Hi people. As many of you are aware, I've spent the last month or so slaving over hot research for a new article on Humble Bundle stuff.
With the recent non-cross-platform Humble Bundle promotions, now seemed like a good time to try to get a big picture view of cross-platform support across all promotions and see how everything fits together in context.
In this article, I look at platform debuts and existing cross platform titles, internal and external porting, non-cross-platform titles, and post-bundle availability.
If you've ever been interested in comparing the number of Humble Bundle Linux debuts against Mac debuts (58 vs 23), look no farther. If you've ever wanted to know who ported what, you can find that here (no surprises, icculus and urkle are responsible for porting 32 titles between them). If you've ever wanted to know how many Humble Bundle titles were ported internally (over half), that's there too.
http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humbleStats3.php
Enjoy!
Note: This article is over 7,500 words long, so it's small by my standards :D
I try to steer clear of pushing my own opinions, but since almost everybody I've shown this to has asked me what I thought of the THQ bundle, there's also this. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
With the recent non-cross-platform Humble Bundle promotions, now seemed like a good time to try to get a big picture view of cross-platform support across all promotions and see how everything fits together in context.
In this article, I look at platform debuts and existing cross platform titles, internal and external porting, non-cross-platform titles, and post-bundle availability.
If you've ever been interested in comparing the number of Humble Bundle Linux debuts against Mac debuts (58 vs 23), look no farther. If you've ever wanted to know who ported what, you can find that here (no surprises, icculus and urkle are responsible for porting 32 titles between them). If you've ever wanted to know how many Humble Bundle titles were ported internally (over half), that's there too.
http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humbleStats3.php
Enjoy!
Note: This article is over 7,500 words long, so it's small by my standards :D
I try to steer clear of pushing my own opinions, but since almost everybody I've shown this to has asked me what I thought of the THQ bundle, there's also this. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
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No idea about Ronimo.
As far as GSB is concerned, to put it bluntly: cliffski doesn't give a hoot.
[URL='http://positech.co.uk/forums/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6842#p53390']Mandatory post in Positech forums.[/URL]
And you're supposed to put up with that and kindly stfu.
Well, he did supposedly help with it. But I can't say I am particularily fond of the GSB devs.
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THIS is the main reason why the THQ bundle was such a shock, because frankly things are becoming a bit of mess, so giving people less of a reason to take us seriously is really distressing. This is not to say that we have not been given a lot, but the half-hearted here are really beginning to give the committed a bad name by association. Not all of this is Humble's fault, but if they were a school there would definitely be concerns about them sending out this amount of delinquents, to coin a phrase...
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Well at least some of the titles are going to be worked on, considering HIB now has a full time Linux porter maybe they will get him to fix up older ones?
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Well at least some of the titles are going to be worked on, considering HIB now has a full time Linux porter maybe they will get him to fix up older ones?
Hm, could someone shoot him an email? It'd be nice to know whether his going to fix up older ports or just the ones he said he'll work on. Either way, it will surely be better in the future because of this.
Btw., anyone have any idea what Flibit's lolno is? Or did he drop any hints about it? I'd love to know what is it since he's so secretive about it.
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Cheeseness Jan 2, 2013
I'm liking where this discussion is headed.
PCGamingWiki.com might be a decent place for keeping track of the status of Humble titles. I'd be keen to help get the word out about such a thing (and try to make sure it's noticed by the Humble Bundle guys).
Hamish makes a really important point which I hadn't pushed so strongly in my article - the recent Windows only promotions (moreso the THQ bundle than the AF promotion as that was a) very clearly distinct from other stuff, and b) selling a look at Double Fine's prototyping workflows instead of just games) can be seen to be compound with already outstanding issues.
The other side of the coin is that it's up to the developers to decide whether to look after their Mac/Linux ports or not, and it's obvious that for some devs, once they disembark the Humble money train, Mac and Linux are no longer a priority.
