What a stupid poll. I’m glad it has no bearing on anything and GoL and the Earth will continue as it has.

I believe this sort of article is warranted, someone might care the game includes something that might offend them and might not want to support the dev. Like I’d be happy if Liam told me some game included a beer called “All heterosexual white males should be killed with a shovel” as I wouldn’t buy it then. Just like I demand my money back every time I walk out of the cinema after I’ve found out the bad guy was a white middle-aged man.

And we have no god-given right to voice our opinions on anything anywhere, only where other people have given us the ability to do so. Liam correctly anticipated the comments on those articles to go downhill (now that’s an understatement) and locked them for his own reasons, even if those were just to save him the hassle of having to read them, as I’m sure he has better things to do with his life. It’s fully his prerogative and as far as I’m concerned he’s been completely successful as now there’s just people complaining they can’t comment instead of the thing that would have happened if they could.

Good job and thank you.

Due to my disappointment I decided to lower my monthly GoL pledge on Patreon (I don't urge anyone else to do the same, of course).

Isn't it a bit extreme? :S:

Due to my disappointment I decided to lower my monthly GoL pledge on Patreon (I don't urge anyone else to do the same, of course).

Isn't it a bit extreme? :S:

No, it's just my stance. GoL lost some of the value for me so I reevaluated it accordingly. Extreme would be leaving completely and slamming the door. But I'm disappointed, not pissed off. And it's not a final decision as I may as well raise it back. Just free market doing its thing.

Due to my disappointment I decided to lower my monthly GoL pledge on Patreon (I don't urge anyone else to do the same, of course).

Isn't it a bit extreme? :S:

No, it's just my stance. GoL lost some of the value for me so I reevaluated it accordingly. Extreme would be leaving completely and slamming the door. But I'm disappointed, not pissed off. And it's not a final decision as I may as well raise it back. Just free market doing its thing.

Ok, if you feel that way it's your right.

Liam, Reddit's moderation system doesn't have to be copy-pasted exactly into GoL, you own the site and its codebase. It could be changed to specifics that you choose. Making Mods and the Admin(s?) immune to any up/downvoting at all is one change you could make, then everyone can still see what the people who run the site say.

Worried about servers being stuffed with downvoted rubbish threads over time? Make the most downvoted threads have a timed purge of 30 days, because who needs a huge thread with people saying "you're an idiot" to someone the community already decided it doesn't like?

Honestly trying to save you from either of the above poll options here, because if the community has chosen what to do with a comment, it isn't as arbitrary-seeming for a comment to be hidden away.

You'd probably want to write gaming articles that make you excited and spend time with your family, instead of worrying about moderating comments about the latest controversial gaming gossip (which you chose to write about) the rest of your day.

* * * *

Secondly, I made a mistake with the "opinions on your own time" comment because you run the site. I also said a [RANT] disclaimer would have improved the situation. I don't want to shut you up. Turning the comments off on the second article gave you a captive audience, or perhaps you wanted to not deal with the drama of moderating that day (despite focusing more on the drama in the first place).

It's good when the games are in focus, not gender identities, sexual orientations, political leanings, race issues and so on. If anything of the above issues (and many other like that) appears it ultimately only brings discord to the community and radicalizes it, makes people pick sides because they are all different and have different beliefs and backgrounds. And saying some beliefs are right and others are wrong is like saying that some people are invalid/trash and others are valid/good. Which is not true most of the time.

rkfg said it best, so I borrowed it.

Courting controversy for attention is the same slippery slope Slashdot made (good moderation, bad article/topic choices). The more off-topic things became, "How is this tech news?" became a sitewide meme. The users were disillusioned by "What Trump/AOC/whoever said on Twitter will shock you!", instead of getting what they were coming for: tech news. Slashdot's flawed reasoning for the off-topic Tweets were that they were a part of Twitter: a website, so that makes it tech news. I used to read Slashdot, but left because of too many irrelevant articles, not because of its users and their behaviour.

