Latest 30 Comments

Slight addition to the article below the last quote, to note the key changes from 2023.

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Quoting: Cley_FayeCensorship is censorship, no matter how some people think they have the high ground.
Disturbing content in fictional media should not be regulated the same way we protect actual people, because those "in power" that decides where the line lays will change, and their decision is extremely dubious. I'm more annoyed by extreme violence, gore, and torture than nudity, but it seems that only the later is deemed horrible enough to warrant censorship.

As long as it's all fictional content, let it exist. If it can't find its public, then it will fail. But I am the one making the decision, not some random bureaucrat/employee somewhere. This kind of issue keeps happening repeatedly, and keep coming from countries that are usually against "nanny states", but quick to accept it when a boob is visible. The hypocrisy of it is stupid.

Hard disagree on this from me. Valve is a private company and isn't beholden to our views on right and wrong. There's a big distinction between government oversight (aka regulation) and a private company not wanting to host things it doesn't like. It has it's own reputation to consider, by association to the content it sells. Sure, that's a low bar for Valve, but it's their decision.

This reminds me of that ridiculous situation where a gay activist asked a bakery for a "support gay marriage" cake and the bakery refused. And the gay activist got up in arms about this, and it went to court! Madness. Sure, the bakery are bigoted scum, but they're a private firm, and they get to be bigoted about the cakes they sell. Thankfully the [courts agreed](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59882444). But in summary, if I was selling pizzas and someone came in asked me to make a pizza in the shape of (insert something offensive here), I'd throw them the fuck out of my pizza parlour. My house, my rules.

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Quoting: amataiIf I understand the situation correctly, their game got rejected not because it was disturbing (that is non issue for Steam) but because of illegal content.
Either it is in good faith, and they should apologize, either it is a marketing stunt and the press, GoL included, should not play along uncritically, [edit: no offence intended. I don't want to be rude, of course Liam is king on how is media is run].

They did "apologize" in a sense; they amended the scene so that it contained no children. But Valve refused to reevaluate the game.

The thing is, assuming the scene is the same as it was in that build submitted to Steam except the character in question was a child, it still wouldn't be illegal or CSAM or whatever. The game is very overtly making a point about how regressive views of sex are often instilled by parents and institutions to the overall detriment of everyone. There's nothing inherently sexual about that scene whether the character exists as an adult or a child.

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Quoting: scaineAs noted in the article itself, it's the devs themselves that bemoan that this change prevents them from putting their older games in a bundle.

Yeah, but why lie about this? The change happened almost 3 years ago. If they can't be straight about this... why should anybody trust them?

If their previous game Saturnalia had sold well, I'm pretty sure that they would be able to generate more keys. The game had a peak of 15 players 1.5 years ago. It's got 80 reviews on Steam. It apparently didn't sell well... so why should they be able to continue generating keys? You can still buy some keys online, so at some point they must have been able to generate keys.

It's not a negotiation, but bigger devs suffer from a smaller cut.

Here's the breakdown I took from a Reddit thread, so I admit I haven't verified this, but I have no reason to doubt it.

Yes... and that's known for years. I'm just wondering where Pete is getting the "developers can negotiate the cut" from. I'm not aware that anybody can negotiate that. Everybody has to earn it.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: Petethegoatthey are not good for developers in the same way they are good for consumers - especially smaller developers who do not get to negotiate down the 30% cut.

Which developers get to negoatiate the cut?!

None. To my knowledge, the only way to bring the cut down is to reach revenue thresholds: 10M$ lowers a game's cut to 25%, and 50M$ lowers it to 20%.

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Quoting: EhvisDisadvantage is that the quality can be a bit "meh" sometimes.

After going through two G305 and a G903 mice in a little over three years, and a G Pro keyboard that had a switch die and keycaps wear through in a short time, I have sworn off Logitech peripherals. My G29 driving wheel is still working well, but that may be a matter of just not using it much rather than the quality of the device.

