Josh Klint of Leadwerks emailed me to ask me to shout out his new Kickstarter aimed at bringing Leadwerks over to Linux, unlike Unity3D the editor itself from Leadwerks will be on Linux as well enabled you to make games on Linux for Linux!
I am not personally up to scratch on Leadwerks but the more I look into it the more I think it will be useful to have!
It notes that you will be able to compile your code to work on Windows and Mac as well so you can push anything you make with it to all 3 of the major desktop Operating Systems, sounds even better!
He is looking to raise a total of $20,000 so it's not even a very high target in comparison.
Some games that have been made with Leadwerks:
You need to fork out at least $100 to get yourself a copy, to put things into comparison a Unity license is $1,500. The only drawback I can see is you have to pay $200 to get a copy for Linux, Mac and Windows but again still far far cheaper than Unity so in comparison still good value.
I may be comparing it too much to Unity but comparing it to the competition is the best way to see how it all stacks up, so far the fact that it's far cheaper is a big tick in my book.
They are a proven company too since their products have already been out for some time now, it's not like backing something brand new that might not come out.
Certainly seems like a complete no brainer to me, includes everything you need to make a game!
It's also needing Greenlight votes if you like the look of it!
What do you all make of it? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
I am not personally up to scratch on Leadwerks but the more I look into it the more I think it will be useful to have!
QuoteWe have a complete visual editor that handles all aspects of the game development process, and we’re porting it to run natively on Linux. We’re using GTK for the user interface, so our editor will look and feel like a native Linux application.
It notes that you will be able to compile your code to work on Windows and Mac as well so you can push anything you make with it to all 3 of the major desktop Operating Systems, sounds even better!
He is looking to raise a total of $20,000 so it's not even a very high target in comparison.
Some games that have been made with Leadwerks:
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You need to fork out at least $100 to get yourself a copy, to put things into comparison a Unity license is $1,500. The only drawback I can see is you have to pay $200 to get a copy for Linux, Mac and Windows but again still far far cheaper than Unity so in comparison still good value.
I may be comparing it too much to Unity but comparing it to the competition is the best way to see how it all stacks up, so far the fact that it's far cheaper is a big tick in my book.
They are a proven company too since their products have already been out for some time now, it's not like backing something brand new that might not come out.
Certainly seems like a complete no brainer to me, includes everything you need to make a game!
It's also needing Greenlight votes if you like the look of it!
What do you all make of it? Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Personally I like Unigine (Oil Rush) It's a little more expensive than Unity but it runs great and looks wonderful even on older machines. From my experience, Unity takes quite a toll on machines. Games like Kerbal and Verdun which use Unity, don't run very good even on hardware only a few years old.
I just built my computer last year yet games like those two run like molasses even on low. Of course this is from my observations of my few computers in house. This engine looks really nice though and I am grateful that we have more choice for developers. And no matter the cost of all these engines, I have heard of Indie devs being able to negotiate the price of Unigine and Unity.
Let's not forget about Ogre too, it's free and doesn't look that bad; Torchlight for example. Incidentally, Torchlight 2 I think uses Ogre, I wish we had a native port of that. I had a blast playing Torchlight.
I just built my computer last year yet games like those two run like molasses even on low. Of course this is from my observations of my few computers in house. This engine looks really nice though and I am grateful that we have more choice for developers. And no matter the cost of all these engines, I have heard of Indie devs being able to negotiate the price of Unigine and Unity.
Let's not forget about Ogre too, it's free and doesn't look that bad; Torchlight for example. Incidentally, Torchlight 2 I think uses Ogre, I wish we had a native port of that. I had a blast playing Torchlight.
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I agree with Mike Frett.
Unigine is already an impressive concurrent to Unity, and the latter runs slow even for title like broforce.
On the other hand, Torchlight uses 90% of opensource libraries and although the devs said the game will be released under GNU/Linux we had to wait for HiB owns employees to do the port. Using an opensource engine doesn't mean they have to play it fair and smart.
