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Quoting: scainePure greed. Plain and simple. Just a bunch of copyright trolls.

Why be paid for our music once when we can bully storefronts to be paid for the exact same effort multiple times!?

Exactly. It goes beyond storefronts too. These organizations are bureaucratic parasites that unfortunately have been legally sanctioned to do this (at least, in Canada, they have).

I used to sit on a civil government board that oversaw a community hall. Our manager brought to us a demand that the facility pay a fee to cover music played or performed in the facility. This was the first I'd ever heard of such a thing.

The manager investigated further and discovered that not only was there a group with their hands out for playing pre-recorded music or for live performances but there was another parasite demanding "royalties" on behalf of the composers, authors and -- of all things -- the publishers too. Their ability to collect these "royalties" is actually backed by Canadian law. Furthermore, there is some sort of connection to the World Trade Organization as well.

While trying to recall the name of the initial group that contacted us, I discovered that, in Canada, there are FOUR federally-sanctioned nonprofits with their hands in the music royalties pie. It is obscene.

Studies have shown that very little of the fees actually make it to the composers and performers of the music. IMO, it is just a parasitic scam to enable the existence of these trolls.

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Quoting: Serious_TableSo they're going to start suing every other company that used Loot boxes, right? EVERY other company that used Loot boxes, RIGHT? Or is this selective bullshit

Corporations are risk averse. This is how the game is played. You go after the biggest offender to make an example of them. Then everyone else falls in line. Not saying it's how it should be resolved, but that's the way things usually happen in the US. Ideally, we would have a congress that actually passes laws in service of the people instead of corpos. Sadly, that isn't the case, so this is what we get instead.

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LMAO Just in time for everyone to delete their Discord account.

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Quoting: syylk

Quoting: pbSteam also sells soundtracks and has a built-in music player, maybe that's what they're trying to exploit?

You have definitely a point (or two, actually).

But I guess the soundtracks *are* licensed, by the producer/publisher of the soundtrack itself. Or else, the producer/publisher could not sell it in the first place!

About the music player, yes, that's a possibility. It means that every digital music player ever (including Windows Media Player, VLC, WinAMP, etc.) should license every possible song in the remote possibility it could be used to play one?

What about other stores selling videogames - dunno, Amazon, EGS, GOG, the various app stores? They should license every song in every product they sell as well?

Should the likes of Walmart get a licence for selling physical medias (CD)?! Yea! It's still a thing.

All that stuff is pure nonsense.

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Quoting: Serious_TableSo they're going to start suing every other company that used Loot boxes, right? EVERY other company that used Loot boxes, RIGHT? Or is this selective bullshit

Laughs in Magic the Gathering.

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I definitely noticed faster startup on web

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So they're going to start suing every other company that used Loot boxes, right? EVERY other company that used Loot boxes, RIGHT? Or is this selective bullshit

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I mean, Valve knew what they were doing all this time. They had to have known they were playing with fire. They've been playing Russian roulette with this stuff, and the bullet may have finally struck. They could have and should have stopped years ago, but I have a feeling greed overruled rationality, as it usually does.

That being said, I doubt this lawsuit gets anywhere near billions. Hopefully it puts an end to this practice though. Hey, if Valve loses this revenue stream, then maybe they will be incentivized to make new games.

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Quoting: elmapulI bet epic or microsoft are behind so many companies suing valve, especially ms, they mhave more to lose.

Considering how it was MS behind SCO suing Novell and IBM over Linux, I see a pattern of proxy-suits here...

[Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group,_Inc._v._Novell,_Inc. & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_Group,_Inc._v._International_Business_Machines_Corp. ]

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Quoting: pbSteam also sells soundtracks and has a built-in music player, maybe that's what they're trying to exploit?

You have definitely a point (or two, actually).

But I guess the soundtracks *are* licensed, by the producer/publisher of the soundtrack itself. Or else, the producer/publisher could not sell it in the first place!

About the music player, yes, that's a possibility. It means that every digital music player ever (including Windows Media Player, VLC, WinAMP, etc.) should license every possible song in the remote possibility it could be used to play one?

What about other stores selling videogames - dunno, Amazon, EGS, GOG, the various app stores? They should license every song in every product they sell as well?

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Will be surprised if this doesn't get thrown out. They are trying to extort Valve.

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There is already an xml method to add options...
https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/mesa/mesa/-/merge_requests/12135/diffs?commit_id=b9129496a295f3aef7d96540556eced25961f66a

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While I don't understand the deep technical stuff, overall this sounds like a big win for pretty much everyone right? The developers, maintainers, gamers, etc...?

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Did the update and lost all my games, on the main nvme partition. I was even asked to re-login. I'm currently reinstalling my Steam Games. No problem for non Steam games like my emulation setup, though.

I was wondering what to remove... Valve solved the issue! 😄

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Quoting: Jau

Quoting: pb

Quoting: _Mars

In 2007, PRS for Music took a Scottish car servicing company to court because the employees were allegedly "listening to the radio at work, allowing the music to be 'heard by colleagues and customers'".

