Latest 30 Comments

Quoting: FIGBirdThis means I need to review and verify the results and in many cases writing the code from scratch would just be faster.

I am experiencing the same thing in translation. A lot of companies are now paying people to review and edit machine translations rather than come up with their own translations. Supposedly this saves time, and more importantly it pays a lot less. But I have to spend so much time, and be so laser-focused on making sure that the LLM didn’t use false cognates, or slightly misinterpret a phrase, or switch pronouns mid-paragraph, or start using a different word to translate a recurring term, or use the wrong punctuation, or mess up the formatting… It would be so much easier to make my own translation and trust that I obviously would use consistent terminology, obviously not forget what pronoun or punctuation to use, etc., and only need to review my text for typos and stylistic tweaks. The speed gain ends up being negligible, and comes at the price of creativity, originality and doing work I actually enjoy instead of painstakingly fixing the mistakes of an algorithm.

Quoting: FIGBirdIt is this reasoning that I also state to my peers that it's okay to generate code, but you must also take the time to review and understand how it works before implementing it.

I will admit I don’t always do that, but I agree it must be done. With ChatGPT and the likes, though, it hasn’t been an issue: the coding answers it gives me never work as-is and only serve to remind me of certain functions or methods that could be useful to solve my problem (or introduce me to them, since I’m only an amateur programmer). Then I go look them up in actual documentation or SO and come up with my own implementation.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Firstly, I also agree that disclosures are important. As others have said it is not just that the tools were used, but also how. I do not need to rehash those statements, so I won't.

Instead, I want to push back on some of the sentiment and talk to the topic of productivity. This idea that we should just bend over for the inevitable is a really sad mindset and reflects too well the pitfalls of the modern world. The reality here is that Tim made that comment to get people fighting with each other instead. Better the population fight about disclosure than the real issues at hand.

I work in Enterprise Software actively producing code, so I wanted to talk about that side of stuff. I am glad that a study was cited here, I will be interested to see how well my rough assessment of reality lines up with their findings. What I mean here is that I do not understand how a person could consider generating complex code from one of these models more productive. Furthermore, it cuts out the part of the process where you learn and grow and is a major issue in code development. I cannot speak on drawing or painting, but I am going to assume the same rings true there.

To break down what I am saying a bit further let's start with the productivity side of things. Integrated Development Environments (IDE)s have been generating code for a long time. However, the ways that they do so are usually finishing lines or generating common methods. I use these features regularly because typing "return true" as "re" pressing enter, then "t" enter is a productivity gain. The keystroke count goes down, but I can, at a glance, see it does what I need it to. I might also generate the shell of a unit test class which is basically a whole bunch of methods that I can then go through and fill out. Same with basic getters and setters which are the methods that manipulate object variables. The point is, I do not need to write "public String getName()" for every instance I have a string variable called name, and I can validate that "return this.name" is what I need in an instant.

There are a whole lot of powerful tools in IDEs that speed up development and produce faster and better code as you get more and more familiar with using them. So, then, why would I disagree that generative AI would produce faster/better code? Well the answer is that the more complex the code being generated gets the less likely I am to catch where it isn't doing what I want it to at a glance. "return true" is very easy to verify in an instant, where a full logical loop with multiple return values is not. This means I need to review and verify the results and in many cases writing the code from scratch would just be faster.

This is also just the first part of the process because as you iterate over that bit of code and implement it there is a lot of value in understanding how it works. This is part of why code readability is such a huge part of working with a team. So, if I generate some code and find it does not work later, I have to spend time breaking the generated code down ever further before I can write the fix. If I had written that code myself I would have an intrinsic understanding as I had to reason out the logic to do so. My point being that the actual process of writing the code is a very important part of making quality software and directly translates to productivity and speed within a code base.

The second point I made is that by skipping the steps where you write the code you lose valuable understanding and is a problem in general in the development space. I run into people regularly that do not understand the code they produce. This may be from looking it up and blindly copying a stack overflow answer or, now, generating it by a process that was trained on those answers. Either case results in the same thing. They never allow questions to become answers, they just have results. I have said for a long time that my biggest issue with maths classes when I was growing up were that you are taught that "The answer is the only thing that mattered and those can be found at the back of the book". When I was younger I never really grasped how accurate this frustration was until I started working on code with people that simply produced results.

You see, the sentiment I felt was that the process to get from 1+1=2 didn't matter, and that all you had to do was memorize what symbols did and the steps for stuff like long division. However this is a very flawed way to look at maths because what actually matters is understanding WHY 1+1=2 and how that process works. Having a rich understanding of why allows you to apply the concepts in broader and more complex ways and leads to building a basis for mastery.

AI models that produce code remove the understanding part of coding and in a way do so worse than having to adjust an answer to fit your specific use case. I have always said that its okay to look up how to do something and even encouraged doing so, but I also always say "but it is extremely important that you do not use that answer until you actually understand why it solves the problem". Asking questions and understanding answers is a fundamental skill that needs to be practiced to maintain and these tools cut that process out. Meaning if they are productive now, they will be less so later as the user relies more on the magic answer box and less on their understanding and skill.

