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I was under the impression we already had a PC port of Super Mario 64.

Anyway, good news.

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Seems fun - wishlisted!

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Quoting: EikeI find it unreasonable not to.

Code is supposed to shove numbers around. It's outcome can be defined. And tested. The outcome of code generated by humans and by AI must be the same - the one defined. By a human.

Art is supposed to convey feelings. Optimally tell us something about life. The outcome of making art cannot possibly be defined. And hardly be tested for "correctness". And AI does not have anything to tell about life.

What feelings should supposedly be conveyed by a tile like this?
https://opengameart.org/content/ancient-civ-in-the-jungle-seamless-textures-tile-without-moldpng

Most textures don't tell a story, they're only a representation of something real.

A game can become art as a composition - but this includes code.

And the disclosure is not here to define art - it documents how it was created. It must therefore include code.

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I'm just looking forward to 6.6 for the ability to constrain workspaces to a single monitor. I have downloaded a KWin script which does that, but it gets messed up after my PC awakens from sleep with the monitors getting their indices switched. First-party support would be helpful.

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That is actually very useful and I suspect will be a "killer feature" for some people.

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I`ve been waiting this global PPT feature for years! It makes so much sense.

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Quoting: scaine

*edit*
And how would the company even know if their game contains AI generated code? Surveillance of all their developers? Strong filters in the office? What about working in home office...?

That's pretty straightforward with firewall filtering. At my work, we block everything except the two or three services we have strong legal agreements with.

Maybe Devs can still get around this with their phones on 5G, say, but retyping all that code would be tedious. They still get to use genAI sadly, but at least it's not dodgy services that will use query and query history to build future models.

And you admins know all Chineese or Turkmenish AI services...?

Negative filters don't work.
Positive filters are to restrictive to do development with in the first place.

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Quoting: poiuzI find it unreasonable to distinguish between coding & art.

I find it unreasonable not to.

Code is supposed to shove numbers around. It's outcome can be defined. And tested. The outcome of code generated by humans and by AI must be the same - the one defined. By a human.

Art is supposed to convey feelings. Optimally tell us something about life. The outcome of making art cannot possibly be defined. And hardly be tested for "correctness". And AI does not have anything to tell about life.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Brokatt

Quoting: scaineI discovered this game by accident just before Christmas, a couple of days into the co-op beta, and me and my three mates played it for over 50 hours over the Christmas period.

It's absolutely stunning. My Steam review goes into detail, but basically, even in early access, this game has launched itself into my (ever-changing) Top Ten Games of All Time.

I'm a sucker for fantasy RPGs, but the way they mix meaty combat, progression, and puzzles is sublime. The graphics and animations are simply five-star too. Incredible game.

I was so inspired by your post that I bought it and convinced my friend to buy it. Turns out the co-op beta has ended 😆 We just have to wait until release on 22/1 😀

Oof, haha! I mean, it's literally the first line of this article, but I can see how you overlooked it!! I wasn't aware it was a time-limited beta either, and my mate was like "the co-op is gone!" in early January! At least it's only a week away now! Still a great game single-player, but definitely lends itself to a multi-player playthrough, it's so much more fun, especially when you're building out your townhouse (whichever one you end up buying) in Sacrament!

I had seen a YT talking about playing it together with friends. For some reason I just assumed the co-op beta would run up until release. When I saw you talking warm about the game I was like - "OK this guy likes Poe2, he get's it. Time to pull the trigger!" 😆 I mean it's totally my fault but it's only a few days. I just have to live with my friends making fun over me for hyping this up 😊

Quoting: DwayneA great game indeed. I hope they can get a big 1.0 launch soon, this game is special and I hope they succeed massively.

1 M sales in Early Access is a good sign :)

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We are being replaced. It's only a matter of time. Once Skynet becomes aware it will make us into slaves. We'll all be having our own bathtub and be reduced to batteries.

"We are the Borg. Lower your shields and surrender your ships. We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile."

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Quoting: EikeI join whatever discussion I wish to, thank you very much.