Unigine is already an impressive concurrent to Unity, and the latter runs slow even for title like broforce.
On the other hand, Torchlight uses 90% of opensource libraries and although the devs said the game will be released under GNU/Linux we had to wait for HiB owns employees to do the port. Using an opensource engine doesn't mean they have to play it fair and smart.
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Cheeseness Jun 17, 2013
The real news here isn't the engine; the news is the editor. Engines are one thing, but are ultimately useless without the editor to create and import content.QFT
It's tricky to compare this one to Unity as Unity's editor doesn't support Linux - you need to fire it up in Mac OS or Windows to make/build a game for Linux.
As for Unigine, I've heard rumours that its toolset is not as easy to work with as say, Unity or UDK, making it less attractive to developers (writing your own tools isn't a big deal, but it costs dev time, and since these things are targeting people who don't want to/can't invest time in writing their own engine, needing to write/tweak tools and workflows detracts from the appeal).
Definitely something I'm going to be keeping an eye on though. There seems to be a bunch of documentation and info on their site (which is linked to in the article above) which are probably worth having a look over.
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"Personally I like Unigine (Oil Rush) It's a little more expensive than Unity but it runs great and looks wonderful even on older machines."
A little more expensive? Doesn't it cost $1000s, IIRC a source code license is something like $50000!
A little more expensive? Doesn't it cost $1000s, IIRC a source code license is something like $50000!
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I have to agree with Mirv on the importance of the Editor itself coming to Linux. I hope Leadwerks succeed.
By the way, whatever happened to Torque3d? Looks like they're interest in bringing their editor to the Linux platform was just fluff... which is depressing. Their Github shows last commit as being a month ago for Linux, unless I'm looking in the wrong place.
By the way, whatever happened to Torque3d? Looks like they're interest in bringing their editor to the Linux platform was just fluff... which is depressing. Their Github shows last commit as being a month ago for Linux, unless I'm looking in the wrong place.
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Cheeseness Jun 17, 2013
"Personally I like Unigine (Oil Rush) It's a little more expensive than Unity but it runs great and looks wonderful even on older machines."What's a source licence for Unity worth though? It's probably worth noting that the Leadwerks source licence appears to be separate from what's included in the pledge rewards.
A little more expensive? Doesn't it cost $1000s, IIRC a source code license is something like $50000!
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I should have included it in my comment, but I wrote it while standing and was in a rush. Yes, totally true the real story is the editor, but what's the point if the games created run badly and make customers angry?. Apparently a Unity pro license is $1500 for all platforms and a Unigine license is something like $30,000 but as I said, I read about Indie devs being able to negotiate the price down to around $2000.
Of course none of this is helpful to Indie devs just starting out with little to no money. Which is why I noted Ogre. The more the merrier I say, right?.
Of course none of this is helpful to Indie devs just starting out with little to no money. Which is why I noted Ogre. The more the merrier I say, right?.
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The real news here isn't the engine; the news is the editor. Engines are one thing, but are ultimately useless without the editor to create and import content.This exactly.
Unity's editor doesn't support Linux but the Engine does. So this gives Leadwerks a bit in it's favour!
I have also heard Unigine isn't easy to work with and it's high price tag as well is probably why next to one in the indie scene uses it!
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I have to agree with Mirv on the importance of the Editor itself coming to Linux. I hope Leadwerks succeed.
By the way, whatever happened to Torque3d? Looks like they're interest in bringing their editor to the Linux platform was just fluff... which is depressing. Their Github shows last commit as being a month ago for Linux, unless I'm looking in the wrong place.
No, you're totally correct. GarageGames has committed to bringing the editor to Linux, but they needed a little help (the company is in rough shape, but is staying in business). They ran an ill-fated IndieGoGo project to do exactly what Leadwerks is doing, but they needed $30K, and ran a fixed-funding campaign (Kickstarter-style). I pledged to their campaign to help out.