How much pressure/control should Humble try to exert over developers in that sort of situation? Could this be solved through better title selection? Are there ways to just make supporting ports more attractive? Are developers hearing about the problems with their ports? These are all questions that I hope the Humble Bundle guys are continually asking themselves.
The developer pretty much mentioned it on Twitter a month or so back, so if you hunt around, you could probably work it out.
Edit: It may also be worth noting that there seems to be a bit of a correlation between titles that have outstanding issues and developers who didn't respond to me whilst I was researching for the article.
PCGamingWiki.com might be a decent place for keeping track of the status of Humble titles. I'd be keen to help get the word out about such a thing (and try to make sure it's noticed by the Humble Bundle guys).
Hamish makes a really important point which I hadn't pushed so strongly in my article - the recent Windows only promotions (moreso the THQ bundle than the AF promotion as that was a) very clearly distinct from other stuff, and b) selling a look at Double Fine's prototyping workflows instead of just games) can be seen to be compound with already outstanding issues.
The other side of the coin is that it's up to the developers to decide whether to look after their Mac/Linux ports or not, and it's obvious that for some devs, once they disembark the Humble money train, Mac and Linux are no longer a priority.
How much pressure/control should Humble try to exert over developers in that sort of situation? Could this be solved through better title selection? Are there ways to just make supporting ports more attractive? Are developers hearing about the problems with their ports? These are all questions that I hope the Humble Bundle guys are continually asking themselves.
Btw., anyone have any idea what Flibit's lolno is? Or did he drop any hints about it? I'd love to know what is it since he's so secretive about it.
The developer pretty much mentioned it on Twitter a month or so back, so if you hunt around, you could probably work it out.
Edit: It may also be worth noting that there seems to be a bit of a correlation between titles that have outstanding issues and developers who didn't respond to me whilst I was researching for the article.
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Hm, seems like PCG would be a good idea for this, but what info should we exactly include there? Status of ports, dlc support?
If anyone else is up for this, great, I'm definitely going to have a go at this soon. But there's a different problem entirely first - it doesn't have page for most of those games, so we'll need to do that first as well.
Hm, I can't find it, is it on flibit's twitter or someone else's?
If anyone else is up for this, great, I'm definitely going to have a go at this soon. But there's a different problem entirely first - it doesn't have page for most of those games, so we'll need to do that first as well.
Hm, I can't find it, is it on flibit's twitter or someone else's?
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Interesting info and ideas.
Exactly the same happens on Windows when sales slow down for a title, updates slow down too. Some developers aren't selling their games out of the bundles, so their interest on updating is zero. Even the games being sold after the bundle won't make enough sales to make it count. There are a few devs really committed to their users that will make updates no matter how new sales go, but this happens on any platform, I guess.
Another issue that doesn't get much talk is localization. That's important in some countries. Even if I'd like to get some games for some people, or just hook them up I can't because the web is English-only and the lack of localization on several games.
How much pressure/control should Humble try to exert over developers in that sort of situation? Could this be solved through better title selection? Are there ways to just make supporting ports more attractive? Are developers hearing about the problems with their ports? These are all questions that I hope the Humble Bundle guys are continually asking themselves.
Exactly the same happens on Windows when sales slow down for a title, updates slow down too. Some developers aren't selling their games out of the bundles, so their interest on updating is zero. Even the games being sold after the bundle won't make enough sales to make it count. There are a few devs really committed to their users that will make updates no matter how new sales go, but this happens on any platform, I guess.
Another issue that doesn't get much talk is localization. That's important in some countries. Even if I'd like to get some games for some people, or just hook them up I can't because the web is English-only and the lack of localization on several games.
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There's some truth to that... But OTOH
* You have to pay translators
* You can't be sure that they're good
Cost and uncertainty. I've been re-translating here and there for... well, zilch, whereas the devs had paid the original localization (and I won't go into the details or this post is going to become a dictionary of insults).
