with software vendors to get their software on Linux through Snap, I wish they'd do something that benefitted every distribution rather than just themselves. They're under no obligation to, obviously, but it's just annoying.

I wish they'd at least pre-install Flatpak and setup the Flathub remote on Ubuntu. Then, users from every major distribution wouldn't need to use the terminal to setup the easiest way to install software on Linux.

And Mir's still around, though it's a Wayland compositor nowadays. I don't know enough about it to say whether it was a good or bad thing. But they contribute to protocol discussions, so that's cool.

I also think System76 are doing some really cool things with COSMIC. I don't think there was anyone who thought Unity was a poor decision? Are there really people that have that opinion?

Is Ubuntu the only distro still pushing Snaps?

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: scaineThe extension framework did eventually land, making Shell usable again, but by that time Unity had a groundswell of fans.

Like any GNOME purist, I completely disagree with the premise. GNOME is great even without extensions and I don't use any. Though needing to hit alt when selecting the power options to get to a "hidden" option was a decision that was thankfully quickly reversed.

Quoting: scaineAs usual, it baffles me that people pick on Canonical as the bad guy whenever they innovate. They're not afraid to drop things when better things come along, but they have a vision and when existing tech can't supply on that vision, they innovate. The essence of Linux, but they're constantly trashed for it.

I think Unity was cool though I've never tried it, Upstart was a good idea, and Bazaar was definitely a good idea. I thought Ubuntu Touch was probably the best idea but Canonical weren't committed to it.

I agree in general that Canonical's innovation is something to admire. Waiting around for upstream to implement your changes if they even feel like they match the project's needs is just the wrong move. Especially when you have the resources to move on your own.

Snap, though, I really don't like. Because it's doing way more to divide the community than bring it together. Snap only works properly and securely on Ubuntu because Ubuntu is the only distribution that carries the correct kernel patches and they still haven't managed to get them upstreamed after several years. So even though Canonical is doing a great thing by directly engaging with software vendors to get their software on Linux through Snap, I wish they'd do something that benefitted every distribution rather than just themselves. They're under no obligation to, obviously, but it's just annoying.

I wish they'd at least pre-install Flatpak and setup the Flathub remote on Ubuntu. Then, users from every major distribution wouldn't need to use the terminal to setup the easiest way to install software on Linux.

And Mir's still around, though it's a Wayland compositor nowadays. I don't know enough about it to say whether it was a good or bad thing. But they contribute to protocol discussions, so that's cool.

I also think System76 are doing some really cool things with COSMIC. I don't think there was anyone who thought Unity was a poor decision? Are there really people that have that opinion?

I don't think there's anyone much who thinks doing Unity at all was a bad thing. I think some felt that they were acting like it was intended to be one DE to rule them all, to "Unify" the Linux experience, and weren't enthused about that perceived attitude. I can't say whether that was actually their attitude, but I do remember such a perception existing, which was kind of helped along just by calling it "Unity".

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualLike any GNOME purist, I completely disagree with the premise. GNOME is great even without extensions and I don't use any.

I'm sure that's true now, (for you and many others, even though I still disagree) but back in 2010, the original Shell beta was baffling and largely unusable unless you followed blogs that described the philosophy behind it.

Just tried Ubuntu 24.04 last week, installed Steam from snap and had 2 bugs:
1. I couldn't add more than 1 item to storage (1 + default), which made it unusable for me.
2. I couldn't add Proton-GE, it didn't see folder where Proton-GE was located.

Removed the snap package, installed the .deb package from Steam - and everything worked fine.


Last edited by MaximB on 18 June 2024 at 8:30 am UTC

Quoting: Tuxee

Quoting: grigiwhy do they always have to do the Not-Invented-Here thing all the time.

You are aware that most of the NIH stuff came before nowadays established alternatives?

upstart (2006) preceded systemd (2010).
Unity (2010) preceded Gnome Shell (2011).
Snap (2014) preceded Flatpak (2015).
And when Mir was announced in 2013 Wayland was a long shot from being remotely usable.
Even Bazaar (26 March 2005) came a few days before Git (7 April 2005 after a 3 day development).

Stop making sense and hop on the Canonical hate train. Shoo shoo!

Jokes aside I truly for my life cannot understand all the push-back Canonical receives no matter what they do. I suspect is because I'm a former Windows user, I didn't care about things like package formats then and I still don't on Linux. I don't even know what different package formats are used on Windows. It's just one of those things that never comes up but when I switched to Linux then suddenly the community is very engaged if an app is snap, flatpack, appimage or whatever. It's like moving to a new country and realizing that you can never be fully part of the culture.

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualLike any GNOME purist, I completely disagree with the premise. GNOME is great even without extensions and I don't use any.

I'm sure that's true now, (for you and many others, even though I still disagree) but back in 2010, the original Shell beta was baffling and largely unusable unless you followed blogs that described the philosophy behind it.

I've heard stories. Not having a "shutdown" button was the one I remember, but I can't find sources for it.

Please, if you can find anything about dumb designs for the original GNOME 3, I'd love to see it.

