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Quoting: lemmy101Metallinatus: I agree, and as you see from the first page we were happy to comply, despite the disruption it would cause. We don't want to be seen to be using people's hard work without due credit and the whole mess was just a misunderstanding. It was the subsequent arguments, as well as comments he was found to have made in our IRC at the point that thread was posted where he was threatening to have us removed from Steam over it, and also his PMs asking for me to send HIM the code, not release it publicly.

It transpired it's some Russian guy who's been decompiling our code to learn game development stuff, and it really seems to me a ploy to try and extort the PZ source code for his own use. Considering also, I'll share with you this little quote after I changed the license rules for our game to forbid decompilation (with special dispensation for the guy to confirm we'd fixed the issues he described)

"Dont let me over persuade you and reversing PZ just 4 lulz. I'm living in Russia so your lawyers have no power here. I'm not looking for money profit, I'm looking for experience and reversing PZ will give it me"

So the same champion for justice making sure other people's licenses are respected has no qualms about breaking our own license agreement, even taunting us at his immunity from any action we might take to defend our license. So the list of reasons why I do not respect his motivations for raising this in the first place is growing ever larger.

I understand everything now.... what he asked was not wrong, but the way and the reason he did.... he really is no "good guy" after all :)

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Bought. As it looks really weird and I was... absorbed by Antichamber, I had to give it a chance!

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: MetallinatusI saw the first page of the linked thread and I saw nothing wrong actually.
The guy just demanded the source codes he have the rights to see, he was polite and all, did nothing wrong at all....
Then I saw the other pages and DAMN!... Hell did brake loose in there....
So, the guy is right to ask for the licenses to be respected and all and the devs were "wrong" by not be respecting it.... but this guy sureeeeeeeeeely went over the limit....
None of them was right after all, but everything could just have gone much more pacific than it was.

There's asking for a license to be respected.

Then there's threatening a developer with the FSF, Steam and threatening to release their source code. Before they can explain it.

This is all noted in my article...

Yep, that is what I meant by going way "over the limit".... as I said, everything could have been much more "pacific"

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Quoting: HamishIt should also be pointed out that the license in question is the LGPL, not the GPL itself as is claimed by the article, which is more in line although not the same as the MIT license which is Liam's preference in this instance.

Ah damn I went to a really old site of EasyWay Game Engine that listed GPL not LGPL. Ah well, the point is the same.

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Metallinatus: I agree, and as you see from the first page we were happy to comply, despite the disruption it would cause. We don't want to be seen to be using people's hard work without due credit and the whole mess was just a misunderstanding. It was the subsequent arguments, as well as comments he was found to have made in our IRC at the point that thread was posted where he was threatening to have us removed from Steam over it, and also his PMs asking for me to send HIM the code, not release it publicly.

It transpired it's some Russian guy who's been decompiling our code to learn game development stuff, and it really seems to me a ploy to try and extort the PZ source code for his own use. Considering also, I'll share with you this little quote after I changed the license rules for our game to forbid decompilation (with special dispensation for the guy to confirm we'd fixed the issues he described)

"Dont let me over persuade you and reversing PZ just 4 lulz. I'm living in Russia so your lawyers have no power here. I'm not looking for money profit, I'm looking for experience and reversing PZ will give it me"

So the same champion for justice making sure other people's licenses are respected has no qualms about breaking our own license agreement, even taunting us at his immunity from any action we might take to defend our license. So the list of reasons why I do not respect his motivations for raising this in the first place is growing ever larger.

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Quoting: sgtGarciaGood that he pointed possible GPL license violation, so the guys could remove that code, but threatening devs & breaking their license is just plain stupid.

He's ret arded to the point, he don't see his own hypocrisy :/

And yeah

Quoting: GoCorinthiansJava
uhhh

Yuck... ;)

Actually, he didn't brake their license.... the devs decided to change the license after all that confusion started, so it would not happen again (which I think it was a wrong way to deal with that too), so what he did was totally legal when he did.

