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I love LGP and all they done for Linux gaming, but times have changed and they must evolve.
One thing I could not understand....why Ryan Gordon ported much more games than LGP (and newer games) ?
I think LGP should not be porting old games, but as suggested before try to port game that are in production and get funds from Linux sales (40% to them 60% to the developers- or something similar).
Posting good 10 year old games is a bad idea.

They don't have to license the porting and sales rights, that as it seems never covers the costs.
Also they need to choose games that are easier to port, games that use more Linux friendly engines.

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QuoteCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I thought RPM and DEB did not give you the flexibility to decide where to install. Doesn't the package manager put it where it wants to (apart from the user)?

No, the package is more or less like a simple archive you extract to "/".
At least for DEB packages. Not sure about RPM.
This means it's the packager who decides where things go. Of course, distributions might not add certain packages to their official repositories if they don't like the packager's path choices (and/or if it's closed source).

Here's what's in a .deb (simplified list):
-the files to install on the system
-a text file containing a description of the package, its dependencies, version number, etc ("debian/control")
-pre-installation scripts (optional) ("debian/preinst")
-post-installation scripts (optional) ("debian/postinst")
-pre-removal scripts (optional) ("debian/prerm")
-post-removal scripts (optional) ("debian/postrm")

The pre/post-installation/removal scripts are usually just necessary for packages with daemons, etc. Games shouldn't need them. (apart from update-menus or similar in postinst, but this is automatically taken care of by debhelper scripts while building the package if I remember correctly. Haven't packaged for a while, but [URL='https://bitbucket.org/Knitter/puzzlemoppet']need to get back to it soon[/URL]... ;) )

You can easily extract the contents of a .deb with the following commands:
dpkg -x $DEB .
dpkg -e $DEB .

My take on the paths:
-closed source things (or anything self-compiled or from third-party repositories) into /opt (or other non-standard directory in /) or somewhere in /home
-open-source games into /usr/games

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Quoting: "whizse, post: 5011, member: 126"It's certainly less bad than some alternatives, but it's still DRM.

but so is steam which we are all exited about :)

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 5007, member: 6"They do have to up their game now. It is not just them playing in the sandbox anymore.

agree, but that is something totally different then writing pieces about them still being invalid and create the mood he does where people fanaticly want LGP to go bust.

Quoting: "Hamish, post: 5007, member: 6"But I do agree that Larabel does tend to be a bit trollish - but he is like that about everything. :rolleyes:

its more then trollish, its like doing his best to make a company look bad or irelevant

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Quoting: "gbudny, post: 5010"Ridiculous DRM? This is a joke?

When I already own several of the games they sell with no DRM restrictions from another service, the joke happens to be on them. No matter how benevolent they try to make their DRM, it is still a bad practice and it did bite people who purchased LGP titles during their now infamous server outage. I personally do not find it to be defensible.

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Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 5015, member: 122"The LSB (based on POSIX) also governs what stuff should live where, doesn't it?

Absolutely. That's what I was getting at when I said LSB. Either put it where it's supposed to go (according to LSB), or let the user decide.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought RPM and DEB did not give you the flexibility to decide where to install. Doesn't the package manager put it where it wants to (apart from the user)?

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 5009, member: 6"I do in general dislike registering games with my package manager, yes. I am also unsure how you think that if a company only releases a DEB version of their game (or an RPM for that matter) it would not be restrictive. All the LSB provides is a standard set of libraries and operating standards. It does not make it so that one package format will work on any distro. That is what I was arguing about.

Providing DEB or RPM packages doesn't *need* to be restrictive at all. They're just archives with little bit of metadata that tells the package manager what it depends on and how to remove it. As I understand it, the actual content of the packages don't need to differ at all. Of course, I'm not talking about exclusively providing one or the other...

If the app is self-contained enough to be unpacked from a .tar.gz or a .run, I don't see why that itself couldn't be put into a package manager friendly archive in exactly that form as well.

Wolfire's way of handling it is interesting. Their installer gives the option to build a package manager friendly archive appropriate for your system on the fly. It takes a long time to build an RPM (I haven't tried it on a DEB based system), but it's pretty new and hopefully will be better over time.