* * * *

As for gaming censorship in general: I despise the current pressure in the world to make art "safe". No matter how much additional material a creator is told to remove or add, nobody will be completely satisfied. The devs of Ion Fury are still making a huge donation to The Trevor Project and *still* no one is satisfied. What does it take for their sins to be forgiven?

Humour isn't: "I make fun because these people don't deserve my respect, or to even exist". We didn't used to think humour was like this, sometimes even if it was offensive to many people, why is it different now?

We can act completely differently in the real world in contrast to whatever bad examples a video game will give us, we're not children.

We still played Duke Nukem as teens precisely because it pissed our parents off, not because we were closeted chauvinist, arrogant pricks. Let's not forget our past and paint homages to those games, like Ion Fury, as homophobic because of a couple of jokes some people hated.

I don't know how clearer I can be on this: A down-vote system of any kind is absolutely never coming here for the reasons I already gave. Simply giving editors a block against it solves nothing for how it ends up on users.

Honestly trying to save you from either of the above poll options here

With respect, neither of those options have ever been on the table. I don't need saving, I run the show ;) -> If people don't like it, they can leave (as some over time have) and start their own site (as some also have).

I respect the opinions shown here and there's some interesting points to think on. However, I think I'm personally done on this debate now :).

I have to add a disclaimer here that this is my own opinion and I'm not official staff in any way. I do not speak for Liam, obviously. I'm just a guy who contributes to GOL because I like this place.

You'd probably want to write gaming articles that make you excited and spend time with your family, instead of worrying about moderating comments about the latest controversial gaming gossip (which you chose to write about) the rest of your day.

Secondly, I made a mistake with the "opinions on your own time" comment because you run the site. I also said a [RANT] disclaimer would have improved the situation. I don't want to shut you up. Turning the comments off on the second article gave you a captive audience, or perhaps you wanted to not deal with the drama of moderating that day (despite focusing more on the drama in the first place).

The article was tagged as an editorial.

It's good when the games are in focus, not gender identities, sexual orientations, political leanings, race issues and so on. If anything of the above issues (and many other like that) appears it ultimately only brings discord to the community and radicalizes it, makes people pick sides because they are all different and have different beliefs and backgrounds. And saying some beliefs are right and others are wrong is like saying that some people are invalid/trash and others are valid/good. Which is not true most of the time.

Whether you like it or not, everything is political. I sure as hell wouldn't contribute to GOL if I thought that you couldn't talk about industry-wide issues. Where do you draw the line? Is it okay to talk about the epic games store and its exclusivity if it were to start selling Linux games? What about the various other controversies regarding publishers or developers? I could name a dozen. I have enough faith that people have enough agency in their lives to see posts that are marked as opinions and make their own conclusions. When I write reviews, for example, I explain why I like a game or not and never present it as objective fact. The same goes for the few editorials and the like that I have written. I believe Liam does the same.

Courting controversy for attention is the same slippery slope Slashdot made (good moderation, bad article/topic choices).

This is about as disingenuous as your original premise of there only being one of two choices for the situation here. Liam writes things because he thinks they're relevant and not because of clicks or likes. If you haven't noticed, this website isn't run on ads or corporate interests.

As for gaming censorship in general: I despise the current pressure in the world to make art "safe". No matter how much additional material a creator is told to remove or add, nobody will be completely satisfied. The devs of Ion Fury are still making a huge donation to The Trevor Project and *still* no one is satisfied. What does it take for their sins to be forgiven?

I don't believe anyone here has argued anything similar to what you're saying there.

You're all free to think what you want and do what you want with your time and money. I just think it's unreasonable to expect Liam or any others to cater solely to your interests. As evidenced by some of the other responses here, people do care to hear about this sort of stuff. And speaking as someone who has had to deal with toxic posts (name-calling, flaming and irrelevant tangents) it's entirely reasonable to lock comments after a while. The last Ion Fury article was not made in a vacuum - it followed a large and contentious discussion where it was just childish back and forth. I definitely think it's reasonable to preempt the same noise elsewhere. It's like when we get "Steam is DRM" and "Is not!" posts - after a certain point there's nothing of value to that.

