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Quoting: ttyborg

Quoting: STiATThat looks ... so great. I could bite my a** I didn't pledge.

You can, here.

I know, but well .. supporting it now for getting into beta seems pretty lame ;-). But I'll keep thinking about it.

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Quoting: MikeThis is something that will iron itself out. Developing on OpenGL is getting easier and easier with big names like Valve also highlighting its advantages. The migration will be something that happens in time but exponentially (due to the network effect), when the Linux/Mac market shares keep growing and devs realise that rather than developing on DirectX then porting to OpenGL, it's much easier and cheaper to develop directly on OpenGL for all 3 platforms. This will happen with indie devs first, but will eventually make its way into the big names. I don't think it will take long for devs to realise that the extra step in moving from DirectX to OpenGL is pointless, considering most new games now are multiplatform (PC/Mac at least) it doesn't take a genius to realise that spending months creating imperfect ports of games is an unnecessary hassle.

It seems like the end to the Microsoft monopoly will never come, but these are changes that happen very suddenly. Just remember how 6 years ago Internet Explorer still had 80% of the market, but now it's relegated to insignificance or people who just don't know how to change their browser. The same will happen to DirectX and maybe someday Windows itself. Technology is no longer at a point where it makes sense for one company to impose its standards on everyone else.

It's mainly just a disrupt which is needed. What Valve did is create a standard for driver vendors and game developers to target to. One distribution, one test environment. That's what they wanted. That's what they need to support. This was mainly not needed for the game developers - they mostly won't care anyway. Rarely they develop their own engines nowdays, they mostly license engines and develop games on them. There still can exist problems by the game implementation, but as you see with Unity3d nowdays - games are suffering the same bugs in the same versions of Unity3d. Hardly any developer studio develops low-level OpenGL/D3D code and engine anymore, since there are a lot of options out there fitting their needs. Of course there are exceptions, especially looking at EA.

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Very interesting talks, very detailed description. I like the apitest, and running on windows and linux it perfectly shows the different results. Though, the options are let's say the "real" ones in OpenGL dev, they don't cover the circumstances you are in, so you maybe end up seeing a different solution working better for your problem.

What I think as well is one of the problems they didn't mention. OpenGL features so many pathes to get to a solution that you're likely not to end up with the best solution for your problem. In D3D you mostly have 1-2 pathes to go, which is in general easier for the developers.

This certainly has to do with all the new extensions, having so many to choose from can be great, but a burden too.

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Quoting: GoCorinthiansOk. got it sometime ago on my library but never tried out because no sound under OpenSUSE but now its ok. SteamOS is fine too.

After 200hrs on Rust lets try another zombie game.

JAVA? what hell! nothing is perfect...

Whats wrong with java? Good for an indie dev, cross platform has a great 2d library.

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It's on sale right now, 75% off.

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OpenGL is not the problem, AAA titles and others are considering it already only for having a Mac port.

Once having OpenGL, doing Linux isn't too much of a deal graphics whise. The thing really more challanging is input handling and sound systems (if they don't use an abstraction already). OpenGL mostly isn't the part devs are worried about in Linux if they already did a Mac port.

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Do new citizens start wandering through your town when your population increases past the max town hall requirement of 1600? It's hard to keep track of whether new ones appear when you have so many wandering around, but I think some new ones moved in...

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Quoting: grumpy-datMeh, hardly an eve online replacement. Eve has far more to it, in every respect from what I can see so far with the exception of the UI the player uses. Hell, for all the hype it's just another air combat game set in space with spaceships..whoop-t-doo. Fine if you like that sort of stuff, might as well play team fortress and save yourself some cash though.

Eve is an old school buggy game with terrible customer support, no actual first-person flying around, extremely hard on new players, badly documented, slow on updates, mainly for killing and not for exploration or other activities, also non-Linux and the Mac version is pathetic.
Eve is waiting to die for a couple of years now and here comes the funeral!

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Quoting: Anonymoustoo bad they dropped support for the majority of some of their not-so-old "Legacy" graphics cards completely

Which ones, 4000 series? I've heard the free driver works really well with those now, so Catalyst doesn't really seem needed.

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too bad they dropped support for the majority of some of their not-so-old "Legacy" graphics cards completely

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: SpeedsterAlso is FOOS a new acronym I'm not aware of, or just a typo for FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)?

Yep! FOOS is for Free and Open Source.

Interesting, what's the second 'O' stand for?

Oops just saw followup, guess it is typo after all, probably one of those things where your fingers just prefer to do the wrong thing -- I get that with programming variables that other people pick sometimes ;)

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Quoting: Metallinatus

Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: SpeedsterAlso is FOOS a new acronym I'm not aware of, or just a typo for FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)?

Yep! FOOS is for Free and Open Source.

FOOS = Free Ond Open Source*

Doh! :D
FOSS... Wrote it twice... That's a shame!

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Quoting: Mohandevir

Quoting: SpeedsterAlso is FOOS a new acronym I'm not aware of, or just a typo for FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)?

Yep! FOOS is for Free and Open Source.

FOOS = Free Ond Open Source*

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Quoting: SpeedsterAlso is FOOS a new acronym I'm not aware of, or just a typo for FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)?

Yep! FOOS is for Free and Open Source.

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Quoting: jdub

Quoting: MohandevirJust a feeling... Do you think that their implication in the developpment of the FOOS driver has something to do with the fact that Catalyst doesn't support Ubuntu 14.04 yet?

I'm running an Inspiron-N5110 with Kubuntu 14.04 on the FOOS driver and it's just fine. I get as many fps and it is mouse lag free. Not to mention all the installation problems and workarounds you have to do to get Catalyst working just because it's a DELL.

