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Quoting: LoudTechieAh, I didn't know that.
That indeed doesn't really lend credibility to my hypothesis.

It would be valid in every other case. :D

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@Caldathras - No problem, it's all good!

I did ended up upgrading manually Xfce from 4.18 to 4.20, but it wasn't so smooth at first and I had to do some fixes afterwards. It's ok now, but it isn't something I recommend doing it unless someone really wants to spend some time smoothing out the rough edges.

In my case I really wanted the 4.20 version because there's a very nice new feature that I didn't see mentioned anywhere (but only noticed it when testing distros that had Xfce 4.20) - the icons from the windows buttons list are finally at the right size. Previously, the icons size from windows buttons went from 16 px straight to 32 px (with nothing in between) - so, for instance, with the standard taskbar from the current Mint Xfce (with 4.18), the app launchers (24 px) are bigger than the icons in the windows buttons list (16 px). It seems something minor in theory, but for a daily usage it makes a huge difference having the icons bigger in the windows list.

Thankfully, we're only a few months from the next major Mint release with a new LTS base, so everyone will be able to enjoy the new Xfce version on Mint soon.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

That restriction as far as I am aware does not exist. We've seen Linux-only releases on Steam, and we've also seen Linux+Mac only releases.

I have seen a developer complaining that they're not allowed to do it, and I've never seen someone doing it. Do you have an example?

Could it be their boss forbade them.
Linux isn't a very profitable market yet.

It was a little indie game by a Linux fan, so no bosses involved. :)

Ah, I didn't know that.
That indeed doesn't really lend credibility to my hypothesis.

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Quoting: LoudTechie

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

That restriction as far as I am aware does not exist. We've seen Linux-only releases on Steam, and we've also seen Linux+Mac only releases.

I have seen a developer complaining that they're not allowed to do it, and I've never seen someone doing it. Do you have an example?

Could it be their boss forbade them.
Linux isn't a very profitable market yet.

It was a little indie game by a Linux fan, so no bosses involved. :)

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That looks much better!

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

That restriction as far as I am aware does not exist. We've seen Linux-only releases on Steam, and we've also seen Linux+Mac only releases.

I have seen a developer complaining that they're not allowed to do it, and I've never seen someone doing it. Do you have an example?

Could it be their boss forbade them.
Linux isn't a very profitable market yet.

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

That restriction as far as I am aware does not exist. We've seen Linux-only releases on Steam, and we've also seen Linux+Mac only releases.

I have seen a developer complaining that they're not allowed to do it, and I've never seen someone doing it. Do you have an example?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/594550/Arma_Cold_War_Assault_MacLinux/ - Mac and Linux only.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/3715960/MacInVR/ - advertises Mac only (not out yet).

https://store.steampowered.com/app/2507880/Sunbeam/ - Mac only.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1065900/Celtreos/ - Mac only.

There was an indie game patchman that originally only launched for Linux too.

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Love this

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

That restriction as far as I am aware does not exist. We've seen Linux-only releases on Steam, and we've also seen Linux+Mac only releases.

I have seen a developer complaining that they're not allowed to do it, and I've never seen someone doing it. Do you have an example?

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This is a very good point about the text.

Steamworks games can also be marked for "Remote Play on TV" since big screen gaming on Steam was until now linked with using the Steam Link (hardware or app). https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/remoteplay

I think it might be a good time for Steam to encourage developers to mark their games as playable on both small screens and big screens from the couch! By making sure the user interface and text are both legible in these use cases.

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They will never stop updating as long as they live

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

That restriction as far as I am aware does not exist. We've seen Linux-only releases on Steam, and we've also seen Linux+Mac only releases.

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Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

[QUEMU can emulate in any direction.](https://www.qemu.org/docs/master/system/target-arm.html)
Windows on ARM exists, so ARM wouldn't be the problem.
The VR part could be.
You see Windows doesn't dominate the VR space.
All the major players run some level of POSIX/UNIX compatible OS.
This might drive devs to develop POSIX/UNIX centric games.
In theory it could probably be run with WSL and WSA.
Yet, as someone who has helped classmates use that garbage: that would be a major downgrade from the first class experience Windows users are used to.

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Quoting: CorbenIs known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

They might have the restriction that ARM games must be able to run on X86, too, just like there is (AFAIK) a restriction that any Linux native game must be available for Windows, too.