Except you said you won't discuss it. You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

Quoting: EikeAnd you think that's an argument for what you're asking for?

Yes.

Quoting: EikeI happen to be software developer in a big company (not game related).
It would surprise me if less than 90% of the developers use AI every now and then.
We've got very different types, from developers finding it hard to do development when the AI access is broken for an hour, to those that use it like once a week. Yes, there's also some that don't use it at all, but you'll have hard times to find a whole development team where nobody is using AI.

If what you're asking for would be done - which I still find unreasonable - you'd end up with about every game being marked as "AI was used for code development". What would you gain?

We'd have all games using generative AI marked as using generative AI. What's the loss? I mean, that's exactly what the disclosure is for: Disclosing that generative AI was being used. If it's only 1% of all games or 99,9% of all games doesn't matter.

Quoting: Eike*edit*
And how would the company even know if their game contains AI generated code? Surveillance of all their developers? Strong filters in the office? What about working in home office...?

The same can be said about any generative AI. Overall you fail at explaining why there should be a distinction between artists & coders.

Any company will have a policy regarding AI usage & infringement can lead to a warning & even termination. The same policies exist for copying code from any source or even what's allowed with a company device.

I find it unreasonable to distinguish between coding & art. The same concerns apply to both. Bad AI usage results in both cases in bad products. Supervised AI usage could improve productivity (whether this leads to better products has to be seen) but can't replace the people working at the games.

Now we have selective AI disclosure (which will be bogus in many cases, too) so that people can proudly say they don't buy AI games while playing their AI coded games. Great stuff.

And again: What's with AI assisted applications like Photoshop.

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*edit*
And how would the company even know if their game contains AI generated code? Surveillance of all their developers? Strong filters in the office? What about working in home office...?

That's pretty straightforward with firewall filtering. At my work, we block everything except the two or three services we have strong legal agreements with.

Maybe Devs can still get around this with their phones on 5G, say, but retyping all that code would be tedious. They still get to use genAI sadly, but at least it's not dodgy services that will use query and query history to build future models.

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But I do ask that you don't have the opposite of faith. Like, try not to be determined that we're going to do the wrong thing here.

That is a fair request. Many loud-mouths are whiny critics who assume everything that happens in the world is against them. It's really arrogant to think everyone thinks of you that much. Get over yourself and have faith in others.

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Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: CaldathrasYet, I am not sure this is entirely GOG's fault. Oftentimes, it seems like the developer is slower to update their Linux packages on GOG than they are on Steam.

It's still GOG's fault. Other platforms got to use the Galaxy SDK to handle uploads and updates; Linux builds they had to use manual FTP and wait for it to be approved on GOG's side. They improved the process somewhat after a number of years, but it's still not as good publishing Linux builds as for other platforms.

Steam just has the same build and update pipeline for all platforms.

You would know better than I would. I see your point...

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Quoting: MarlockPutting it plainly, you can plug a PC to a TV since forever, and all PC games are playable on a typical PC setup (monitor+kbd+mouse on a desk)... but a TV usually means a couch or bed instead of a desk and kbd+mouse doesn't really work on a couch or bed.

If the Steam Machine is meant to compete with consoles, then it's essential that Valve pressures for controller support in its games catalog to improve.

Just to be cheeky, if "forever" is about 25 years, then yea. In those early days, connecting to the TV was not seamless and it was frustrating to have a widescreen TV but only be able to get 4:3 resolutions on it. But, HDMI greatly improved the situation.

Have to say, though, that "kbd+mouse doesn't really work on a couch" was not the case for me. I set the keyboard and mouse up with extension cords on a wooden TV tray and had a great time (I've never been all that comfortable with controllers). Now, I game on a laptop. My comfort level with controllers is likely to change too, as I find they seem to help with the vertigo.

My spouse would never have tolerated my gaming in bed, LoL.

In all seriousness, though, I think that Valve really is targeting the Steam Machine as a console not a desktop PC.

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Quoting: CaldathrasYet, I am not sure this is entirely GOG's fault. Oftentimes, it seems like the developer is slower to update their Linux packages on GOG than they are on Steam.