It is this reasoning that I also state to my peers that it's okay to generate code, but you must also take the time to review and understand how it works before implementing it. Using these tools "correctly" in that light means an active reduction of productivity since you have to spend that extra effort to gain what you would have by puzzling it out and implementing it yourself.

The technology behind these things *is* very powerful and *does* have value, but not in creative spaces (and I do consider coding to be creative). A creative field requires understanding and technique, neither things generative AI can do, and worse using them actively robs the creator of skills they should be developing.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Fuck Tim Swine!

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Since AI is so reliable and transformative, let's use it to detect said games with it and label it automagically for the devs and publishers that didn't think it was important enough to disclose it themselves. Also, it should automatically discount said games by 50% to encourage devs and publishers to disclose it up front.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

While you think AI will make you more productive, in fact you are less so.

Vibe coding does benefit one class of programmer — contractors brought in to fix what the vibe coders screwed up.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: dpanterYou might be interested in Siduction then.

What would you (personally) say is a strength of going for Siduction over normal sid?

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: EikeWorks For Me(TM) on KDE 6 on Debian stable, and worked on KDE 5 on Bookworm already. I'm using Nvidia BTW.

Yeah, it's frustrating. For a long time I thought it was a cable issue, but then Plasma 6 dropped for Siduction, and suddenly I was on a wayland session and boom - everything unlocked, like magic. I'm on an AMD 7900XTX, so for a while I thought it was a limitation with HDMI (AMD haven't licensed HDMI 2.1 for the mesa driver), but I've researched it, and 2.0 is more than capable, as is the DisplayPort cable I tried too. It's a top-end monitor I'm using too, so doubly frustrating!

But great to see it all "exposed" under wayland, so no going back for me now. Being able to control the brightness of my screen using the Plasma widget is amazing too - until now I had to manually control brightness using the monitor's shitty remote control! So much more convenient this way!

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: Nezchan"AI" infested game, uses chatbots for NPC dialogue and other AI for character generation. Some reports of generated character voices.

The three people in valve’s review cubicle need to stop blocking games that they personally dislike (see the HORSES controversy) and start enforcing AI disclosures with the same stubbornness.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

It's good that he clarifies that game stores need an AI label. Or are there people that don't read what he writes and turn everything into the opposite?

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: scaineUnder X11, I only get the option for 60Hz. This is across three distros (Pop_OS, Endeavour and Siduction), so it must be a hardware limitation of some kind.

Works For Me(TM) on KDE 6 on Debian stable, and worked on KDE 5 on Bookworm already. I'm using Nvidia BTW.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: tuubi

Quoting: scaineBut I wouldn't go back to X11 because a) no 120Hz support

Wayland definitely is the way to go, but what do you mean no 120Hz? I'm running an Xfce (X11) desktop at 120Hz right now, on AMD hardware similar to yours. Is that some weird KDE limitation on X11?

In any case, there are real (and compelling) reasons to migrate to Wayland, like HDR. No need to come up with imaginary ones.

Under X11, I only get the option for 60Hz. This is across three distros (Pop_OS, Endeavour and Siduction), so it must be a hardware limitation of some kind.

Launching a Wayland session immediately unlocks 120Hz, along with HDR, colour profiles, brightness settings, etc.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: Technopeasant@scaine
Why is code generation trivial while "art, music and voice acting" is inherantly important?

Sorry, I wasn't clear. It's just as important. I just don't think that anyone other than the FSF would have the motivation to bring a case against the AI companies for code. It's also, as Kimyrielle points out, really hard to prove that AI was used in any given sample of code. It should still be disclosed, imo. It's still burning the planet and (probably) affecting jobs due to short-sighted, or over-optmistic managers.

Quoting: KimyrielleThing is that these tools DO make you more productive, if you're using them right (which is why they're getting adopted by coders).

As I said, this is currently not the case. I'm sure there will be further studies on this, but right now, this study from July this year points to the opposite. While you think AI will make you more productive, in fact you are less so. It's a really interesting read.

https://metr.org/blog/2025-07-10-early-2025-ai-experienced-os-dev-study/

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: ArehandoroIf a game uses AI models that have been trained on material without the content of their authors (Spoiler, all of them) I consider that game to be built illegally, and as such, I will obtain it and play it via "illegal" methods.

That is one of the dumber excuses for piracy I've come across. If a game uses generative AI, but you still want to play it, then pay your money and play it legally. Otherwise, stand on principle and don't play it at all.

In truth, in most cases, I won't want to play it, but in the cases that I do if I can harm the business more from playing the game without paying, I will do so. Whether it's dumb or not.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: MayeulCThe irony. An AI tag being relevant for art exhibits, but not videogames? Are videogames not art, then? It is telling how Tim thinks about games. But then, id software games do not have a particularly high artistic value (subjectively, of course).

Just FYI: Sweeney is the Epic / Unreal guy, not ID.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

The irony. An AI tag being relevant for art exhibits, but not videogames? Are videogames not art, then? It is telling how Tim thinks about games. But then, id software epic games do not have a particularly high artistic value (subjectively, of course).