From the Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRS_for_Music#Legal_cases

It happened in other countries, too. My hairdresser has a plaque informing that the music is only for employees and the customers ought to abstain from listening to it. That's where it's headed...

Smart 😅
In France you pay SASEM for any public diffusion and they pay the rights owners. But you have to have a public diffusion and it's clearly defined by the law.

The Sacem is also a bunch of extortionists.

If you pay royalties directly to the rightsholders, the Sacem will still ask for its cut. And if you only broadcast royalty-free music available in the public domain or under the terms of a Creative Commons licence, then they can still ask for royalties for some goddamn reason.

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So the consensus is, this is obviously stupid. The question is, is the relevant law in Britain just as stupid? If this were some jurisdictions I'd try for a jury trial, because juries are less practiced at accepting insane things for the sake of the law. Not sure that's an available option in Britain.

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I bet epic or microsoft are behind so many companies suing valve, especially ms, they mhave more to lose.

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Quoting: pb

Quoting: _Mars

In 2007, PRS for Music took a Scottish car servicing company to court because the employees were allegedly "listening to the radio at work, allowing the music to be 'heard by colleagues and customers'".

From the Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRS_for_Music#Legal_cases

It happened in other countries, too. My hairdresser has a plaque informing that the music is only for employees and the customers ought to abstain from listening to it. That's where it's headed...

Smart 😅
In France you pay SASEM for any public diffusion and they pay the rights owners. But you have to have a public diffusion and it's clearly defined by the law.

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Quoting: Ehvis

Quoting: BloodScourgedouble-dip? 🤔

The music industry has been the front runner for double dipping for decades. And while they say it's to protect "the artists", I highly doubt that the artists would see any notable income from it.

That was a rhetorical question 😇

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Quoting: syylkBut... That music, licensed by the game devs, is not played on Steam. It's only played in the game(s) - where it's already handsomely licensed!

Valve is not letting users listen to the music besides what's already licensed within the videogame, and the users are exposed to the IP only after purchasing the game - and its musical license(s) - and paying the due to the authors, directly or indirectly.

How that claim could have merit?

You can listen to the trailers I guess.. 😑

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Quoting: BloodScourgedouble-dip? 🤔

The music industry has been the front runner for double dipping for decades. And while they say it's to protect "the artists", I highly doubt that the artists would see any notable income from it.

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Valve 1vAll they're getting a ton of XP for this.

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Quoting: syylkBut... That music, licensed by the game devs, is not played on Steam. It's only played in the game(s) - where it's already handsomely licensed!

Valve is not letting users listen to the music besides what's already licensed within the videogame, and the users are exposed to the IP only after purchasing the game - and its musical license(s) - and paying the due to the authors, directly or indirectly.

How that claim could have merit?

Steam also sells soundtracks and has a built-in music player, maybe that's what they're trying to exploit?

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Pure greed. Plain and simple. Just a bunch of copyright trolls.

Why be paid for our music once when we can bully storefronts to be paid for the exact same effort multiple times!?

I hope Valve decimate them in this case. Sincerely.

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So people having a license to use and distribute music, cannot actually distribute it unless the shop they're selling it with, also buys a license.

That's...rich. But it's also the UK, home of some of world's dumbest laws.

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Quoting: _Mars

In 2007, PRS for Music took a Scottish car servicing company to court because the employees were allegedly "listening to the radio at work, allowing the music to be 'heard by colleagues and customers'".

From the Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRS_for_Music#Legal_cases

It happened in other countries, too. My hairdresser has a plaque informing that the music is only for employees and the customers ought to abstain from listening to it. That's where it's headed...

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Did they also sue Epic, Apple and Google? Just asking.

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But... That music, licensed by the game devs, is not played on Steam. It's only played in the game(s) - where it's already handsomely licensed!

Valve is not letting users listen to the music besides what's already licensed within the videogame, and the users are exposed to the IP only after purchasing the game - and its musical license(s) - and paying the due to the authors, directly or indirectly.

How that claim could have merit?

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Quoting: UltraVioleti have the game on Playstation / XBox / Switch / Steam put about 100-ish hours into each platform. i love this genre but apart from this and the first game i've yet to play a better tower defence game. if anyone knows of better or just as good tower defence games i'd love to play them.

It's a different kind of TD, as you don't shape the paths, but the Kingdom Rush games are all pretty good IMHO.
They are at a reduced price on Steam right now.

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Quoting: MayeulC

Quoting: liloventWhy aren't they sueing the owners of these games, Microsoft, Take Two and Electronic Arts?

These already paid a license. They want the store to pay a license as well.

Well, Microsoft also has several stores, one in Windows and another one on XBox where it sells other games not developed or published by them. And that without talking about GamePass or their cloud services where again you can play games from other companies.

We can also talk about Sony, Nintendo, Apple or Google and their own game stores. I doubt any of them license the songs that all the games sold through their store use.

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