Like rkfg, I come here for linux gaming related news though, not to have propaganda and political opinions shoved down my throat. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... And I'm outta here.

What's the problem with opinions that differ from yours? Echo chambers only lead to more conflict down the road. Liam has made it pretty clear that within certain limits, all opinions are welcome as long as you behave.

I am not fond of slashdot type moderation either. Far from promoting "quality" comments they simply favour dominant opinions. It actually goes in the direction of censorship. Plus you end up pushing off base banalities. The larger your public is, the worse are the promoted banalities.

Exactly why it will not happen here, to ensure people do actually get an equal voice in comments and forum posts.

If people don't like it, they can leave [...] and start their own site

Ah, the YouTube defence. Classic strategy.

This is the most overused argument in these situations. If I had the time, tech savvy, hardware, money, and sanity available to do such a thing, why the hell would I make suggestions in the first place?

If you really want to know why I made these suggestions to you rather than starting my own website and implementing them myself, it's because I'm a fan of GamingOnLinux and I thought it might help you, your personal life, and the community. Pardon me for caring so much. Next time I'll try harder to care less.

Cestarian is right, though, it just made me more pissed off to not have an outlet for dissent (visible in the comments, not hidden here) so that you -- and other readers -- would know what other people think too, even if you didn't like what the commenters had to say. That's how you respect people's opinions, not by just claiming to and telling them to piss off if they don't like how things are run.

It would have been simpler for everyone to let the comments go on until they burn themselves out (unless they do something against the rules or law). Too much to ask for?

If people don't like it, they can leave [...] and start their own site

Ah, the YouTube defence. Classic strategy.

That's me getting tired of repeating myself and my stance. Some points will be taken on and thought on in more depth.

I've already given the reasons why it was locked, I don't wish to continue repeating myself on it. Right decision? In the end, who knows but it's done now.

Don't put GamingOnLinux, me or other editors in a box of your own making. We have never claimed to not have an opinion, I also absolutely do not agree that we shouldn't give our opinion, we've posted numerous editorials over the years and will continue to do so. This was a special case, since it affected Linux too being a Linux game.

Again, I've said all I care to on the topic now. I've put my own points across, as have others.

A poll on extremes is pointless as most people don't want any extreme. For a valuable result you need add an option in between. Like say, I think it is being handled fine the way it is. That was intentional though wasn't it? I don't want either option and have no reason to vote. Never locking comments ever and having a completely open forum just doesn't work. You end up with comment sections like some current "news" organizations whose comment sections are almost nothing but hate filled, racist, misinformation distributing moronic dribble. They just highlight the worst that our society has to offer. Free speech means you have the right to voice your opinion, it doesn't mean people are forced to listen to you or allow you to post those opinions on their forums or other venues. If you want people to listen to you, you have to find people that want to listen to you, not try and force people to listen to you. There are places that let people say pretty much anything.

Personally, I'm more than happy for racists, bigots and free marketeers to vote with their feet and go away. Good riddance, I say. I find it ironic that those who label other people as "Social Justice Warriors" tend to be heavily armed and willing to inflict violence on others, whereas those who are labelled as "SJWs" tend to be the least warrior-like people imaginable.

Power to the peaceful, as Michael Franti often sings.

The problem here is that when Liam posted this article he picked a side, rather than just making a neutral article about it

He is a journalist, journalism is not neutral.
Would you like if he's been sending the neutral "You may support Linux or you may not" to the video games editors?
I read the website because I support the view of the contributors (and I will support financially the moment I have a stable income)
I totally support Liam & co on this issue. GOL is their home, free speech don't mean you can go on other peoples home to say rude things. If they want to close comment on an article because there are risk of a flame war who will cost them a few hours of their time to moderate it is their right. They have a finite amount of time to give to GOL that has so many better uses.