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Quoting: ArehandoroWas Mesa 26 the one that was going to also bring a tone of improvements to Indiana Jones? I wanted to play it soon.

yes, it fixes the insane stuttering that drops fps down to the tens in most areas of he game

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Is known how they are putting these games on the store? I'm wondering how it will be labeled, as just "VR" won't be enough anymore. Right now we have (mostly) Windows games that just run on Linux and Steam Deck (if not too demanding, but techically they run). On Linux PC (i.e. x86, amd64 etc.). When VR games are compiled for arm though, will they run on PC too?
Will they create a seperate store/category for arm steam frame VR games?
Will PC VR gamers running HTC Vive, Valve Index etc. be able to play these games too or will they miss out? Is this was Lepton is aiming for, but only for Linux users? Don't get me wrong, the more Linux the better, yet VR is a niche, and if Windows VR gamers would not be able to play those games too, it's a loss.

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Quoting: JohnologueI think this really shows off how much long-term work Valve had to fund and wait for to make something like this possible. Without FEX, I imagine the Frame would have been x86-based to work as a "PC" and to play Steam games, but AFAIK most XR hardware is ARM-based. Without Proton, there wouldn't have even been a place to start. You can't make something like this while every game you distribute is stuck on Windows.

The tech industry likes talking about "magical experiences" whenever they do something particularly dystopian. I think Valve has actually created a "magical experience".

You can stuff x86 Windows games into an ARM Linux VR headset and expect them to run better than native.
How many years ago would each part of that sentence be utter madness?

Necromancers and blood mages are wizards too.
Just, because Disney tries to associate magic with happiness doesn't mean that's its meaning.

Edit:
I mean Judaism and Christianity see it as one of the most horrifying blasphemies.
The Islam treats it at most as something neutral.
Most magic in the work of the Grimm brothers is evil.
Disney is a bunch of artists trained to subvert expectations and succeeds, but it's still mostly a trope subversion to treat magic as something good.

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That is just dumb, plain and simple. The reasoning with the double effort is sound, but the consequence should have been to ditch the legacy option and focus on the future instead of dwelling in the past...

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Quoting: ChrisznixI had perfect eyes 40 years long. Then... i suddenly understood all those people that complained that "the light is too dark in here" or arms that grow too short.
The display size is the most limiting factor that prevents me to play anything on the deck, and mostly it comes down to text size. I'm with you on that. 8-)

I do feel you.

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I had perfect eyes 40 years long. Then... i suddenly understood all those people that complained that "the light is too dark in here" or arms that grow too short.
The display size is the most limiting factor that prevents me to play anything on the deck, and mostly it comes down to text size. I'm with you on that. 8-)

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Quoting: syylkProper Wayland support when? (Especially wrt shortcuts.)

No shortcuts is (was?) a Wayland limitation, there was no API for OBS to capture shortcuts lol. I recall an announcement of a new, KDE Plasma only API for shortcut support, OBS could use that if / when it becomes available.

Surely someone recalls the details but short story is OBS is not at fault here

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I think this really shows off how much long-term work Valve had to fund and wait for to make something like this possible. Without FEX, I imagine the Frame would have been x86-based to work as a "PC" and to play Steam games, but AFAIK most XR hardware is ARM-based. Without Proton, there wouldn't have even been a place to start. You can't make something like this while every game you distribute is stuck on Windows.

The tech industry likes talking about "magical experiences" whenever they do something particularly dystopian. I think Valve has actually created a "magical experience".

You can stuff x86 Windows games into an ARM Linux VR headset and expect them to run better than native.
How many years ago would each part of that sentence be utter madness?

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: CaldathrasWhile I've gotten used to their DRM-free script-based Linux installers, I would love it if they moved the Linux offline installers to AppImage, with all of the dependencies incorporated.

eh, appimage isn't really the 'container format' that it seems to have initially been sold as. In many cases there are system dependencies and linked libraries that as per linux will get updated to a point where by the appimage cannot work at all, which then requires a full appimage refresh & update. it is also not sandboxed without firejail.

( anecdote incoming: i thought i was archiving programs originally, turns out 6 months is a long time in software, my favorite appimage was just a grey empt box with a gtk crash handler message.. and this was on linux mint not exact a rolling release.)


Now flatpak .. That is much more inline with a kind of 'bottled' instance of software, it too also needing to remain somewhat in step with the system but it has some other benefits of better system integration & is sandboxed. Plus flathub / flatpak is becoming the de-facto distro agnostic software distribution method so there is consistency of support via popularity.

imo ofc

Strange, I don't think I've ever had that issue happen to an AppImage, unless it was caused by AppImagelauncher being out of date -- then I've had all sorts of problems. In my opinion, if that happens to an AppImage, the packager is not doing their job correctly. By the way, I can testify from first-hand experience that this can happen with flatpak packages as well. Neither packaging system is perfect.

My problem with flatpak is, as I understand it, you basically end up with an installer that is dependent on the flatpak system to install. To my knowledge, you cannot back it up easily (in manner readily accessible to a basic user) and you need to be online to install it. It is not stored on your system but on a server somewhere on the Internet. If that server goes down -- or you no longer have Internet access (for whatever reason) -- you cannot install the game.