Just bought an 8BitDo Retro R8 mouse which is nice and clicky with lots of connection methods, but man is it not made for medium to large hands. Not the most ergonomic, so I'm back to using $15 USD wired Glorious mouse. Otherwise, I'm 100% all in on 8BitDo with three of their controllers and their C64 inspired keyboard.

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You are correct @tuubi - it's not a spiritual steamworld dig 3 ... more factory building and resource gathering. But it still is fun as you said! I've definitely wishlisted it and could be a really fun chill Deck game.

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Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: Petethegoat

Quoting: kuhpunktAnd they have RECENTLY begun refusing keys? That change happened almost 3 years ago. It just comes across as disingenuous.

wanting to put their previous game in a bundle does not seem disingenuous.

I didn't say anything about wanting to put their game in a bundle. I just talked about the change... 3 years ago isn't recent.

As noted in the article itself, it's the devs themselves that bemoan that this change prevents them from putting their older games in a bundle.

Quoting: kuhpunkt

Quoting: Petethegoatthey are not good for developers in the same way they are good for consumers - especially smaller developers who do not get to negotiate down the 30% cut.

Which developers get to negoatiate the cut?!

It's not a negotiation, but bigger devs suffer from a smaller cut.

Here's the breakdown I took from a Reddit thread, so I admit I haven't verified this, but I have no reason to doubt it.

Valve's revenue share ceased being a flat 30% revenue share arrangement in 2018. Valve's cut is now:
30% of the first $10million revenue.
25% after $10million of revenue until $50million revenue.
20% on all revenue above $50million.

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Censorship is censorship, no matter how some people think they have the high ground.
Disturbing content in fictional media should not be regulated the same way we protect actual people, because those "in power" that decides where the line lays will change, and their decision is extremely dubious. I'm more annoyed by extreme violence, gore, and torture than nudity, but it seems that only the later is deemed horrible enough to warrant censorship.

As long as it's all fictional content, let it exist. If it can't find its public, then it will fail. But I am the one making the decision, not some random bureaucrat/employee somewhere. This kind of issue keeps happening repeatedly, and keep coming from countries that are usually against "nanny states", but quick to accept it when a boob is visible. The hypocrisy of it is stupid.

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Quoting: Petethegoat

Quoting: kuhpunktAnd they have RECENTLY begun refusing keys? That change happened almost 3 years ago. It just comes across as disingenuous.

wanting to put their previous game in a bundle does not seem disingenuous.

I didn't say anything about wanting to put their game in a bundle. I just talked about the change... 3 years ago isn't recent. It's the same with their earliest statements where they feigned ignorance and people only got to hear their side. The banner on their website doesn't help them either - it's just antagonizing Valve - so why would they even consider changing their stance?

Quoting: Petethegoatsome developers can still get steam keys for other stores and bundle purposes, clearly, so when the language was changed doesn't seem super relevant.

It's not "some" - it's everybody who is in good standing, following the guidelines and not abusing the system.

Quoting: Petethegoatit provides SOME value to developers. does it provide enough for the 30% cut valve take? maybe, but i don't think it's at all unreasonable to criticise them.

Of course they can/should be criticized - when there's a good reason to. Just in this case here... what incentive would Valve have to NOT sell the game? Why would they care? It would make them money - so they must have had a pretty good reason to reject the game.

This is what Valve said:

"This happens sometimes if content on the store page causes concern that the game itself might not fall within our guidelines. After our team played through the build and reviewed the content, we gave the developer feedback about why we couldn’t ship the game on Steam, consistent with our onboarding rules and guidelines. A short while later the developer asked us to reconsider the review, and our internal content review team discussed that extensively and communicated to the developer our final decision that we were not going to ship the game on Steam."

Quoting: Petethegoatthey are not good for developers in the same way they are good for consumers - especially smaller developers who do not get to negotiate down the 30% cut.