The LSB (based on POSIX) also governs what stuff should live where, doesn't it?

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Oh, and to get back to the topic, I would gladly support LGP, but they really need to do a full 180 before I start throwing money their way.

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It's certainly less bad than some alternatives, but it's still DRM.

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 5007, member: 6"One thing LGP has always been good for has been support of their old games. My only concern is that when they have released updates they have often bundled them with the new DRM system. I really hope that they remove that - I can not really cheer them on until they do. LGP does also have the problem that it's competition has gotten stiffer. I mean, Desura is directly offering several titles that LGP has (Postal 2, Shadowgrounds, Shadowgrounds: Survivor) with updated Linux builds for far less than LGP is asking for, not to mention they ship without the ridiculous DRM measures.

Ridiculous DRM? This is a joke?

"Some features includes:

LGP copy protection does not require internet connection to install or play the game.
This system does not require user to keep the disc inside the CD drive while playing games.

This system enables users to install the game on multiple systems (as there is not a limited number of activations), while also discouraging sharing by noting that any user who has access to the owner's LGP account credentials could potentially lock the owner out of their own game.

Owners of a game license can transfer the licence to someone else, download a replacement disc image and allow people to see that the licence is valid if they buy your game. Owners can retrieve lost keys and forgotten passwords. Buyers can check to see if they are buying a game with a valid license.[URL='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Game_Publishing#cite_note-38'][COLOR=#0645ad][39][/URL][/COLOR]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Game_Publishing

They never want make bad DRM for Linux. For example:

Some features includes:
copy protection require internet connection to install or play the game.
This system require user to keep the disc inside the CD drive while playing games.
This system enables users to install the game on only one systems (as there is a limited number of activations), while also discouraging sharing by noting that any user who has access to the owner's LGP account credentials could potentially lock the owner out of their own game.

Owners of a game license can't transfer the licence to someone else and they can't download a replacement disc image and not allow people to see that the licence is valid if they buy your game. Owners can't retrieve lost keys and forgotten passwords. Buyers can't check to see if they are buying a game with a valid license."

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Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 5002, member: 122"This is why the LSB (Linux Standard Base) exists and why it is important to respect it where possible. I don't really understand why installing to LSB friendly locations would make users fearful of being locked to a specific distro though (or were you just saying that you dislike the idea of games registering themselves with the package manager?).

I do in general dislike registering games with my package manager, yes. I am also unsure how you think that if a company only releases a DEB version of their game (or an RPM for that matter) it would not be restrictive. All the LSB provides is a standard set of libraries and operating standards. It does not make it so that one package format will work on any distro. That is what I was arguing about.

Quoting: "Cheeseness, post: 5002, member: 122"This is something that the application should be providing for though, not something that users should have to configure themselves.

Agreed.

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It is only on Unity - what did they expect? It looks pretty good to me.

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One thing LGP has always been good for has been support of their old games. My only concern is that when they have released updates they have often bundled them with the new DRM system. I really hope that they remove that - I can not really cheer them on until they do.

LGP does also have the problem that it's competition has gotten stiffer. I mean, Desura is directly offering several titles that LGP has (Postal 2, Shadowgrounds, Shadowgrounds: Survivor) with updated Linux builds for far less than LGP is asking for, not to mention they ship without the ridiculous DRM measures. There is also the fact that Indie games and LGP are often in the same niche (since LGP ported a lot of older Indie games), meaning that they are facing a lot more competition from in-house Linux developers than they ever did before. They do have to up their game now. It is not just them playing in the sandbox anymore.

But I do agree that Larabel does tend to be a bit trollish - but he is like that about everything. :rolleyes:

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got the same mail and was pleasantly surprised by it :)

Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 5005, member: 1"Other websites have pulled them up (Phoronix..) about if they are valid or not anymore because of Steam coming, I say yes of course they are they do Port games to Linux after all, games have to first be ported to be sold remember.