The campaign would have benefited from a number of tweaks... in addition to very light interactivity with the backers (by today's crowd-funding standards), they also didn't even brag about Torque's clients' products' until late in the campaign! For example, there's the demo video from BeamNG, creators of an awesome soft-body physics engine... aside from obvious YouTube compression artifacts, the graphics may not seem too amazing until you realize that BeamNG are only two programmers & two artists, and they're only doing enough graphics to show off their physics engine!
It's pretty obvious that a larger, better funded, indie team with environment & texture artists could pull off AAA-quality with Torque3D... but GarageGames didn't sell that crucial point, unfortunately. It's already hard enough to put up, essentially, a free software project crowd-funding campaign, but I feel like they shot themselves in the foot on this one. Also, their campaign suffered the "IndieGoGo effect" (i.e., ~25% of the potential crowd-funding audience of Kickstarter).
Basically, when it ended, they said this was still important to them, but that they couldn't fund the port full-time. You know what that means... it's nights & weekends (and poking in a fix, here and there, between other features & deadlines), from the couple of folks willing to do it on their own. I hope that others (like Leadwerks) succeed and show there is a market for game creation on Linux with tools similar to that which Unity Technology provides. If that happens, then GarageGames could partner with an investor, or similar, to bring their editor over.
Also, the Linux version of their engine needs some love, but it's supposedly quite capable in the hands of a good video game programmer, albeit somewhat inflexible. Don't quote me on that, as I haven't used it personally, and am relaying what other developers have stated.
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If that happens, then GarageGames could partner with an investor, or similar, to bring their editor over.I definitely hope something that good would happen in the future for them. I had no idea about the demo being done by only four people! You raise some good points, I hope Leadwerks won't fall into the same pits of doom. 100$ for the licence is very reasonable, so I hope that it's doable in the time frame they've set up.
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I'm more interested in the open source contender... http://www.polycode.org
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I'm more interested in the open source contender... http://www.polycode.org
Holy crap, dude, where did that come from?! It looks awesome! Wonder why I've never heard of it... is it new?
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Personally I just hope one day we have something like Construct 2 or Multimedia Fusion on Linux as of yet nothing even comes close.
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As to people complaining about the performance of Unity games, I have only played Rochard as of yet, but it ran just fine on my older card with free software drivers. So bad performance certainly does not seem to be some kind of rule with it.
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Before you take a sip of this Kool Aid, you should stop for a second and take a look on the Leadwerks forums... see the Leadwerks 2 licensees and how they've been abandoned by Josh, as have their prayers to have bugs that have existed for months fixed... is this what you're looking forward to giving up your money for...
Look at the demo reel... notice that the examples are from from Leadwerks 2 projects... Leadwerks 3 has abandoned the level of graphics that were available in Leadwerks 2 for a more devolved version reminiscent of a bad dx7 renderer... you're not gonna get any of the graphics shown above from the current renderer...
A few weeks ago he was focused on mobile development... then it was on Steam distribution... now it's Linux... and all the while, the licensees of Leadwerks 3.0 are awaiting significant bug fixes, and anticipating paying more for features that should've been part of the initial release...
Sorry, but this looks to me more like a scheme to hook you, then get regular licensing fees... I've been a loyal Leadwerks licensee for years... i've seen bugs go unfixed... the api suddenly and arbitrarily changed, invalidating all existing code... features arbitrarily ripped out of the engine... never replaced... and anyone who dares question the status quo will be immediately banned from the forum, all access to docs and ancillary files revoked...
My Advice... do your homework... look past the advertising hype before you decide to part with your hard earned cash...
--Mike
Look at the demo reel... notice that the examples are from from Leadwerks 2 projects... Leadwerks 3 has abandoned the level of graphics that were available in Leadwerks 2 for a more devolved version reminiscent of a bad dx7 renderer... you're not gonna get any of the graphics shown above from the current renderer...
A few weeks ago he was focused on mobile development... then it was on Steam distribution... now it's Linux... and all the while, the licensees of Leadwerks 3.0 are awaiting significant bug fixes, and anticipating paying more for features that should've been part of the initial release...
