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The Manjaro Linux team are asking for testers for their new data collection tool called "Manjaro Data Donor", which they plan to have as opt-out and not opt-in.

As expected, they are catching some comments from users not particularly happy about their plan to have it hooked up as something you have to opt out of due to privacy concerns. Telemetry is often a bad word to a lot of people, but the reality is that when done correctly it can be truly essential for projects to know where to focus.

Manjaro developer Roman Gilg said in the announcement that currently they use Matomo, which is pinged via the Network Manager but it's unreliable for various reasons. So they created Manjaro Data Donor (MDD) which gives more information and should be more reliable overall, and they actually have full control over it.

Currently they just want Manjaro users to test it and give feedback, but eventually it will be hooked up as a systemd service:

In the next few days we’ll do some more testing and if results are positive, I plan on installing it on all Manjaro systems and adding a systemd service to submit the data automatically.

As a reminder: Right now you have to install MDD manually and there is no systemd service yet.

With this systemd service later in place, sending the hardware data with MDD will be opt-out because I believe, if you do opt-in, the data you gather will be so heavily skewed you can just leave it be.

Let me know what you think. I know telemetry is a contentious subject, but we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used by so many people around the world in order to show that the project has a future and also to plan for that future.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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45 comments
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Klaas Nov 5
No to unnecessary systemd services. That's just adding bloat.
Maki Nov 5
How about no?
ready and waiting with popcorn to see how this one turns out ...!

Spoiler, click me
after backlash it will be changed to opt-in
"Manjaro Data Donor", which they plan to have as opt-out and not opt-in.
I think this is fine if they give you an undismissable prompt telling you they're going to do it and letting you opt out.

I know telemetry is a contentious subject, but we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used by so many people around the world in order to show that the project has a future and also to plan for that future.
I sympathise with the plight (even though it's Manjaro's plight), but I can't reconcile the morality of opt-out telemetry. If you do opt-out telemetry, you believe you are entitled to your user's data. Is there any scenario where that isn't true?

Another way of saying the same thing is:

If we do opt-out telemetry, we'll snag a high percentage of people who don't even realize we're collecting data on them who would otherwise not consent to having their data collected if we made it opt-in. But this data is really important for us; more important than your consent.
I can't reconcile it.


Last edited by pleasereadthemanual on 5 November 2024 at 10:51 am UTC
Stella Nov 5
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I disagree with unnecessary telemetry... especially when it's default on. That's Windows level of ignorance from the devs
dpanter Nov 5
Opt-out is wrong, god damnit Manjaro. Are they being stupid on purpose? It never ends with this cursed project.
emphy Nov 5
There's always a reason that the organisation in question deems to be a good one.

The problem is, anything short of informed and active consent is ethically (possibly, also legally in some parts of the world) a step on the road in the wrong direction, however much it may be paved with good intentions.

Imo, providing "free" (or, indeed any) software does not give devs the right to trample on this elementary principle, regardless of whether it concerns important usage statistics or something as small as a begging notification.

The second problem I see here is that I am getting sick to the core of telemetry-driven development. There are devs out there, including in major projects, that will take more time to argue that a certain modification did not result in a significant change of usage statistics than it took for a single-person fork project to implement an option to re-enable said feature.


Last edited by emphy on 5 November 2024 at 11:40 am UTC
Chrisznix Nov 5
I was quite some time on Manjaro and had a good time with it, but the problems with their own repositories drove me to EndeavourOs (feels really good( for toying around and Mint as daily drivers (perfect for kids family). If i had not made the switch already, this would have triggered it. If it would have been opt-in, i absolutely would have enabled it.
WORM Nov 5
we need at least some data about how Manjaro is being used by so many people around the world in order to show that the project has a future and also to plan for that future.

If Manjaro doesn't have a future, it will be because of stunts like this.
CZiNTrPT Nov 5
In my country real organ donorship is opt-out and that's right approach as well
dpanter Nov 5
In my country real organ donorship is opt-out and that's right approach as well
Which country is that? Sounds like human rights violation to me.


Last edited by dpanter on 5 November 2024 at 2:43 pm UTC
With all this doom and gloom talk about the end of Manjaro, I have to ask, what's the best alternative?

(Of course every Linux distro seems to be surrounded by pronouncements of its impending demise, but it rarely comes to pass.)


Last edited by Mountain Man on 5 November 2024 at 2:51 pm UTC
Okona Nov 5
Opt out is not the right thing to do. Why not integrate it into a nice welcome application and make it very clear why and what data you want to collect.

One of THE pro arguments supporting the Linux choice are - after all - the freedom that your software does not spy on you.
wytrabbit Nov 5
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If it's taken without asking it ain't a donation. Data Donor riiight.
Brokatt Nov 5
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Truth is telemetry is really useful for developers and without it's way too easy to make the wrong assumptions. The sad reality is that with opt-in you get a very small data sample that can actually distort the view compared with opt-out. I know this is a sensitive subject in the community but I believe this can be done correctly even with opt-out. With the correct information about the collection displayed to the user, with clear ways to decline, and the correct amount of data collected. It all comes down to how it's implemented. Of course no personal data, no unique identifiers and no usage data should be collected. It remains to be seen how Manjaro handles this.

Most of us here on Gaming on Linux use Steam and they gather lots of telemetry data. I fully expect KDE Linux to use telemetry. You simply need to use telemetry if you are serious about your OS. That's my two cents.
Klaas Nov 5
Truth is telemetry is really useful for developers and without it's way too easy to make the wrong assumptions.
And it is even easier to make wrong assumptions due to telemetry. Calling it a double-edged sword even with consent is putting it mildly.
In my country real organ donorship is opt-out and that's right approach as well
I was with you until "as well".
Dorrit Nov 5
If a given Distro, any Distro, concentrates on providing the most stable, comprehensive, easy, qualitative experience it won't need data collection; people will use it.
Look at Mint or MX-Linux.
If Manjaro has a problem maybe it's within the project.
Or maybe their expectations are too high.
melkemind Nov 5
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I'm hoping enough people will tell them they don't want opt out so they'll reconsider. I'd hate to see it die over something this dumb.

There is this perception with technology that because they can, they should, that more private data is somehow necessary. But we know it's not because the technology hasn't always existed.

Back before the internet, people sold software and had no way of knowing what people did with it, and their businesses were fine, better than fine in some cases.


Last edited by melkemind on 5 November 2024 at 4:37 pm UTC
Termy Nov 5
which they plan to have as opt-out and not opt-in.

Oh lord, will they ever learn?!
Even Microsoft has Telemetry as Opt-In - at least in Power-Toys.
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