You can't say you'll find good translators working for cheap or free just by lifting the stone at your feet, unfortunately.
Then, yes, there are devs who aren't interested in that business. At all. Even if it would make perfect sense for them (see Runic).
Then there's the ridiculous kind. See Mojang for the details - where you release your next update when a moron has translated "nether" by "fluffy" in his target language. And I'm not even kidding.
* You have to pay translators
* You can't be sure that they're good
Cost and uncertainty. I've been re-translating here and there for... well, zilch, whereas the devs had paid the original localization (and I won't go into the details or this post is going to become a dictionary of insults).
You can't say you'll find good translators working for cheap or free just by lifting the stone at your feet, unfortunately.
Then, yes, there are devs who aren't interested in that business. At all. Even if it would make perfect sense for them (see Runic).
Then there's the ridiculous kind. See Mojang for the details - where you release your next update when a moron has translated "nether" by "fluffy" in his target language. And I'm not even kidding.
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Cheeseness Jan 2, 2013
If anyone else is up for this, great, I'm definitely going to have a go at this soon. But there's a different problem entirely first - it doesn't have page for most of those games, so we'll need to do that first as well.
Fantastic. I'd be keen to contribute (and cite it in future writings).
Hm, I can't find it, is it on flibit's twitter or someone else's?
flibit's tagged in it, but it was the developer who tweeted, I believe. It was also discussed elsewhere (but I can't remember now).
There's some truth to that... But OTOH
* You have to pay translators
* You can't be sure that they're good
The thing is though, the Humble Bundle guys are probably in a prime position to assemble a translation team (in house, external, community driven, etc. - whatever method used, the ongoing/regular nature would help bring responsibility/accountability that could ensure decent translations) that they could offer/contract out to bundle participants. It would be pretty neat to see them raise the bar for indie games a bit by encouraging/requiring participants to have a minimum set of translations.
Waveform's translations were crowdsourced and that turned out really well by all reports.
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Can't really say about Waveform, I got it on Steam, and it looks to be English only.
That's usually the first thing I check: the French localization. And it is a very uncommon occurence that I leave it on (without going through it myself if I have the time and the game looks good enough for my daughters). Hopefully they update the game and it is a nice surprise indeed, but I certainly won't bet my life on that... You'd be surprised how people are content with crappy, verbatim translations (and how devs sometimes don't seem to give a hoot when you notify them of a sloppy job).
But I could tell you a truckload of stories. See Harvest: Massive Encounter for example. Over 10 mistakes, typos and horrors (not errors, horrors) just on the title screen.
That's usually the first thing I check: the French localization. And it is a very uncommon occurence that I leave it on (without going through it myself if I have the time and the game looks good enough for my daughters). Hopefully they update the game and it is a nice surprise indeed, but I certainly won't bet my life on that... You'd be surprised how people are content with crappy, verbatim translations (and how devs sometimes don't seem to give a hoot when you notify them of a sloppy job).
But I could tell you a truckload of stories. See Harvest: Massive Encounter for example. Over 10 mistakes, typos and horrors (not errors, horrors) just on the title screen.
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Oh god, I tried to help with translating Waveform but it's a google document and it was painful. Why can't they just provide nice potfiles? Bah, I never got a reply from them anyway...
Anyway, if Humble were to provide such an effort it would be indeed great, but only if they either made a new system for translation (ridiculous idea) or used something like the Launchpad module or that other thing that Virtaal is part of the project.
I think I'll start doing that stuff on PCG next week or so. But I'm still engrossed with the other project of theirs.
Anyway, if Humble were to provide such an effort it would be indeed great, but only if they either made a new system for translation (ridiculous idea) or used something like the Launchpad module or that other thing that Virtaal is part of the project.
I think I'll start doing that stuff on PCG next week or so. But I'm still engrossed with the other project of theirs.