Whereas, the whole point behind GOG's offline installers is that they are self-contained and DRM-free offline installers. To me, the AppImage format fits the bill -- with the ability to include all dependencies, if done correctly. Certainly, some maintenance on GOG's part over time will be necessary. And, heck, even the Windows offline installers are sometimes missing dependencies and need updating (although GOG's Preservation Program is improving on that).

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Quoting: ArehandoroUnfortunately the teaser doesn't say anything to me 😢

What a tease.

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​In my case d7vk begin to work however with version 1.2 dont work (crashes and freezes) however with 1.1 run some things

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer Stone



Rayman 2



Resident Evil 3



Other titles tested, some entry others dont: toy story 2, emperors new groove, disney hercules, harry potter and the chamber of secrets, divine divinity, empire earth, dungeon siege, fifa 2001 and others

In my case use new wow64 and for this in my case need add this overrides on 32bit libraries on wine located on:

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Wow6432Node\Wine\DllOve rrides]
"d3d10"="native"
"d3d10_1"="native"
"d3d10core"="native"
"d3d11"="native"
"d3d8"="native"
"d3d9"="native"
"ddraw"="native,builtin"
"dxgi"="native"

Also have this overrides on 64bit libraries on wine:

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Wine\DllOverrides]
"d3d10"="native"
"d3d10_1"="native"
"d3d10core"="native"
"d3d11"="native"
"d3d12"="native"
"d3d12core"="native"
"d3d8"="native"
"d3d9"="native"
"ddraw"="native,builtin"
"dxgi"="native"

😀

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Quoting: Penguin

Quoting: Caldathras

Quoting: PenguinFor reference: the Mint team updated their Xfce flavor (from 4.16 to 4.18) in Mint 21.2.

Uhm... I have Mint 21.3 XFCE currently. It ships with Xfce 4.16. The update actually happened with Mint 22.0. We likely won't see Xfce 4.20 until Mint 23 comes out.

As @AsciiWolf pointed out, it has to do with the base version of Ubuntu they rely on. The only exception is Cinnamon, which the Mint Team manages themselves.

Well, I was eagerly waiting for the (back then) new Xfce clock plugin, which was delivered in Mint 21.2 with Xfce 4.18, and I remember it well. Just to be sure I'm not crazy, I did some research, and you can read more about the Mint 21.2 release here:

https://9to5linux.com/linux-mint-21-2-victoria-is-slated-for-release-on-june-2023-heres-what-to-expect

In the article it says:

"Most notably here, the Xfce edition will be based on the latest Xfce 4.18 desktop environment."

😮

Well, I'll be ... I could have sworn that Mint 21.3 was on Xfce 4.16! But, here I am on that very laptop, and sure enough ... neofetch says it is running on Xfce 4.18. I had the ISO for Mint 21.2, so I checked that too -- you are absolutely right!

I knew that Mint 22.0 was on Xfce 4.18 and one of the reasons I rolled back was because of some formatting bugs in the system tray that strangely do not appear in Mint 21.3. I just assumed it was because of a version upgrade on Xfce and never bothered to check once I was back on Mint 21.3.

I apologize for contradicting you. Now that I know, I share your sentiments ... but it looks like we will have to wait until a version of Mint based on Ubuntu 25.04 or later (or use the Xubuntu Experimental PPA -- I'll wait).

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A disappointing development, but I don't think quite as much of a blow as it sounds. Mod Manager 2 works in Wine/Proton, Vortex usually works in Wine/Proton from my testing, and if you'd rather a native solution, there is always Limo. It hasn't been updated in a little while but everything it already does, it does very well. I can recommend it for all Bethesda games at least.

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I streamed and played RE8 with Fsync. GPU got to 100C and frames were dropping in game and OBS. That was with 1440p 60fps ultra no ray tracing. So i went and enabled NTSync and was about to reproduce my dropped frames issue with OBS log, but to my surprise i couldn't get the GPU to starve even with 4k 60fps ray tracing and temps were hovering at 70C.

So either i had before some crypto miner going on or NTSync was a godsend. :D

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Quoting: ArehandoroWill all Steam Deck Verified games run at 4K@60FPS? Cause they said all Steam Machine Verified games would...

4K60 with upscaling is what they said. And if the Deck can hit 720p30 (the Deck's performance floor) in a game, the Machine should definitely be able to do that game at 720p60 with the same settings. They haven't said that games have to look good after upscaling, after all. But realistically the Machine is going to render 1080p60 or 1440p60 for a lot of games and 4K60 for some, and likely with better settings than the Deck (but not Ultra settings generally).

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Will all Steam Deck Verified games run at 4K@60FPS? Cause they said all Steam Machine Verified games would...

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