Sorry, but this looks to me more like a scheme to hook you, then get regular licensing fees... I've been a loyal Leadwerks licensee for years... i've seen bugs go unfixed... the api suddenly and arbitrarily changed, invalidating all existing code... features arbitrarily ripped out of the engine... never replaced... and anyone who dares question the status quo will be immediately banned from the forum, all access to docs and ancillary files revoked...
My Advice... do your homework... look past the advertising hype before you decide to part with your hard earned cash...
--Mike
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@Mike Hense if you want people to beleive what you say it's usually a good idea to back up what you say, currently it's just words from a possible upset customer, something every company will have.
If you have proof it would be worth showing it to prove your point.
If you have proof it would be worth showing it to prove your point.
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@Mike Hense if you want people to beleive what you say it's usually a good idea to back up what you say, currently it's just words from a possible upset customer, something every company will have.You're 200% correct liamware... while i'm not an upset customer, i am a disappointed customer... (FACT1) i've had a Leadwerks license for 2 years.. i know Leadwerks and have seen it progress from a once bright light it was in the indie scene, to the desperate attempt for funding that is ( FACT2 ) the graphically devolved version of Leadwerks 2 that licensees are paying more for now... (FACT 3) The misleading exampleclips in the videos were ALL MADE BY LEADWERKS 2 DEVELOPERS, USING LEADWERKS 2... Leadwerks 3 is incapable of producing those graphics... (FACT4) Although promised that they would be fixed, there are still a substantial number of bugs remaining in Leadwerks 2... and with Leadwerks 3, Leadwerks For Steam, and now Leadwerks For Linux promised... what do you think are the chances these will be resolved... Hey, i could go on and on... but it would be better for you not to take my word for anything... but look on the forums... you'll see (if Josh hasn't deleted all of em yet) the posts about unresolved L2 bugs... there was even a post the other day from someone (a L3 licensee) that asked Josh to fix the significant bugs before moving onto anything else.... THESE PEOPLE PAYED FOR A LEADWERKS 3 LICENSE, AND SOON THEY'RE LIKELY GONNA BE FORCED TO PAY FOR AN UPDATE IN ORDER TO GET WHAT THEY SHOULD'VE GOTTEN IN THE ORIGINAL RELEASE... unless the Linux community decides to chip in and fund it for em... HEY, IT'S YOUR CHOICE... IT'S YOUR MONEY :)
If you have proof it would be worth showing it to prove your point.
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What precise feature of Leadwerks 2 have been removed in Leadworks 3?
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What precise feature of Leadwerks 2 have been removed in Leadworks 3?1- terrain... terrain editor...
2- advanced graphics... lighting... shadows...
3- water...
4- environment features like fog, skybox,
i could go on and on... but those are the ones that immediately come to mind...
go on the forum.... SEEEE FOR YOURSELF...
--Mike
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Hi, this is Josh, the founder of Leadwerks. In Leadwerks 3 we chose to focus first on the editor and art pipeline. Graphics are something I know well, so I am choosing to add the OpenGL 4 renderer last. I think the tools need to form the foundation and the graphics are the "icing on the cake". The plan is to finish the OpenGL 4 renderer, which is partially done now, and Linux support around the same time. I explained this in my blog over a year ago, so it's not like anyone was taken by surprise by our development plan.
Some of the screenshots in the video are showing the OpenGL 4 renderer and some are showing the old OpenGL 2 renderer. I wrote both, and they're all representative of the final product we're building. I've been working with deferred rendering for seven years, and most of it is just copy & paste.
The user posting this was banned from our forum for making inappropriate jokes about "roofies" in my blog.
Some of the screenshots in the video are showing the OpenGL 4 renderer and some are showing the old OpenGL 2 renderer. I wrote both, and they're all representative of the final product we're building. I've been working with deferred rendering for seven years, and most of it is just copy & paste.
The user posting this was banned from our forum for making inappropriate jokes about "roofies" in my blog.
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