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The thing is though, the Humble Bundle guys are probably in a prime position to assemble a translation team (in house, external, community driven, etc. - whatever method used, the ongoing/regular nature would help bring responsibility/accountability that could ensure decent translations) that they could offer/contract out to bundle participants. It would be pretty neat to see them raise the bar for indie games a bit by encouraging/requiring participants to have a minimum set of translations.
Waveform's translations were crowdsourced and that turned out really well by all reports.
I'd like that to happen. I think they could reach more people in more countries and provide a valuable and reliable service to indies.
Back to the lack of support issue, they should be more strict about quality at launch time, specially when the port isn't done by the HB team. We can't live on promises that games will be fixed some time. I assume the HB team doesn't lie when they say they'll eventually fix their ports.
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I'd rather not. I make no assumption as to what isn't in my hands. Just like I don't get my hopes up too fast after backing a project on Kickstarter or Indiegogo. Their having the means to fix it has nothing to do with their will, ability or time to fix it. Unfortunately.
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The thing is though, the Humble Bundle guys are probably in a prime position to assemble a translation team (in house, external, community driven, etc. - whatever method used, the ongoing/regular nature would help bring responsibility/accountability that could ensure decent translations) that they could offer/contract out to bundle participants. It would be pretty neat to see them raise the bar for indie games a bit by encouraging/requiring participants to have a minimum set of translations.
Definitely a good idea. humblebundle.fr anyone? ;)
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Still that would require some kind of deal with HB. And probably access to the sources for quite a bunch of games, which means some kind of deal with the devs too. And publishers where applicable. Can't say I don't like the sound of it though. xD
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Cheeseness Jan 3, 2013
Back to the lack of support issue, they should be more strict about quality at launch time, specially when the port isn't done by the HB team.
Since urkle only recently became an employee of Humble Bundle (as I understand it), then only the titles from the last bundle would fit that description.
I don't think it's wise to put responsibility on the porters. Ultimate responsibility has to lie with the developers - if they themselves aren't interested, updates won't happen. Post bundle, they're the ones calling the shots, handing out the money, and setting the general attitude. Contractors generally don't have a lot of control over what they do and don't do.
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Since urkle only recently became an employee of Humble Bundle (as I understand it), then only the titles from the last bundle would fit that description.
I don't think it's wise to put responsibility on the porters. Ultimate responsibility has to lie with the developers - if they themselves aren't interested, updates won't happen. Post bundle, they're the ones calling the shots, handing out the money, and setting the general attitude. Contractors generally don't have a lot of control over what they do and don't do.
If that's how it works then there's more reasons to be more strict about quality and bugs being fixed in time, they (the developers) should be held accountable for that while possible.
My guess was that some ports could be somewhat licensed to the HB. I'd like to see that for titles sold in the bundle from devs not interested in our platform and keep selling them after the bundle. Maybe I'm going too far.
EDIT: Minor clarification.
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Cheeseness Jan 3, 2013
If that's how it works then there's more reasons to be more strict about quality and bugs being fixed in time, they should be held accountable for that while possible.
Not really. As I said before, I haven't seen a Humble contract, but I am certain that it's the developers who would be signing off on a finished port (so again that's their responsibility).
In case it's not clear, I'm saying it's inappropriate for us as customers to have expectations of porters. They still have obligations to do good work according to their contracts, but that's an internal thing between them and the developers, not us. If a developer's not happy with the work that's been done, they're always free to follow up whatever recourse there might be and get somebody else in to do the job properly, so (for us) the developers are still to blame even if a porter did a poor job.
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Sorry, I was always referring to the developers. I only mentioned the HB team because I think they could take over the developers in the ports they do, but it's not that they are required to. I hope I haven't messed it up even more.
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Cheeseness Jan 3, 2013
Sorry, I was always referring to the developers. I only mentioned the HB team because I think they could take over the developers in the ports they do, but it's not that they are required to. I hope I haven't messed it up even more.
Ah, that makes more sense ^_^
It'll be interesting to see how things play out with urkle being onboard now.
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