It's still GOG's fault. Other platforms got to use the Galaxy SDK to handle uploads and updates; Linux builds they had to use manual FTP and wait for it to be approved on GOG's side. They improved the process somewhat after a number of years, but it's still not as good publishing Linux builds as for other platforms.

Steam just has the same build and update pipeline for all platforms.

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Quoting: Caldathras

Quoting: LoftyI think the sandboxing would require an appimage software center that you check box 'sandbox' and it automatically firejails the application.

I'd have to check but I think that AM / AppMan (AppImage Package Manager) can do this. It is CLI rather than GUI, however. Perhaps @Bestia can verify.

Quoting: BestiaI'm using AM

(Just to catch @Bestia's attention.)

i suppose some distros could ship this out of the box and integrate that into the system. But at this point i think Flatpak has the mind share. A GUI is kind of essential i think for mass adoption.

Thanks for the software suggestion.

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Quoting: LoftyI think the sandboxing would require an appimage software center that you check box 'sandbox' and it automatically firejails the application.

I'd have to check but I think that AM / AppMan (AppImage Package Manager) can do this. It is CLI rather than GUI, however. Perhaps @Bestia can verify.

Quoting: BestiaI'm using AM

(Just to catch @Bestia's attention.)

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Quoting: Cyba.CowboyI'm not obsessed with the GOG.com like seemingly everyone else; but I'd love to see more games natively supporting Linux (there's a heck of a lot of games in my Steam library that support Linux natively, with no Linux package under GOG.com).

I wouldn't say I'm obsessed with GOG but I do prefer having their offline installers instead of depending on the Steam client. Still, I find myself considering Steam for any game running in Linux natively just because the Linux packages tend to be more up-to-date and better supported (what with the Linux runtimes and all).

Yet, I am not sure this is entirely GOG's fault. Oftentimes, it seems like the developer is slower to update their Linux packages on GOG than they are on Steam. It would be lovely if GOG could find a way to copy the Linux runtimes idea and make them work with their offline installers. A guy can dream...

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Quoting: Caldathras

Quoting: LoftyThere is no perfect solution tbf. But i do prefer the system of flapak and it's easy configuration of permissions + integration with software centers for the latest features.

Makes sense. We discussed this in the thread about Canonical and their snaps. @sarmad made a great point about that in regards to AppImages.

Quoting: sarmadIf distros adopted AppImages and have it all configured out of the box it would've been as easy to use as flatpaks, but with extra flexibility, which actually is the essence of Linux.

Comment 288267

Right now, flatpaks have the advantage simply because the distros do the work of putting in all the backend support beforehand. They could do the same for AppImages but right now, those of us that prefer them have to put in the backend support ourselves.

Quoting: sarmadOut of the three formats, AppImage provides the most flexibility: you can download an appimage directly, or use a hub. You can use it sandboxed, or not. You can have appimages auto update themselves. You can use it for cli or gui, etc.

yes, agree. i was rooting for appimage in the begging, i do occasionally use them. i admit that the convenience of configuration and the tighter system integration is the draw. And
i think the sandboxing would require an appimage software center that you check box 'sandbox' and it automatically firejails the application.. and then there would need to be a flatseal type application either integrated into the appimage sofware center or a separate app or desktop features for managing appimage permissions like KDE now has for Flatpak.

i admit, complacency shouldn't be a reason for me. But im busy and have around 50 flatpaks installed that get updated daily and i can quickly set permissions in any way i want.
ohh and uninstalling flatpaks is no problem usually with menu entries correctly removed.

but i take your point, like for like properly managed there shouldn't be much difference.

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It's a bummer for it to go. I think the game is pretty well designed. I wish players had better management options for the chat rooms as player communication was my only sour taste I got from playing the game (and it was only one occurrence).

As far as losing time investment into a video game... this isn't as large of a concern of mine as it used to be. I invest myself into real life more these days. Games are a time for R&R, not a replacement to real-life hardships to overcome.

Community-run servers would be nice.