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

But I wouldn't go back to X11 because a) no 120Hz support

Wayland definitely is the way to go, but what do you mean no 120Hz? I'm running an Xfce (X11) desktop at 120Hz right now, on AMD hardware similar to yours. Is that some weird KDE limitation on X11?

Wondering the same. I'm running KDE with 144 Hz on X11.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

@Kimyrielle your mention of "contains nuts" is actually spot-on, but not for the reason you intended. The law requires disclosing traces of allergens precisely because they can be found in products where we don't normally expect them. And behold, they are literally everywhere. Go to a shop and try to find a product that doesn't contain "traces of" something else entirely. It's the same with AI. We expect that the game was created by the developer listed on the storefront, but it turns out it contains "traces of" generative AI in coding, art, music etc. etc. Should we stop listing allergens and ai-lergens just because they are so prevalent? I don't think so.

You could argue that there's a difference, because they allergens are listed for health reasons, but it's much more than that. They allow the customer to make an informed decision on which product they will spend their money. I am not allergic to anything, but I avoid certain products for ethical reasons, so I'm also a - maybe unintended - beneficiary of that law. Besides, maybe it's a tad to early to authoritatively proclaim that using AI in games has no negative effects for our health...

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: enigmaxg2The memory leak issue with slideshow wallpapers on Nvidia is still a thing,

I do use slideshow feature for background wallpaper on my 4090 and never noticed this. Is it with plasmashell process growing infinitely in memory usage? I'll have to keep a eye on things.

Honestly I don't get that many issues now with Wayland, but it seems some people find it unusable which is interesting. Makes you wonder how their systems are setup, perhaps broken packages or configuration.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

I would like a label but also a definition on what parts of game are AI generated.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

The winds meet between my cheeks. 💨

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

I swear that he's just trolling to fuck with people at this point. I miss Cliffy B Epic Games.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

💊💀⚰️

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Looking forward to MARROW Chapter Two and the new episode of Death Wish... to play in BuildGDX...

And not to be rude, but having also listened to their Jace Hall interview the Nightdive interviewer clearly does no background research on any of his subjects.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

@AsciiWolf

There is an experimental Yamagi Quake II build that aims to be compatible with the Remaster data.

https://github.com/yquake2/yquake2remaster

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Given that people seem to fall into two camps good or bad on it, I do personally think promoting some form of AI-free certification might well get more people what they want.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

People can say close to 100% of companies are/will be using AI for coding, but what they mean is "some kind of clump in my immediate view are all doing it". I don't think anyone actually knows how prevalent or otherwise it really is.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: CloversheenSeveral people including our own good man Liam tried to be professional and constructive, but were told to shut it.

I don't know that I'd characterize what was said as "shut it," I think at worst it was tone policing rather than an attempt to silence criticism. Other members of the Fedora community called out that moderator in both that post and others concerning the issue.

To give my two-cents of a couple years using Fedora, this was atypical as was the buggy Fedora 43 launch. This update cycle has been a little rocky, but as they've otherwise been rock solid in my personal experience, I'm more willing to give the benefit of the doubt unless this becomes more of a pattern.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: Kimyrielle@Ehvis, the point being made by Sweeney (which I have to agree with him on, even when it pains me to have to take his side) is that it's utterly pointless to require labeling, if close to 100% of all games are using the tech anyway. That's like requiring a "contains nuts" label on a pack of peanuts. Sure, you can do that. It just doesn't make any sense.

The labelling is not just about the "if". It's about the "how".

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

@Ehvis, the point being made by Sweeney (which I have to agree with him on, even when it pains me to have to take his side) is that it's utterly pointless to require labeling, if close to 100% of all games are using the tech anyway. That's like requiring a "contains nuts" label on a pack of peanuts. Sure, you can do that. It just doesn't make any sense.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment

Quoting: KimyrielleIt's not just the indies that use AI coding tools. I guess they're actually slower with adopting these than the big studios, where the managers jumped out of their seats when somebody pointed at ChatGPT and said "productivity gains here!!!".
Thing is that these tools DO make you more productive, if you're using them right (which is why they're getting adopted by coders). Some less-than-competent managers thought they can fully replace SWE jobs though, and they just can't. Also, the productivity increase isn't 1000%, or whatever these clowns said it would be. But 10% is probably realistic. You save a lot of time by just not having to ask/look around StackExchange a lot anymore, and by letting the AI code some standard problems for you.

What I personally don't get is some people saying "Yeah...I guess AI is fine for coding, but it can't EVER be allowed to do art!!!" I am not sure I understand the difference. I am pretty sure there are several ten thousand lines of my code in all of the larger models. At least I would be insulted if they hadn't gobbled up my stuff from GitHub while they gobbled up everyone else's. And no, I didn't get asked, either. It's really the same thing as using images or songs. The irony is that as far as I can tell, as of today a lot more coders lost their job over AI than artists. People just don't defend coders with the same vigor. ;)

Just because they *can* be used right, doesn't mean that they are. So let them disclose it. Disclosure are always good for the consumer. But those people advocating to hide that must have something to hide.

View this comment - View article - View full comments - Report this comment