That post on Phoronix... I am not sure what his issue is with LGP but he has been coming down on them for while now, every few months he does this. The post made no sense, because Valve comes to linux that does not mean other publishers are irrelevant, Valve been on windows for ages, does not mean other publisher are irrelevant on windows.

The bashing Phoronix does of LGP and the mood he creates with it (if you read the posts, some people even feel LGP "must" go bust and that it would be a good thing) is simply bad and uncalled for and makes me wonder if there is a personal issue between Larabel and LGP.

LGP done a lot for linux gaming when nobody gave a damn, they spend a lot of time, money and resources porting games, maybe they not the newest games but that has more to do with other publisher not seeing a market and thus not letting LGP close to their windows source code to port.

On the good news side though, you can now follow LGP on Desura !!!

http://www.desura.com/company/linux-game-publishing so press the tracking button :)

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also find it pretty good looking but am amazed at the critique you read on some of the other websites (and the facebook page) about it, I guess "we" not that spoiled yet ;)

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this looks so flipping cool. i can't wait to play it!

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Quoting: "Hamish, post: 4998, member: 6"I have to agree with Liam on this one - I dislike games packaged in RPM or DEB packages as I like to keep my games and my system seperate. Going other routes also means that developers do not have to worry about making multiple packages and that end-users do not have to fear being locked to certain distros.

This is why the LSB (Linux Standard Base) exists and why it is important to respect it where possible. I don't really understand why installing to LSB friendly locations would make users fearful of being locked to a specific distro though (or were you just saying that you dislike the idea of games registering themselves with the package manager?).

QuoteAlso, correct me if I am wrong, but if I installed Desura to a system directory (such as /usr/local/games or /opt or whatever) would that not mean that it could be used by everyone? Or alternatively, if I did install it in my home directory but granted other users the permission to read (or even write) to the Desura directory, would that not also allow other users to access it?

You are correct, I believe (I haven't tested this though). Desura doesn't give you an option for this kind of installation though (in fact, the installer doesn't ask you where to install at all - it just installs into whatever folder the installer was launched from).

This is something that the application should be providing for though, not something that users should have to configure themselves.

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Fixed media not showing up on the portal btw :)

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That's a good looking Wasteland :D

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I have to agree with Liam on this one - I dislike games packaged in RPM or DEB packages as I like to keep my games and my system seperate. Going other routes also means that developers do not have to worry about making multiple packages and that end-users do not have to fear being locked to certain distros.

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but if I installed Desura to a system directory (such as /usr/local/games or /opt or whatever) would that not mean that it could be used by everyone? Or alternatively, if I did install it in my home directory but granted other users the permission to read (or even write) to the Desura directory, would that not also allow other users to access it?

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Quoting: "motorsep, post: 4990, member: 154"Progress is pretty slow as such art takes quite some time to make, unfortunately.

but it does improve the 1st impression of people a lot when they start the game :)

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It should either follow the LSB, or do what I did - and use a distribution-independent installer that lets users to choose where to install it.

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Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4993, member: 1"Same as the way Desura does it though? It's just my personal preference.

To my knowledge, the current Desura client doesn't support multiple users and would need duplicate copies of games by default. This isn't ideal IMO.

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I have emailed them to find out if it will be a steam only release for Linux, awaiting reply.

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Same as the way Desura does it though? It's just my personal preference.

Will be interesting to see then if it will run on my intel HD4000 (the best intel does at the moment their latest generation) since my nvidia chip is inaccessable right now.

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Quoting: "liamdawe, post: 4981, member: 1"I am also in the no .deb camp, i prefer all games to be in my /home

It's probably best if that doesn't happen, given that Linux is meant to be a multi-user OS.

On another note, someone in my LUG pointed me towards this, which seems to be written by somebody involved with Mesa driver development.
http://www.paranormal-entertainment.com/idr/blog/posts/2012-07-19T18:54:37Z-The_zombies_cometh/

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Added more images to the blog page (the link is in the first post).

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Progress is pretty slow as such art takes quite some time to make, unfortunately.

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looks nice..
can't wait to see some good progress.

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thats damn nice..i just bought the third one from steam summer sale..
unfortunately it didnt want to work for me... so waiting for native version then

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