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I done my part :)

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Quoting: "Bumadar, post: 4458, member: 93"Its a bit sad that the HiB guys are looking at none native Linux games as an option, I do fully see where Hamish and his petition are coming from but to be honest I think we passed that junction already.

I think if you have real concerns, it would be worth emailing the Humble Bundle guys and explain them in an honest and rational manner.

QuoteAlso for the "normal" user if I may call them that, in the end what counts is the fact if it works and not how it works and more games on linux is a good thing in the end.

See, this is where it starts to get complicated. I like to hope that the Humble Bundle promotions lead to some level of continued interest in Linux support by developers who have been included and encourage other developers to consider it. It's great that the games included in the bundles are ported, but (hopefully) the real value lies beyond that.

If using wrappers like Wine is seen as an appropriate way to satiate the Linux market by developers, then I think that longer term, this would mean less developer attention for Linux and *less* Linux support (even for "normal" users). Obviously this isn't an issue for Limbo because CodeWeavers are looking after it and making sure it's maintained, but as I say, the bigger picture is stuff that's outside the Humble Bundle promotions.

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http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/stainlessgames/carmageddon-reincarnation/ - not looking so good atm

i have high hopes into this project.
carmageddon was my childhood favourite(my parents didnt see what i was playing damn :))

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You people are sick, you know that? :p

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It would actually be kind of cool if the pedestrians started to fight against the racers, planting traps etc. like in [URL='http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0072856/']Death Race 2000[/URL].

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So close!

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One thing I never understood but was okay with in Twisted Metal. If there's a freakin' car deathmatch going on in a carnival or such, evacuate!

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Limbo doesn't work for me although every native game they've released worked on this computer. I don't think developing a Windows clone for Linux is the way for portability. It's not so hard to make portable code that works. Instead of paying to build Windows clones pay good programmers to make games portable, support opensource portability tools and libs. Windows API is far from being the best for portability, neither would be any clone.

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Its a bit sad that the HiB guys are looking at none native Linux games as an option, I do fully see where Hamish and his petition are coming from but to be honest I think we passed that junction already. On the other hand I am glad they see that AIR is not the way to go and at least the money for making the wine package goes to codeweavers which is a good thing as they are the engine behind wine for sure.

I would prefer native builds of course but I also have to admit that limbo right now runs better/more stable then for example Psychonauts which has been crashing with me a lot during the in game movie starts.

Also for the "normal" user if I may call them that, in the end what counts is the fact if it works and not how it works and more games on linux is a good thing in the end.

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I cant see the problem really they have made it so that it is playable for Linux users, probable more compatible than most "native" ports. If we had a sudden influx of titles that where done in this way, you would have more users willing to make the switch, with a bigger market base we would then be more likely to get our AAA titles with a "native" linux port. If it works its native in my eyes there is no problem here.

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I'm glad you guys got something out of it :D

On one hand, I find the consideration of wrappers to get non-native titles fitting the "cross platform" description a little worrying - once the flood gates are opened, I imagine that any leverage left with which to encourage native support from developers that the Humble Bundle guys have would be greatly diminished (speculation, of course).

On the other hand, I would be pretty excited to see stuff like Q.U.B.E. make it to Humble Bundle audiences.

If only sponsoring cross-platform ports of engines commonly used by indie developers (which no indie developer is going to have the resources to commission) fit under their plans to help fund games.

Also, I heard back from the Bronies about where they allocate their contributions :)


Edit: I have no idea if anybody cares about such things, but assuming that there's an even distribution of Windows payment values (which we know there isn't), I calculate Notch's impact on the Windows average to be +4c. A big fish in an enormously large ocean.

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Actually, Hamish already created that.

If it makes you feel any better whizse, I was very much concerned about that as well. That is why I have worded everything the way I did, why I did a petition instead of just sending an angry email, and why I am doing this in the most organized fashion possible. I wanted someone with a clear head to handle some of this anger. I hope that you can trust me to have one...

But considering Linux users have been a large chunk of their purchase base since the beginning, I do not think this is unreasonable. Especially when you consider those people who emailed Jefferey Rosen asking for free copies for whatever reason, and he actually gave some to them during the first bundle.

This is about gathering data more than anything else, just to prove that enough people actually are upset, and not just a bunch of trolls. I do sincerely hope I am not confused for one, because it is certainly not my intention. I just care.

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Thanks for the article Cheeseness. Your efforts are appreciated.

Though I am really concerned about that UDK comment... :confused:

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Tim Schafers description of a Linux "party" is just awesome :cool:

Oh, and thanks for the summary Cheeseness!

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Apologies to everyone for the length of this post. It was a big effort to try to sum up such an expansive and wide ranging discussion. In the end, I had plenty more I could have said, and a lot of unused quotes.

I promise I'll try to keep future stuff smaller :D

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Personally I'm sitting on the fence, regarding the Wine issue. Not sure if I'm going to sign the petition or not.

It did come up during the last AMA the bundle guys did, so they are very much aware of the controversy. I just worry that Linux users comes off as being demanding or pushy.

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Cool! Coolcoolcool.

I pre-ordered this one ages ago, and was quite disappointed when it turned out that the Linux port was MIA.

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Quite interesting that Psychonauts in the bundle is an honest-to-god port, where as the previously released version for Mac was using using Cider (basically Wine for Mac):
https://twitter.com/icculus/status/208529394946412544

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Hamish already posted about that.

