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liamdawe: You seem to forget that Microsoft has vendor locked the PC market for over 10 years. So people complaining just don't know any better. How can Id have stayed ahead for nearly 20 years using OpenGL if it was so bad? Why does this guy not complain about console development -> why do consoles still use OpenGL if it was so bad?

So in short, so many people can be wrong.

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Ah missed that part, sorry... So maybe only the ascii version will remain free? Or maybe by ADOM Classic they mean 1.1.1? Now I'm confused as well. ;-) Also I wonder what it is going to be priced on Steam, since they only promised the keys to backers who pledged $40+ :o

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I got a bit confused by the language on their site.

QuoteThe next pre-releases (Prerelease 24 and above) will only be available to people who pledged at least $25 in the ADOM resurrection campaign.

So, it seems this version will forever remain free yes, but future ones are not.

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I played the hell out of ADOM back in the nineties, on my Amiga. Only ascii version was available back then, but it didn't matter a bit. For me it was better than nethack, angband and quite a few others.

As per docs/readme1st.txt contained in the archive, the game still is Postcardware. I sent my postcard some 15 years ago, so my licence should still be valid. ;-) I'm not sure why you are afraid of the downloads to disappear, on the indiegogo page they explicitly say that ADOM will stay free and only the Deluxe version that goes to Steam will be paid:

"ADOM Deluxe will include new challenge games, restorable save files and an extended character generation process allowing you to select from more options. ADOM Classic still will remain free"

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Taking a look doesn't necessarily mean I've come to a conclusion on it all yet, it's just highlighting it.

Edit > That said I've added a final bit.

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It's a pity after saying "... we check it out to see if it's any good" you don't actually tell us if it's any good. Was it fun to play? Did the learning curve on the interface negatively impact your experience? Is having all that reading to do a good or bad thing?

There's really very little to go on there. So...is it any good?

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Wow man.... Megaman is the King of the side scrolling games!!!

Try ZSnes and try Megaman (0 to 9, and X to X3 series).

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a industry without AMD would be quite horrifying
i understand that you guys, from a linux user standpoint, steer away from amd
but from a morality standpoint AMD is the better company out there, by far

just look at their technologies, most amd-technologies are pretty open, and their open-source drivers for linux outperform nvidia's,
amd actually contributes to them, while nvidia's open-source drivers are almost entirely made by the linux comunity,
the first time nvidia contributed to the open source nouveau drivers was a few months ago (source http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/87166-nvidia-eyes-open-source-support-for-k1-graphics)

also if you look from a non linux user standpoint, cuda, physx, gameworks, gsync, are all proprietary and only work on nvidia, physx also works on cpu, but is purposely bricked on it(uses outdated cpu-instructions source http://techreport.com/news/19216/physx-hobbled-on-the-cpu-by-x87-code)

compared to bullet physics, which is open source,freesync, which amd actually pushed as a standard and tressFX, which works on both nvidia and amd, and doesn't suffer on nvidia hardware even though it's amd's technology
nvidia is purposely implementing stuff that run worse on amd harware, just look up 'arkham origins tesselation wireframe' which they implemented in that game since tesselation is amd's main weakness, the ammounts used is beyond reasonable ammounts

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Didn't read all the answer from the Timothy Lottes because it looks highly technical but I got the feeling that we have a former guy from AMD that says the car is broken because there's no fuel in the tank...

Just my impressions... :)

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Quoting: FTW

Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.

I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about, I mean, Intel isn't exactly a beast when it comes to graphics cards.

I say vote with your wallet, don't buy AMD for Linux systems, if the Steam machines kick off they might see that they are loosing some market.

That is the thing, though. I vote with my wallet, and the company I want to vote for is AMD because AMD is the only company to offer an ever improving, gaming capable, open source driver.

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Quoting: FTW

Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.

I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about

You're not being clear here. Are you saying you WANT them to go out of business because Nvidia have nothing to worry about or are you talking about it being an issue due to lack of competition and Nvidia have nothing to worry about.

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OpenGL is not consistent because the drivers are not consistent. Fix the driver issues and you fix most of the problems with OpenGL.

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I think that the discussion is good for Linux and OpenGL. I don't think that OpenGL is broken per se (but I am just a dabbler), I think it just didn't see that much love.