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Quite frankly I have seen the same or worse by people trying to demand a Linux version of a game. The problem is people, and not a preference of license.

It should also be pointed out that the license in question is the LGPL, not the GPL itself as is claimed by the article, which is more in line although not the same as the MIT license which is Liam's preference in this instance.

Further, if he had gone to the FSF nothing would have come of it as they know their license, as was pointed out in the thread through this link with quotes from Eben Moglen:
http://lwn.net/Articles/61292/

About the only entity that could have actually threatened them based on that threat is Valve, and they seem rather slow on acting on more serious copyright violations anyway.

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Looks good.

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Quoting: MetallinatusI saw the first page of the linked thread and I saw nothing wrong actually.
The guy just demanded the source codes he have the rights to see, he was polite and all, did nothing wrong at all....
Then I saw the other pages and DAMN!... Hell did brake loose in there....
So, the guy is right to ask for the licenses to be respected and all and the devs were "wrong" by not be respecting it.... but this guy sureeeeeeeeeely went over the limit....
None of them was right after all, but everything could just have gone much more pacific than it was.

There's asking for a license to be respected.

Then there's threatening a developer with the FSF, Steam and threatening to release their source code. Before they can explain it.

This is all noted in my article...

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Quoting: lemmy101To clarify: This supposed engine that we used, Easy Way, was added to the project and removed within a day or two. It was of no use to us. Somehow OpenGLStates.java was left and was not used whatsoever. In what way did this engine 'help the devs to develop the game in the first place'?

I'm guessing people have different definitions of something that's "unused".

*sighs*

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I saw the first page of the linked thread and I saw nothing wrong actually.
The guy just demanded the source codes he have the rights to see, he was polite and all, did nothing wrong at all....
Then I saw the other pages and DAMN!... Hell did brake loose in there....
So, the guy is right to ask for the licenses to be respected and all and the devs were "wrong" by not be respecting it.... but this guy sureeeeeeeeeely went over the limit....
None of them was right after all, but everything could just have gone much more pacific than it was.

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To clarify: This supposed engine that we used, Easy Way, was added to the project and removed within a day or two. It was of no use to us. Somehow OpenGLStates.java was left and was not used whatsoever. In what way did this engine 'help the devs to develop the game in the first place'?

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Quoting: lanesupportThe Engine helped the devs to develop the game in first place and all what was asked back was to reference it's use and give access to possible modifications to the engines source code (not the game build with it!).

That's essentially what the LGPL (we're not speaking of the GPL here!) is asking for and is pretty much the same for the MIT license, as far as i recall it.

The devs of ZS seem to have violated it and got the chance to reply to this issue on the linked forums.

Imo it really not right to blame the messenger.

As stated it wasn't used, they used a completely different library after a brief test with the "offending" code. Since when did testing with a library equal having to mention it everywhere and open up your code if you didn't use it in the end?

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I bought this yesterday and I must say that it´s a lot better then I thought. More fun that it looks, with nice atmosphere and music. Well worth the money, especially now when it is 60% off!

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Hello lane, obviously we were eager to comply with 'the messenger's requests. Again however the whole point is this was one unused file that didn't help us build anything. So how is it fair that we'd need to distribute the source code to the entire of our game engine on account of one file of which the only function was to set some basic GL11 blend states and was not called once at any point from the day we started development to the present day, under the threat of having our livelihood destroyed by the game being removed from Steam as well as the decompiled code to our ENTIRE game (not just the affected file) being distributed as an open source project? And that removing the offending file was not deemed to be a satisfactory outcome, like the rest of our engine was fair game just because of the presence of this one file?

I remind you, this is AFTER we agree to remove the offending file ASAP.

Would love to hear how you feel we shouldn't 'blame the messenger' for what is essentially tantamount to thinly veiled blackmail.

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The Engine helped the devs to develop the game in first place and all what was asked back was to reference it's use and give access to possible modifications to the engines source code (not the game build with it!).

That's essentially what the LGPL (we're not speaking of the GPL here!) is asking for and is pretty much the same for the MIT license, as far as i recall it.