I think GNOME has the best interface, hands down, but they need to catch up to KDE Plasma in terms of Wayland support, they need better multi-monitor support, and why can't they just get along with everyone else?

So I use both. And soon, COSMIC, hopefully.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI think some felt that they were acting like it was intended to be one DE to rule them all, to "Unify" the Linux experience, and weren't enthused about that perceived attitude.

There's no pleasing some people. And Linux users are the hardest to please. Cynical by nature; pedantic by vocation.

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: F.Ultra

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quotesupporting externally downloaded .deb files

It still baffles me that a supposedly user-friendly distribution required you to use apt in the terminal to install .deb files until now.

Note that this is for the App Center that they introduced in 23.10, their previous app did support installing external .deb files from the GUI just fine.

I'm only speaking from experience; the last time I needed to try Ubuntu for the sake of documentation was 23.04 and I could not for the life of me figure out how to install a .deb file. When I double-clicked it, it would open up the software store and try to install the older one in Ubuntu's repositories. Maddening.

Strange, in 23.04 they used the GNOME Software Center and I routinely clicked on .debs to install them externally (though have to be said that the .debs that I installed externally didn't also exist in the repos).

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualLike any GNOME purist, I completely disagree with the premise. GNOME is great even without extensions and I don't use any.

I'm sure that's true now, (for you and many others, even though I still disagree) but back in 2010, the original Shell beta was baffling and largely unusable unless you followed blogs that described the philosophy behind it.

I've heard stories. Not having a "shutdown" button was the one I remember, but I can't find sources for it.

Please, if you can find anything about dumb designs for the original GNOME 3, I'd love to see it.

I think GNOME has the best interface, hands down, but they need to catch up to KDE Plasma in terms of Wayland support, they need better multi-monitor support, and why can't they just get along with everyone else?

So I use both. And soon, COSMIC, hopefully.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyI think some felt that they were acting like it was intended to be one DE to rule them all, to "Unify" the Linux experience, and weren't enthused about that perceived attitude.

There's no pleasing some people. And Linux users are the hardest to please. Cynical by nature; pedantic by vocation.

Not sure how correct any of Linus's rant are here (I never used Gnome 3.x myself), but the Internet was not kind to Gnome 3 when it came out:

Linus Torvalds finds GNOME 3.4 to be a "total user experience design failure"

QuoteI only dislike the latest version of the GNOME Linux desktop, Linus Torvalds, Linux's primary inventor, hates it.

And that was for 3.4 what was the fixed version, imagine just how much was written when 3.0 came. It's the whole reason why MATE exists and for Canonical that up to then had been THE Gnome desktop they saw no other path forward than to create Unity, it was less of a NIH and more of a major user backlash.

Linus Torvalds would like to see a GNOME fork
A shiny new ornament for your Linux lawn: Ars reviews GNOME 3.0
GNOME 3: Shocking changes for Linux lovers

Linus came around in the end though: Linus Torvalds switches back to Gnome 3.x desktop


Last edited by F.Ultra on 18 June 2024 at 6:55 pm UTC

Quoting: F.UltraStrange, in 23.04 they used the GNOME Software Center and I routinely clicked on .debs to install them externally (though have to be said that the .debs that I installed externally didn't also exist in the repos).

Ubuntu always packages an out-of-date version of Lutris, which lacks certain important features, so the newer version was a requirement. I didn't do any testing outside of that package, so it's good to know that the Lightworks .deb package would likely have worked, for example.

Quoting: F.UltraNot sure how correct any of Linus's rant are here (I never used Gnome 3.x myself), but the Internet was not kind to Gnome 3 when it came out:

Linus Torvalds finds GNOME 3.4 to be a "total user experience design failure"

QuoteI only dislike the latest version of the GNOME Linux desktop, Linus Torvalds, Linux's primary inventor, hates it.

And that was for 3.4 what was the fixed version, imagine just how much was written when 3.0 came. It's the whole reason why MATE exists and for Canonical that up to then had been THE Gnome desktop they saw no other path forward than to create Unity, it was less of a NIH and more of a major user backlash.

Linus Torvalds would like to see a GNOME fork
A shiny new ornament for your Linux lawn: Ars reviews GNOME 3.0
GNOME 3: Shocking changes for Linux lovers

Linus came around in the end though: Linus Torvalds switches back to Gnome 3.x desktop

Thanks! I knew a little about Linus and GNOME 3, but it's good to have a comprehensive account. Linus was more active in the desktop space back then, but it's still surprising to see him make comments (positive or negative) on the state of a particular desktop. He never does that anymore. I suppose that's a good an indication as any as to how polarising (or dire, if you take a certain view) the design was.

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: pleasereadthemanualLike any GNOME purist, I completely disagree with the premise. GNOME is great even without extensions and I don't use any.

I'm sure that's true now, (for you and many others, even though I still disagree) but back in 2010, the original Shell beta was baffling and largely unusable unless you followed blogs that described the philosophy behind it.

Having owned a Nokia N900, it made perfect sense to me. I still miss using that phone, it was lovely.