Which developers get to negoatiate the cut?!

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Quoting: kuhpunktAnd they have RECENTLY begun refusing keys? That change happened almost 3 years ago. It just comes across as disingenuous.

wanting to put their previous game in a bundle does not seem disingenuous. some developers can still get steam keys for other stores and bundle purposes, clearly, so when the language was changed doesn't seem super relevant.

i think steam is incredibly good for consumers in many ways - refund policy, proton, steam input, recording. it's a really good platform and it's obvious why many people (including myself!) aren't overly upset about consolidating their entire library on it.

it provides SOME value to developers. does it provide enough for the 30% cut valve take? maybe, but i don't think it's at all unreasonable to criticise them. they are not good for developers in the same way they are good for consumers - especially smaller developers who do not get to negotiate down the 30% cut.

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Man alive. I built this pc I'm typing on like maybe 6 months ago, HOW LUCKY I FEEL RIGHT NOW ... !! Sure the gpu prices were/still are insane, but at least ram was still dirt cheap. WTF is this garbage I'm looking at right now ... $400 for a 32g kit? WHAT.

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Quoting: JarmerOMG could this possibly be the steamworld dig 3 we have never gotten? COULD IT BE? trying the demo now

Based on the trailer, I think the answer to that is probably "no". This is quite different. No platforming, no combat, no NPCs or story as far as I can see. Although the highlight list does hint at some lore to be found.

Still, could be fun.

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I don't think it's a problem, but what does it say about the developer? In a week this whole thing is forgotten... then what do they have left?

And their communication wasn't great either. Statement like this...

Steam has recently begun refusing to grant developers keys for their own games. In the absence of clear rules or guidance, Valve led developers for years to believe they could request keys as needed, building communities and businesses outside Steam while still creating value for Steam users. It now withholds keys from indie developers who do not meet undisclosed sales thresholds.

...don't help. Depicting Valve as the bad buys who don't let devs like them abuse the system. And they have RECENTLY begun refusing keys? That change happened almost 3 years ago. It just comes across as disingenuous.

https://newsletter.gamediscover.co/p/valves-new-stance-on-steam-keys-what

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OMG could this possibly be the steamworld dig 3 we have never gotten? COULD IT BE? trying the demo now

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It feels great when you get a mouse / keeb you really like and keep using it for years. I've been a huge fan of the pulsar xlite series for what feels like forever (ergo right hand shape) and I think I've been using this particular one for several years now.

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Well if developing games is your livelihood and your game gets banned, of course you are going to lean hard into it. You want the money to live.

So yes they're seeking attention, it's all marketing - but what else are they supposed to do? I really don't get the issue or why anyone sees it as a problem.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: kuhpunktThose devs sure love the attention.

What an odd thing to say. Of course they want attention, every developer wants attention. And they're drawing attention to a problem of the biggest PC store there is (and Epic...) refusing their game.

Sure, but I think there is attention and "attention" - and all of this (like the banner on their homepage) just looks like it's shock value for the sake of itself. It's like "Too hot for TV." Because that's all it has going for it. If they hadn't been refused by Valve, I doubt most people would ever care about it. That's something I don't like.

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Because I already have them, here's a key for Kathy Rain Directors Cut:

2RAWR-W7LZW-PDYGC

And for Regions of Ruin:

PZANR-EJ8BA-I0TWE

(With apologies to Liam if I'm not supposed to put these here)

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Can't they sue that former "dear friend" for damages or something?

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ElectricPrism☑ Removable Batteries on Laptops and Phones

Not true. Have it in my phone I bought this year.

Quoting: ElectricPrism☑ Removable MicroSD Storage on Phones

Not true. Have it in my phone I bought this year.

