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Something I have been meaning to do an editorial about for a while is game demo's, spurred on by PuppyGames blog posts on it (here and here) about them not supplying demo's for any of their games.
They make some interesting points mostly because they are talking about themselves and how demo's just didn't work for them.
Now I understand how times have changed since we have video's that can show you more than a demo could, after all you can skip to different parts of a video and see if you find it interesting or not. Sadly though I do disagree with them and not providing any demo's because how else are you supposed to check if a game will actually work on your system? Especially on Linux as even when using the same Distribution we may have slightly different configurations and the game may flat out just not work, a video cannot show you this (after all most videos will probably be of the game on Windows).
Also you need to take into account services like Steam, they seem to only offer a one time customer service gesture refund if you aren't happy with your purchase (or accidental purchase in my case of a whole bundle of games before), so if the game doesn't work on your system or it is full of bugs the developer isn't going to fix then you may be flat out of luck as you didn't get a demo to test it so that's your hard earned money wasted isn't it?
It does seem to be working for them though:
The problem is that if you want to test it without a demo what choice do you have? You buy it. So it's no wonder it is working for them.
Personally I do buy plenty of games that don't have a Demo so maybe they are right, I do always prefer to have a Demo first and If I like the game I do tend to buy it.
What are your thoughts faithful GOL readers? Do you think demo's aren't needed or like me do you think they will always have a place?
Also to make this a point, I am a fan of puppygames (especially Revenge of the Titans) this is a general editorial not an invitation for anyone to bash them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
They make some interesting points mostly because they are talking about themselves and how demo's just didn't work for them.
QuoteThis formula was: offer a demo, and convert demo players into customers by having amazing demos (and, as a secondary, offer a money back guarantee just in case a customer mysteriously wasn’t satisfied). All you need is a large enough influx of traffic downloading a large enough number of demo’s and a large enough conversion rate. Simple! And this we have done, for the last 10 years.
To cut a long story short, it doesn’t work for us.
Today, none of our games have a demo, and they probably never will have again, either. The Demo is dead.
Now I understand how times have changed since we have video's that can show you more than a demo could, after all you can skip to different parts of a video and see if you find it interesting or not. Sadly though I do disagree with them and not providing any demo's because how else are you supposed to check if a game will actually work on your system? Especially on Linux as even when using the same Distribution we may have slightly different configurations and the game may flat out just not work, a video cannot show you this (after all most videos will probably be of the game on Windows).
Also you need to take into account services like Steam, they seem to only offer a one time customer service gesture refund if you aren't happy with your purchase (or accidental purchase in my case of a whole bundle of games before), so if the game doesn't work on your system or it is full of bugs the developer isn't going to fix then you may be flat out of luck as you didn't get a demo to test it so that's your hard earned money wasted isn't it?
It does seem to be working for them though:
QuoteThere’s no harm in being wrong. We can be wrong. We’re going on what the data tells us, and we have a lot of data. We’ve sold 481,529 games in the last 3 years, and 30,246 of those have been to people who played a demo. That means the other 451,283 sales were made without anyone ever seeing a demo. If you want percentages, that’s 6%. We’re quite happy to be proved wrong! If the data tells us we’re wrong, we’ll go back to using demo’s.
The problem is that if you want to test it without a demo what choice do you have? You buy it. So it's no wonder it is working for them.
Personally I do buy plenty of games that don't have a Demo so maybe they are right, I do always prefer to have a Demo first and If I like the game I do tend to buy it.
What are your thoughts faithful GOL readers? Do you think demo's aren't needed or like me do you think they will always have a place?
Also to make this a point, I am a fan of puppygames (especially Revenge of the Titans) this is a general editorial not an invitation for anyone to bash them. Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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[[url=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/416824/game-demos-halve-sales-new-data-suggests/]http://www.computerandvideogames.com/416824/game-demos-halve-sales-new-data-suggests/](http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2008/04/study-suggests-game-demos-are-bad-business-for-publishers/)[/url]
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The thing is, some Demos are so good, that I'm actually satisfied enough not to bother with buying the Game. I agree with the guy to be honest, sometimes the Demo is good enough for a few minutes of fun everyday.
People are generally busy and want something short and to the point anyway. I play Civ2 in Wine quite a bit, I've been playing the SAME Game, for the past 10 years, off and on. There was a story awhile back about a guy playing the same game he created in Civ2 for many years also.
People are generally busy and want something short and to the point anyway. I play Civ2 in Wine quite a bit, I've been playing the SAME Game, for the past 10 years, off and on. There was a story awhile back about a guy playing the same game he created in Civ2 for many years also.
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I myself have never played a demo. And I agree that the demo is dying if not dead already.
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Demo is a must. I've purchased lots of games with bad metacritics because I tried the demos and liked them.