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"Linux Users Sign a Petition Requesting Only Native Games in Humble Bundles

[URL='https://www.humblebundle.com/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]Humble Indie Bundle 5[/URL] was launched recently with five popular and award winning indie games. All these games are supported natively on Linux except one, [URL='http://limbogame.org/']LIMBO[/URL].[/COLOR]

LIMBO doesn't run natively on Linux and instead uses a Wine/CodeWeavers wrapper. It has been a hot topic for debate in last couple of days and Humble Bundle organizers have [URL='http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/humble-team-and-game-developers-share.html'][COLOR=#0b61a4]commented on this[/URL].[/COLOR]
Now an [URL='http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/hib-native/'][COLOR=#0b61a4]online petition[/URL] has been launched for allowing only native Linux games in Humble bundles. This is not an attack on Humble team by any means, but an effort to make a statement that quality standards should be maintained for Linux platform.[/COLOR]

[LEFT]The Petition:[/LEFT]

Linux users have been supporting the Humble Indie Bundle from the beginning and a relation of mutual trust has grown between the people behind the Bundle and the Linux community. Unfortunately, I feel this trust has been violated by the inclusion of a non-native Linux game in the latest Bundle.
This is not merely a complaint about one game included in one Bundle, in this case Limbo. It sets a horrible precedent for the future, encouraging developers to merely put out unoptimized Windows binaries of their games running through a WINE or similar layer merely to con Linux users out of their money. We can not allow this to happen, not to the Humble Indie Bundle.
With all of this said, we do not want to boycott the Bundle as many of the developers involved are still very much deserving of our money, as are many of the charities, and even the Bundle guys themselves are still making an effort. But we can not let this go without at least getting our point across.
So we implore:
1. Linux users to sign this petition. Guarantee that the integrity of the Bundle remains and that you get a fair deal for your money.
2. Mac users to sign this petition. The threat of non-native binaries applies to you just as much as to Linux users.
3. Windows users to sign this petition. Ports often lead to optimizations and fixes, making your gaming experience better.
4. Other developers to sign this petition. After all of the effort some of you have put into your native porting, it is just as much a slap in the face to you.
Also remember that you have a choice as to how your money is distributed - if you feel you have not gotten a fair deal from Limbo, please make sure your money is divided as you feel is right.
This is not meant as an outright attack or a smear on the Bundle itself. It is a merely a reflection of our desire to see the high standards that the Bundles have previously adhered to continue. We are doing this because we care. Please accept this in the manner in which it is given.

Personally I believe that if a game runs well on Linux using Wine with proper optimizations and quality standards, there shouldn't be a problem. Wine is a fantastic platform to use Windows applications and games on Linux and there are many games that run better in Wine than Windows.

What do you think about this? Will LIMBO encourage other developers to release Windows binaries in Humble Bundles claiming that they run on Linux?"
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/06/linux-users-sign-petition-requesting.html

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I've been pretty busy too - I'm happy to share the responsibility ^_^

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Yeah my bad been very busy.

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I originally published the interview last month. We'd planned to post it here since before it was completed, but I didn't really catch up with Liam until yesterday >_<

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I believe I have already read this one before - but yes it is good to see Gameolith doing fairly well. And it is nice to hear the port seems to have done Frozenbyte well too. :)

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Just because there is support offered for the binary does not change the point - the same thing applied to Cedega and Transgaming, or Cider on Mac which has a rather dubious history. Now, because it is Codeweavers it is better than Transgaming as Codeweavers are also not code thieves and actually do support the development of WINE, but it does not change the point that we would prefer native binaries and always got them before.

Other developers had to fulfill that requirement, and some put a lot of work into it. That is just unfair.

Also, Robert, keep in mind you can choose how your money is distributed - so you can still support the developers and charities you want to support. Just make sure you do not support Limbo (or if you a really concerned humble tip) in your price calculations

By the way, I just had an orange surge last night - jumping from 39 signatures to 113. We will see if it will do any good or not.

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It is fair that what is perhaps one of the best bundles is overshadowed by the poor inclusion of Limbo. I understand wanting to defend this action simply because "Humble Bundle" have brought so much to Linux before. I gave Humble Bundle less money this time, and I am saying I would like this not to happen in future. In fact the Cross-Platform is the reason I buy the games.

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Yep, because Google hired them to do so. It was CodeWeavers acting on Google's behalf, not something they did on their own. Similarly, when Google decided to discontinue Picasa, it was Google's decision and not CodeWeavers'.

If I hire a company to build a house for me and then decide to get it knocked down, that company doesn't have any responsibility for that decision.

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"Other corporate sponsors include [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google']Google[/URL], which hired CodeWeavers to fix Wine so [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa']Picasa[/URL] ran well enough to be ported directly to Linux using the same binary as on Windows; Google later paid for improvements to Wine's support for [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop']Adobe Photoshop CS2[/URL]. Wine is also a regular beneficiary of Google's [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Code']Summer of Code[/URL]program.[URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#cite_note-21'][COLOR=#0b0080][[/URL]"[/COLOR]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software)#cite_note-22

CodeWeavers ported [URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picasa']Picasa[/URL] to Linux.

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QuoteWe launched a [URL='http://www.winehq.org/']WINE[/URL]-based version of Picasa for Linux in 2006 as a Google Labs project. As we continue to enhance [URL='http://googlephotos.blogspot.com/2011/12/picasa-39-now-with-google-sharing-and.html']Picasa[/URL], it has become difficult to maintain parity on the Linux version. So today, we’re deprecating Picasa for Linux and will not be maintaining it moving forward. Users who have downloaded and installed older versions of Picasa for Linux can continue to use them, though we won’t be making any further updates.

http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/spring-cleaning-in-spring.html

It's not CodeWeavers discontinuing Picasa for Linux, it's Google.

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CodeWeavers abandoned Google Picasa for Linux:

http://www.webpronews.com/google-codeweavers-pair-on-picasa-port-2006-02

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