If I had the time, tech savvy, hardware, money, and sanity available to do such a thing, why the hell would I make suggestions in the first place?

I think now would be a good time for all of us to thank Liam for making the time and putting so much of his tech savvy, hardware, money, and sanity into keeping this place running.

An air of entitlement is hanging about at present.

Like rkfg, I come here for linux gaming related news though, not to have propaganda and political opinions shoved down my throat. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... And I'm outta here.

What's the problem with opinions that differ from yours? Echo chambers only lead to more conflict down the road. Liam has made it pretty clear that within certain limits, all opinions are welcome as long as you behave.

Clearly all opinions are not welcome, when the comments are locked. And that is what I said was the biggest problem. You're just taking what I said out of context.

No I'm not. Not allowing all-out fights or "bad behaviour" does not silence anyone's opinion. The comments were locked for everyone, not just people who don't agree with Liam. Any opinion worth putting out can be put out respectfully, and respectful discussions have never been locked or heavily moderated on this site.

I like how you speak as if what I want is an echo chamber when I'm saying I want the opposite. People can have whatever opinions they want, and it's wrong to silence those opinions, conversely that also applies to my own opinions.

Yet here you are voicing your opinions, and nobody is trying to silence you. We might not get to comment wherever and whenever we want, but that's hardly the same. GOL isn't reddit, and that's how I like it.

My comment about wanting an echo chamber was in response to your laughable comment about Liam "forcing opinions down your throat". That sounds like you only want to hear/read opinions you agree with.

The problem here is that when Liam posted this article he picked a side, rather than just making a neutral article about it

He is a journalist, journalism is not neutral.
Would you like if he's been sending the neutral "You may support Linux or you may not" to the video games editors?
I read the website because I support the view of the contributors (and I will support financially the moment I have a stable income)
I totally support Liam & co on this issue. GOL is their home, free speech don't mean you can go on other peoples home to say rude things. If they want to close comment on an article because there are risk of a flame war who will cost them a few hours of their time to moderate it is their right. They have a finite amount of time to give to GOL that has so many better uses.

Sounds like what you want is an echo chamber. If this is how it's going to be it's disappointing, after all the site is called gamingonlinux not gamingontheleft. If this site really is starting to turn into an echo chamber of far left political ideologies like most game journalist sites; then that would be quite frustrating for probably a good half of linux gamers who frequent this site. Possibly more.

"Far left" my ass. Maybe by US standards. Since when is respect only for leftists? Because that's basically the only thing Liam demands of us.

I mean there's not much we can do about it if that's what Liam wants, but a linux gaming site that only represents the small portion of linux gamers that lean to the far left

How small is this portion exactly? Just curious, as you seem to have the numbers. So far I don't see any evidence that you represent a majority.

You can be selectively neutral about some things. Being neutral about something doesn't mean you have to become some kind of buddha.

You're asking him to be neutral about anything that you consider political. In effect anything that actually matters.

Again, I've said all I care to on the topic now. I've put my own points across, as have others.

If I may say one thing of your moderation decisions:

I would let my young children read Gaming on Linux.

Please keep up the excellent work.

Asking us to never close comments is asking us to allow GOL to turn into a hell-hole though. We are moderated, always have been and always will. We have to take a stand somewhere and we can't please everyone, all of the time ...[snip]... As long as people remain respectful this forum topic can stay open to have a productive chat about it. Believe me, I want to have the best community possible.

A pointless thread and the perfect answer in post 2. I only read page 1.

Not reading the thread and not taking part in this poll without reasonable options:
Please, Liam, continue as you did, you're doing a good job in difficult situations (and all this in your spare time). Thank you.

Not reading the thread and not taking part in this poll without reasonable options:
Please, Liam, continue as you did, you're doing a good job in difficult situations (and all this in your spare time). Thank you.

Just a small correction, GOL is a full-time operation. It's only in spare time once it passes 3:30PM on week days and weekends ;)