Linux Gaming DRM Free promises: Do they stack up?

@s_d (Trust you've been well...missed ya). You've explained that the Desura client is GPL3, not that is DRM free. We all get so used to believing that Open Source = Free or Open Source = No hidden strings attached. s_d from what I know is an advanced coder and he might be able/willing to examine the source.Most of us are so busy with our everyday stuff that we don't have time to personally examine the code of everything we  install. We often rely (sometimes too much) on other people to be the "Watchmen". While Desura client may be GPL3, I've yet to see verification that it doesn't leave a trail of breadcrumbs when it is uninstalled. The biggest example of Open Source != Hidden Agendea free is the later versions of Ubuntu, which sell out the users to Amazon on Desktop searches (i.e. it sends the results to Amazon without telling you openly...a MS Game where the options to change it is "there" but they don't openly tell you that). Ubuntu has actually used open source and trust to dupe people into sending data to Amazon unwittingly. (They probably tell you in hidden fine print). I actually tried Desura once, but couldn't download anything without a client. So I left it alone. While Desura is probably better than Steam, they still require a client (as far as I could tell) to get your purchase. Why require a client if its truly DRM free?

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: s_d

Quoting: jlibster because all require you to install a client

Wrong.  Desura does not.  I just explained that. :-(

Indeed it's up to the developers of the games if they have stand alone downloads, client downloads or both on Desura.

It's also worth noting that we can (within Desura) vote with our wallets, as well.  We can choose to further support developers who refuse to "wine-wrap" in favor of native Linux builds, and those who offer stand-alone downloads.  Still, no other platform has that capability.

Further, as I mentioned, the desktop client is GPL3, and hosted on github (called "Desurium").  Why not go read the sources and see how "invasive" the "tracking" really is?  Why not hook up a "don't track me, bro" option in the settings dialogues, and build one's own binary executable desktop client?  Nobody is stopping us! :-)

Oh, and to be clear so there is no confusion. When I downloaded my games from gog.com I didn't use any "installer" to download. I did direct downloads from their servers via my web browser once I've logged into the website. The only way I will trust a 3rd party software seller is if I can download the program I purchased using my clean browser (after logging in to establish my session) or sftp/ftp client. Anything else, requires an additional component  and I don't have the time to double check the code (even if it open source which is an big improvement) to be sure no "bonuses" are there. Call me paranoid, but its served me well. My XP gaming machine still boots in under 10 seconds.

Quoting: jlibsterI actually tried Desura once, but couldn't download anything without a client. So I left it alone. While Desura is probably better than Steam, they still require a client (as far as I could tell) to get your purchase. Why require a client if its truly DRM free?

Which game?  Are you sure?

Nearly all of mine do not require the desktop client at all.  And, I only say "nearly" because I quit looking after ~20 games in my library (all of which have stand-alone installers) and assume that there must be one somewhere, but I'm still at the office now, and haven't the time to check every one of them right this moment.

Point taken that not everybody is going to scour the code with a fine-toothed comb.  GPL3 does not equal DRM-free, but it does equal transparency.  We have to rely on our community to look, themselves, come to a consensus, and report the results to everyone else.  Then, we have to rely on them to contribute back to the project, and help "steward" a proper path forward.

I'll take a 2nd look since I know you are "hard core" but when I tried before I honestly couldn't find a way around not having a Desura client installed. Spent 30 minutes looking before I gave up (and threw away ~$10). I'll ask them as well. Don't get me wrong, as I said open source is a BIG improvement, but people like Ubuntu have taken advantage of trust. In the USA, their new health care bill while it looks cool on paper has so many ways to hide the restrictions (I've been told by an leading expert) it is still possible to befuddle/confuse people into getting plans they cost them more, give less than they need, and limited requirement for transparency in the language. Ironically it was LEGAL to give someone a health care plan that effectively had no coverage until late last year around October or November when that loophole was filled in. In credit card agreements in the USA we all know the story about "trees hidden in a forest" and even in programming, I remember reviewing code that was written with variable names nobody could understand (we discovered the original coder was hiding a backdoor so we rewrote the code). I guess we in IT will have to start becoming lawyers as well, because we potentially have more tricks to hide things than they do. ;-) (Does GPL3 have any stipulations on clarity of code style? Hmmm....)

I'm just curious;  which game was it?  About how long ago was it that you bought a game?

It may well be one that doesn't have a stand-alone download, but most do.  Also, it may well have been before the feature was introduced!  Desura customers (and some devs) asked for the feature, and they listened (it also lets them support Mac by offering standalone Mac downloads... in fact, the desktop client hasn't been ported to Mac, so the entire catalog of Mac games is essentially GOG-style).

I see no reason for you to log into an account you've dispensed with, when you could just tell us what game it was, and we could check on it for you.  Why waste your time further?

If there is a stand-alone download, we can walk you through downloading it without the desktop client.