Just out of curiosity, what does being a Dell have to do with Catalyst installation?

I don't know if it's true for all DELL Laptops, but for my Inspiron N-5110, even on Windows' original installation, you have to use the DELL videocard drivers. You can't download a driver from AMD and think it's going to work. I never had any success that way. Catalyst won't install.

I may be wrong but I think it has something to do with the DELL homemade BIOS.

At least with Kubuntu 14.04 ans the FOOS driver, everything works out of the box.

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Also is FOOS a new acronym I'm not aware of, or just a typo for FOSS (Free and Open Source Software)?

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Quoting: MohandevirJust a feeling... Do you think that their implication in the developpment of the FOOS driver has something to do with the fact that Catalyst doesn't support Ubuntu 14.04 yet?

I'm running an Inspiron-N5110 with Kubuntu 14.04 on the FOOS driver and it's just fine. I get as many fps and it is mouse lag free. Not to mention all the installation problems and workarounds you have to do to get Catalyst working just because it's a DELL.

Just out of curiosity, what does being a Dell have to do with Catalyst installation?

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Cheeseness will probably like this game. ;)

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Quoting: Anonymous

Quoting: GoCorinthiansOk. got it sometime ago on my library but never tried out because no sound under OpenSUSE but now its ok. SteamOS is fine too.

After 200hrs on Rust lets try another zombie game.

JAVA? what hell! nothing is perfect...

Rust is not a zombie game, it's a human cruelty simulator

lmao....yep Garry removed zombies...

DayZ i have it in my library but didnt reached 1 hour playing it...

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Quoting: GoCorinthiansOk. got it sometime ago on my library but never tried out because no sound under OpenSUSE but now its ok. SteamOS is fine too.

After 200hrs on Rust lets try another zombie game.

JAVA? what hell! nothing is perfect...

Rust is not a zombie game, it's a human cruelty simulator

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Meh, hardly an eve online replacement. Eve has far more to it, in every respect from what I can see so far with the exception of the UI the player uses. Hell, for all the hype it's just another air combat game set in space with spaceships..whoop-t-doo. Fine if you like that sort of stuff, might as well play team fortress and save yourself some cash though.

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Quoting: MikeThis is something that will iron itself out. Developing on OpenGL is getting easier and easier with big names like Valve also highlighting its advantages. The migration will be something that happens in time but exponentially (due to the network effect), when the Linux/Mac market shares keep growing and devs realise that rather than developing on DirectX then porting to OpenGL, it's much easier and cheaper to develop directly on OpenGL for all 3 platforms. This will happen with indie devs first, but will eventually make its way into the big names. I don't think it will take long for devs to realise that the extra step in moving from DirectX to OpenGL is pointless, considering most new games now are multiplatform (PC/Mac at least) it doesn't take a genius to realise that spending months creating imperfect ports of games is an unnecessary hassle.

It seems like the end to the Microsoft monopoly will never come, but these are changes that happen very suddenly. Just remember how 6 years ago Internet Explorer still had 80% of the market, but now it's relegated to insignificance or people who just don't know how to change their browser. The same will happen to DirectX and maybe someday Windows itself. Technology is no longer at a point where it makes sense for one company to impose its standards on everyone else.

Perfect post, it's my view too.
The question is when, no more an "if".

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Very true Mike, very true.

With mobiles especially like phones and tablets, you have more startups going to them rather than Desktops too. Which is another nail in Microsoft's coffin considering their phone and tablet sales are abysmal.

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This is something that will iron itself out. Developing on OpenGL is getting easier and easier with big names like Valve also highlighting its advantages. The migration will be something that happens in time but exponentially (due to the network effect), when the Linux/Mac market shares keep growing and devs realise that rather than developing on DirectX then porting to OpenGL, it's much easier and cheaper to develop directly on OpenGL for all 3 platforms. This will happen with indie devs first, but will eventually make its way into the big names. I don't think it will take long for devs to realise that the extra step in moving from DirectX to OpenGL is pointless, considering most new games now are multiplatform (PC/Mac at least) it doesn't take a genius to realise that spending months creating imperfect ports of games is an unnecessary hassle.

It seems like the end to the Microsoft monopoly will never come, but these are changes that happen very suddenly. Just remember how 6 years ago Internet Explorer still had 80% of the market, but now it's relegated to insignificance or people who just don't know how to change their browser. The same will happen to DirectX and maybe someday Windows itself. Technology is no longer at a point where it makes sense for one company to impose its standards on everyone else.

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Just a feeling... Do you think that their implication in the developpment of the FOOS driver has something to do with the fact that Catalyst doesn't support Ubuntu 14.04 yet?

I'm running an Inspiron-N5110 with Kubuntu 14.04 on the FOOS driver and it's just fine. I get as many fps and it is mouse lag free. Not to mention all the installation problems and workarounds you have to do to get Catalyst working just because it's a DELL.

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What seems more strange is:

Why AMD just release a low level api just a few weeks before the next-gen pc based show up...

Could it be that developer from consoles extract always most of hide powers from hardware and AMD/Nvidia already know about it and now couldnt more hide that...then releasing a revolurionary before consoles show that they(AMD/NVIDIA) are PC's Heroes...

Weird enough

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Wait*

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Wiat old issue "Lagg after playing games for a while" is not on solved list nor on "Open issues"

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Ok. got it sometime ago on my library but never tried out because no sound under OpenSUSE but now its ok. SteamOS is fine too.

After 200hrs on Rust lets try another zombie game.

JAVA? what hell! nothing is perfect...

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looks fun. Will sure get it for at least a couple of months.

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