The devs of ZS seem to have violated it and got the chance to reply to this issue on the linked forums.

Imo it really not right to blame the messenger.

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Yikes. What an asshat!

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License holy war in 3...2...1 *grabs beer*

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Good that he pointed possible GPL license violation, so the guys could remove that code, but threatening devs & breaking their license is just plain stupid.

He's ret arded to the point, he don't see his own hypocrisy :/

And yeah

Quoting: GoCorinthiansJava
uhhh

Yuck... ;)

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Java
uhhh

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Quoting: Alzarath

Quoting: sobkasSo what gcc version is a naughty one?

The latest one, 4.9.

Try compiling yourself, on my test i compile wine myself

Good news is only you have this process, system already have required dependencies and for this reason its dont need make again

Once have downloaded wine source you need this commands for uninstall before version (dont delete wine folder created from source)

sudo make uninstall on wine source folder created

and after this begins with lastest wine soource downloaded


-tar xjpf wine-1.7.19.tar.bz2

-cd wine-1.7.19

-./configure

-make depend

-make

-sudo make install

however this steps show in video guide

This videos on my channel have a minor idea about compiling wine, but this process is for linux mint 16 kde 32bits

View video on youtube.com

View video on youtube.com

View video on youtube.com

View video on youtube.com

and this video for utilities installation on wine

View video on youtube.com


:)

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Pretty miffed that the current bundles don't see to show platform support. Maybe it's just that Team 17 has no support bar Windows, but all they're showing is the Steam logo. Frustrating.

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Quoting: sobkasSo what gcc version is a naughty one?

The latest one, 4.9.

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Quoting: Alzarath

Quoting: mrdeathjrOn my case installation works on wine 1.7.19

I was under the assumption it's a problem with Wine. It seems like it's because the Arch Linux package of WIne is compiled with a version of gcc that breaks things. Guess I'll have to wait 'til that's fixed.

So what gcc version is a naughty one?

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Quoting: mrdeathjrOn my case installation works on wine 1.7.19

I was under the assumption it's a problem with Wine. It seems like it's because the Arch Linux package of WIne is compiled with a version of gcc that breaks things. Guess I'll have to wait 'til that's fixed.

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Quoting: AlzarathI've been unable to install Dawngate since 1.7.18 and this didn't fix it, sadly. I think it has something to do with the fact the installer is a .msi. Maybe I'll install it on a virtualbox and see if it runs afterwards. Before all this the game ran fantastically.

On my case installation works on wine 1.7.19

View video on youtube.com

System Specs

Nvidia Drivers 337.19
Linux Mint 16 KDE Edition 32Bit - Kernel 3.11.0.12 PAE
CPU: INTEL Pentium G3220 (Haswell 22nm) 3.0Ghz (Dual-Core) Stock Clock
MEM: 8GB DDR3 1333 (2x4) Patriot value (128 bit dual channel: 21.3 gb/s)
GPU: Zotac Nvidia Geforce GT630 (GK208 28nm: 384 Shaders / 8 ROPS) Zone Edition Passive Cooling 2GB DDR3 1800Mhz a 64Bit (14.4Gb/s)
BOARD: MSI H81M E33

:)

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Quoting: jdubIt's fun...the music is repetitive but there are flamethrowers XD

Thanks, yeah I'm not a musician... I'll try to add more varying tunes for the generic rooms -- certainly room for improvement!

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Love this game. Will it ever see a stable release? I'm not sure it matters. Part of me thinks the distinction between stable and unstable software is meaningless. Stable has never meant bug free or that the game is complete anyway.

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I've been unable to install Dawngate since 1.7.18 and this didn't fix it, sadly. I think it has something to do with the fact the installer is a .msi. Maybe I'll install it on a virtualbox and see if it runs afterwards. Before all this the game ran fantastically.

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Hi! I'd like to try the game out on steam, as I hear it will be improved! My Toribas nick name is the same as my Gaming on linux nicknae, "smiskers"

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