I am not "hardcore", but I do not accept GOG as an alternative.  They do not to Linux, so I won't buy from them.  Why reward that business decision?  Desura has some stand-alone downloads (GOG-style).  That immediately elevates the service above the others (to me, personally).

@s_d "hard core" meant "programmer level linux user" so I'm not sure what you thought I meant.  (I'm bad at using these phrases). You mentioned "we could check". I honestly don't remember which game it was right now. It was a number of months ago.Something to do with a promo they did  I think. I don't suppose you work for Desura by any chance? Anyway, I'll take a look later as I'm in the middle of several things at the moment. (I rarely have time to play my purchases these days ironically). To be clear and on the record, I never said gog.com was an alternative for either Desura or Steam in terms of Linux gaming. I merely used their default download model  (no client required) as an example I'd like to see others follow (and if Desura does, great, first I've heard...) I've been sending "hate" mail at gog.com for ignoring the Linux community for some time (and I'll keep doing so). So gog.com is not an alternative for Linux users (yet). Absolutely not. It has one good point (have to check Desura again) that I haven't seen others follow yet who have Linux options.

*sigh*

NO, I don't work for Desura.  I can e-mail a developer like anyone else.  I am not a shill.  The Desura guys (there are ~4 of them), do respond to my e-mails directly on multiple occasions, including the founder, Scott.  Not always, but it has happened multiple times.

Be aware that if your information is old or out of date, or in fact if there is a stand-alone download for that game which you missed, then misinformation could hurt the hard work of the volunteer community contributing to Desura and it's open-source community around the desktop client (for example, Cheese, an editor and frequent contributor here, is quite involved in the "Desurium" client as a community member).  If you're still correct, and your game is "desktop client only"... well, maybe they'll just refund you the $10 if you ask (???).  I have only beta-tested the client, and purchased games.  I feel strongly about supporting them because nobody else offers their users a choice of a desktop client to keep games quickly, easily, and efficiently in sync and up-to-date, as well as offering direct downloads off the website.

Yes, I wish all games had both options, but this is extra work for the developer, and irate gamers rarely ask developers for these sorts of important changes.  Every time the developer patches a bug or adds content to a game, they can create a patch with (basically) the differences, and the desktop client only fetches what is out of date (and does a final checksum over the game files to ensure they are intact).  This saves a great deal of money and bandwidth for our friends in other countries with metered bandwidth (and quite a few in North America as well).  So, what some see as nefarious, I see as a potential driver of efficiency.  If it is done correctly, and with respect for the user/customer.

That said... I do, myself, keep copies of the stand alone downloads.

A thorough privacy/security reviewer for the Desurium code-base could be a welcome addition to the community.  I would do so myself, but instead, I'm busy working to bring more cool, niche, indie games to Linux.  I hope that somebody steps up, and has the credibility to do so, so that in the future, Desura doesn't have to be branded as "DRM as bad as Origin", which it seems that some are bent on implying.

A "Shill"?...sorry I have no idea what that means.(If it mean an employee who is out there help PR..no didn't mean that guess I'm not up to date on the language these days) As I said before, I'll take another look. I wasn't terribly concerned about the $10 and didn't ask for a refund. Experience comes at a price and its not like they denied me my purchase;I just didn't want to install anything I didn't ask for and figured 'my bad' for not double checking. You feel Desura is worth your support and I've read enough of your comment to not dismiss what are probably valid reasons. I Believe in options and not adding things to my machines they don't need.And most people don't have the time/patience to even consider any of this. Anyway, I hope these issues gets the guys and Steam and gog.com (may not apply to Desura) to take actions that will make it easier to just purchase our games worry free. I would LOVE to be  fan of theirs as there selection for Linux is excellent. I've mentioned them to gog.com in my arguments to get them to stop ignoring use. We'll see how game developers and vendors react to these discussions...

Take some advice jlibster - when you are in a hole, try and stop digging. ;)

As someone who has willingly opted out of using Steam, I am surprised to be the first one to mention that it is only games using Steamworks that are tied to the Steam client, which Project: Eternity has already confirmed to use with regards to its Steam version. So if you see a game with achievements support, steamplay, and other such miscellania, it is going to be tied to the Steam client. If it does not boast these features, the game itself is probably DRM free.

As for the whole platform war here, I must admit to Desura being my favourite for most of the reasons s_d described. No games depend on the client for anything other than potentially purchasing and the first download, but even that is rare thanks to the Purchased Downloads feature.

That being said, there are still a few problems I have with it - namely the fact that some games are being sold without proper labelling for their independent DRM (see Majesty) and the fact they willingly sell games that consist of nothing more than Steam keys, which just galls me. And I am not talking about merely having the Steam key as a side option with the main download as is the case with Postal 2, but having it as the only option, such as with Serious Sam 3 (although at least then it was clearly marked).

Gameolith suffers from that last one as well, although it seems more appropriate for them to be doing it somehow. Seems less like an assault on their own dignity.