For years there was practically no interest in OpenGL & Linux games, it was a second/third class citizen. And now there is a lot of traction. I will still take a couple of months, some guides, improvements of drivers, ...

Look at Mesa/Open source driver quality/speed. Phoronix has some articles, performance has increased vastly in the last 2 years.

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OpenGL is broken and different on earch platform ??
It will be difficult to have AAA games on Linux...

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If fraxis would have gotten some one from nvidia then they wouldn't have too many issues with opengl. As it stands anyone from AMD regarding OpenGL is no expert with it and AMD/ATI's track record on the horrid OpenGL drivers is proof of that. And the fact that he is promoting mantle proves that his opinion is biased towards AMD. How can anyone believe that AMD can handle their own API when they have so many issues with one that has been around for years. This is nothing but AMD's way to try and push mantle onto people and developers. Mantle is broke by design because its developed by AMD. The best thing that AMD can do is break off the graphics card division and make processors again.

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Quoting: storma

Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.

Agreed, The Nvidia open source drivers are heaps better.

Oh, please let this be sarcasm. :'(

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Quoting: Anonymousamd sucks. I hope they go out of business. I really do.

I agree with others, if they go out of bussiness, Nvidia has nothing to worry about, I mean, Intel isn't exactly a beast when it comes to graphics cards.

I say vote with your wallet, don't buy AMD for Linux systems, if the Steam machines kick off they might see that they are loosing some market.

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Have noted that reply in the article!

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I think after reading it a bit that this guy probably knows a lot about DX but less about advanced OGL.
Timothy Lottes has already corrected some of his points:

http://timothylottes.blogspot.com.es/2014/05/re-joshua-barczaks-opengl-is-broken.html

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: sgtGarciaThimothy Lottes responds:
Your text to link here...

Who is that guy exactly? I've seen someone link to him before, but no idea who he is.

Seems like he work at Epic Games : http://schedule.gdconf.com/speaker/lottes-timothy.19788

And Epic Games are an important member of the Khronos Group (as important as NVIDIA and AMD).

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Quoting: Silviu@liam dude, serisouly? Google him and find out who he is... (hint: works for Epic)

Seriously what? There's multiple Timothy Lottes who come up in google and the blog doesn't state exactly who he is.

Don't make stupid "google him" comments.

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People always complain about AMD's proprietary driver but those same people who complain don't ever seem to talk about AMD's open source driver, almost as if it does not exist to them. These folks do know that AMD offers 2 drivers and that if the proprietary driver doesn't do it for them, they should first try the open source driver before flipping out and switching to Nvidia, right?

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I see a LOT of complaining and little done in order to fix what's broken. These guys work (or used to work) for companies directly involved in Khronos. All it takes is for those companies to show interest and steer OpenGL where it needs to be headed instead of taking the lazy way of waiting on Microsoft and others to implement X technology.

@liam dude, serisouly? Google him and find out who he is... (hint: works for Epic)

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Quoting: liamdaweWho is that guy exactly? I've seen someone link to him before, but no idea who he is.

He worked at Nvidia for some time if I remember correctly.

EDIT:

He worked @ Nvidia but now He is working @ Epic Games

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Quoting: sgtGarciaThimothy Lottes responds:
Your text to link here...

Who is that guy exactly? I've seen someone link to him before, but no idea who he is.

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Thimothy Lottes responds:
Timothy Lottes blogspot

P.S.
We have to remember that OpenGL for many years was treated like 3rd world citizen.

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ATI/AMD drivers have always performed badly. I remember the happy day when they released their first linux driver, but I soon realized that they really didn't care about linux and switched to nvidia. Though they have made some progress. Now days you can actually install the driver and it works with out the community having to patch it first.

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Note that this so called NVidia performance (in absolutely artificial benchmarks, not actual games) is only achieved by having a tumor of privative code running kernelside.

I say no thanks, my AMD card runs all my Steam Linux games just fine with Mesa3d.

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you never played megaman ?

maybe you should hit up znes and try megaman X for a few bosses :D

so looking forward for this new successor to come to linux :)

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It's also available at the Humble Store which seems to include a DRM-free version, but don't get fooled as I did! There are only DRM-free versions for Windows and Mac, not for Linux! I contacted the HB support team to no avail until now (I should've gone straight to the developers, I guess...)

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