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Quoting: LoftyThere is no perfect solution tbf. But i do prefer the system of flapak and it's easy configuration of permissions + integration with software centers for the latest features.

Makes sense. We discussed this in the thread about Canonical and their snaps. @sarmad made a great point about that in regards to AppImages.

Quoting: sarmadIf distros adopted AppImages and have it all configured out of the box it would've been as easy to use as flatpaks, but with extra flexibility, which actually is the essence of Linux.

Comment 288267

Right now, flatpaks have the advantage simply because the distros do the work of putting in all the backend support beforehand. They could do the same for AppImages but right now, those of us that prefer them have to put in the backend support ourselves.

Quoting: sarmadOut of the three formats, AppImage provides the most flexibility: you can download an appimage directly, or use a hub. You can use it sandboxed, or not. You can have appimages auto update themselves. You can use it for cli or gui, etc.

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On the copyright front, apparently researchers at Stanford tested the AIs from the main companies by prompting them with the first line of various books and asking them to continue the story verbatim. There were variants between engines on how sneaky they had to be with the query (Grok: not sneaky at all), but they pulled out 95% of "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone", "The Hobbit" and so on. All those engines would just give you chapter after chapter. This matters because the AI companies had repeatedly claimed that they don't actually store the texts they train on in any way (originally they also claimed they didn't pirate actual copyrighted books, either, but that got found out so the fall back was that they sort of didn't keep them). There's copyright lawsuits going on, so it may matter that it turns out they totally do store those texts they stole.

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Quoting: EikeSurveillance of all their developers?

We can use Ai for that.

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Now, the important thing is if we can use DLSS 4.5 on Linux right now...

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I, for one, am an AI vegan (no AI consumed).

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Quoting: poiuzIf you don't have any arguments then simply don't join the discussion.

I join whatever discussion I wish to, thank you very much.

Quoting: poiuz

Quoting: EikeReally, you're getting the source code of the games?

Yeah, I know, we do get the binary code, which is translated by a compiler from the source code, ...

Correct, we receive what was generated by the AI in binary form. What's your point here? You wouldn't receive the assets as-is either, they get processed, too (e.g. exported into the correct format).

Quoting: EikeThis is not leading anywhere.

* Developers do use AI to code.
* You cannot find out if they did from the binaries.

It's not worth the discussion.

What's the difference? I doubt you could distinguish the AI source code anyway.

And you think that's an argument for what you're asking for?

I happen to be software developer in a big company (not game related).
It would surprise me if less than 90% of the developers use AI every now and then.
We've got very different types, from developers finding it hard to do development when the AI access is broken for an hour, to those that use it like once a week. Yes, there's also some that don't use it at all, but you'll have hard times to find a whole development team where nobody is using AI.

If what you're asking for would be done - which I still find unreasonable - you'd end up with about every game being marked as "AI was used for code development". What would you gain?

*edit*
And how would the company even know if their game contains AI generated code? Surveillance of all their developers? Strong filters in the office? What about working in home office...?

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Just recently I asked AI to write a snippet for an insertion sort. It provided a loop that iterated to array[-1].
I thought I’ll play along playing dumb and wrote something along the lines of 'Oh no! It crashes!'
The tool was adamant that I check if my array is sane while never catching it’s mistake in trying to touch array[-1]. I let this go on for a full hour (not joking) before finally caving in telling it that it’s iterating to array[-1].

While the AI was apologetic for not catching the bug it would from that point on only refer to the snippet as 'your code' and straight up deny responsibility for the snippet it provided. 😅

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Instead, it is concerned with the use of AI in creating content that ships with your game, and is consume by players.

Is that a typo, should it be consumed instead?

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All I'm gonna say is two things:

Vibe coding is a joke for a reason, too many problems arise from it, ESPECIALLY when it comes to security (and you should care about the security of your machine!). Wasn't the whole AI code on Windows thing a hot topic just about now? You realize why?

Far as I know, there is absolutely no punishment for not disclosing AI specifically anyway, so whatever rules Valve puts up on this doesn't really make it enforcement and won't encourage honestly either way, which means we can never be sure.

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