I'm not quite as inclined to a Total Doom prediction as ElectricPrism, but those two points up there specifically are at least extremely strong trends over the past, I dunno, five years or so? Sure, are are phones available with removeable batteries and MicroSD cards, but those have been becoming increasingly rare. I'm hoping the zeitgeist will turn back around eventually re: MicroSD in particular, but even brands and product lines which have historically been really good about that kind of stuff have ended up dropping it on their more recent models. Saying that features like that are entirely "gone" is probably overstating things slightly, but I know that my own phone selection pool has drastically shrunk since ten years ago.

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If I understand the situation correctly, their game got rejected not because it was disturbing (that is non issue for Steam) but because of illegal content.
Either it is in good faith, and they should apologize, either it is a marketing stunt and the press, GoL included, should not play along uncritically, [edit: no offence intended. I don't want to be rude, of course Liam is king on how is media is run].

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Quoting: kuhpunktThose devs sure love the attention.

What an odd thing to say. Of course they want attention, every developer wants attention. And they're drawing attention to a problem of the biggest PC store there is (and Epic...) refusing their game.

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Those devs sure love the attention.

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Quoting: Petethegoatnot singling you out, but there's been lots of misunderstanding of the content.

the game features censored (pixellated) adult male and female nudity. there's slavery, sexual violence, and a good bit of other nasty stuff. (there's a more thorough content warning on the store pages and when you start up the game)

according to their FAQ, the early build rejected by steam had a scene where a (clothed) girl rode one of the nude horse-slaves, as you would a horse. the final game does not have any children in it.

while it's true that steam or any store does not legally have to host every game, it's worth remembering that steam does host the entire "sex with hitler" franchise, and epic will explicitly make exceptions to allow AO rated games if they feature blockchain/NFTs. :)

I don't feel called out. Thank you for the consideration though.

I did see the mention of the earlier builds and the sexual nature of the game. I agree it's an aggressive game with really dark/disturbing themes - I think you and I are on the same page. It's no worse than so many others titles they are happy to carry. Their rejection feels performative.

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So my source was the faq then. Steam reject the game not because they were unwiling to distribute it. Steam bas a jokingly low bar of entry. But because they were not allowed to do it in most country ( all of them except Japan I guess). So the initial rejection is unsurprising.
The only point is the rejection of the appeal once the illegal scene was removed but I sympathise with Steam not allowing appeal in such case.

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As much as I like Valve for their investment in FOSS, things like this push me back to GOG. I understand they're a business and sometimes they make decisions based on what they think a portion of their customer base with different values than mine expect, and sometimes they make decisions based on pressure from more powerful entities (payment processors, my arch nemeses); but while I understand it, I don't like it and I'm gonna complain and vote with my wallet.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ElectricPrism☑ Optical CD/DVD/HD/BluRay Drive on Laptops
☑ Ethernet Port in many cases gone necessitating USB-C Hub
☑ Anything outside a single USB-C

Not true. Have it in my laptop I bought this year.

Oh, you bought a notebook with an ODD this year? Regardless of ElectricPrism predictions those *are* becoming more and more scarce and harder to find. Did you bought it for gaming or office work? Was it good? Can you please tell the model?

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@Eike do you have a fairphone?

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Quoting: simplysevenI read their post, and it seems like there is a scene in the game which depicts a young lady being led around as if she were a horse while she is naked. That sounds pretty dark and terrible, with depictions of abusive and coercive behavior at the very least.

not singling you out, but there's been lots of misunderstanding of the content.

the game features censored (pixellated) adult male and female nudity. there's slavery, sexual violence, and a good bit of other nasty stuff. (there's a more thorough content warning on the store pages and when you start up the game)

according to their FAQ, the early build rejected by steam had a scene where a (clothed) girl rode one of the nude horse-slaves, as you would a horse. the final game does not have any children in it.

while it's true that steam or any store does not legally have to host every game, it's worth remembering that steam does host the entire "sex with hitler" franchise, and epic will explicitly make exceptions to allow AO rated games if they feature blockchain/NFTs. :)

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