One example is Space Pirates and Zombies. Critics rated it like a boring game, that takes ages to finish and such things. Tried the demo and bought it immediately. Incredibly fun game, lots of replayability.
I bought Revenge of the Titans (puppygames) after looking it on youtube. No demo. Played some maps and got bored to death. Wasted money for me. I've refrained from buying more puppy games until they release a demo for them.
One example is Space Pirates and Zombies. Critics rated it like a boring game, that takes ages to finish and such things. Tried the demo and bought it immediately. Incredibly fun game, lots of replayability.
I bought Revenge of the Titans (puppygames) after looking it on youtube. No demo. Played some maps and got bored to death. Wasted money for me. I've refrained from buying more puppy games until they release a demo for them.
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Probably a silly question, but howdo they know if the customer played a demo or not?
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Probably a silly question, but howdo they know if the customer played a demo or not?
The only thing that comes to mind is number of downloads. And if the demo is on Steam, the number of downloads there etc.
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I've been burned too many times with games not running on my system that I don't buy games--unless they are ridiculously cheap--without a demo. Hell, even just a three-minute "trailer" of sorts would be fine. I want to know that I can actually install the game and at least start it up without it immediately segfaulting or complaining that I need to install some dependency that I don't have access to. I've also run into issues with a lot of games just running so poorly on my system that it's not worth it, because they're slow or jumpy or whatever. Any developer who wants to release games on Linux without any sort of demo needs to have a policy where you can get a refund if you can demonstrate that you're unable to play it (screenshots, for example).
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Well I used to play demos in the past, when the internet wasn´t there yet, it was interesting to see an article about a game on a magazine and have the oportunity to try it, I bought various games because of the demo (like The Dig, Full Throttle, The Curse of Monkey Island and others) but nowadays I really don´t use them, with the trailers and gameplays videos you can have a good idea of the game, I have done this and it works for me (I bough Revenge of the Titans, Sword & Sworcery, S.P.A.Z. and others and liked them a lot), when the game doesn´t run or if in case I have problems I keep in touch with the devs and get everything resolved.
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The new trend is "Free to Play". Isn't it some kind of Demo? :)
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More demos, please. I'm reluctant to spend money if I don't know that the game will actually work on my computer. I'm not sure I'd ever have gotten anything from the Puppy Games catalogue besides Revenge (which was only due to HIB) if it wasn't for the demos. Personally, the sort of game where I could be satisfied by just playing the demo isn't the sort of game I'm looking to buy. I don't wish to accuse PG of unsavory business practices, but it's not a huge stretch to conclude that sort of transaction doesn't benefit the customer - I give you money and then play an unsatisfying game for five minutes. Puppy are British, I think. Therefore we sing: "no income tax, no VAT / no money back, no guarantee".
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Demo's are nice to have but I don't think they really do much for the devs:
View video on youtube.com
View video on youtube.com
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As an indie developer I'm struggling with this too. I have a work in progress demo for my game, that I put out there to get feedback. The trouble is the demo is turning out to be punishingly difficult - great feedback, which is helping me make the final game more playable. Its just that I worry that the demo will have put people off, when its not necessarily representative for the final experience.
http://www.mammothgravitybattles.com
http://www.mammothgravitybattles.com
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I do think that demos are hard to nail. I feel they are a necessity in the Linux world, because nothing really tells me for sure that the game plays without playing the game. A demo lets me do so without committing funds, but also without the dev just giving the game away (which is insane unless it's FOSS).
PuppyGames, if you read closely, claims that the unregistered version of their game (well, one of them anyway) will render the trailer inside the game's engine rather than video playback. This is the clever technical wizardry that allows him to perform the function of the demo. That clearly cannot work for all games, though. How does one demonstrate joystick/gamepad support via pre-rendered trailer? How does one demonstrate proper netcode via pre-rendered trailer?
Speaking of demos, anyone interested in turn-based strategy (esp. TBS set in WWII) ought to check out the Unity of Command demo, and play the test scenario. The game is wicked fun... I'm trying to convince the devs to post the Linux build up at Desura (along with their Red Turn DLC) as they only have the Windows & Mac versions there.
Moreover, Desura can distribute DLC's now (as seen with the Steel Storm Weapon Shop DLC, and all the Dredmor DLCs), and they can distribute them as standalone archives (Gaslamp does this with Dredmor, Kot-In-Action does not with the Weapon Pack). So, I would really appreciate any like-minded Linux gamers sending a nice e-mail to [email protected] asking for the Linux build of Unity of Command & the Red Turn DLC.
Anyway, thread hijack over now; my point, (a single, subjective, data point) was that it was exclusively by playing the UoC demo that I've become convinced to support them and buy their expansion pack, as well. I'd be interested in expansions and mods beyond Red Turn, even.
Sounds like you may have benefited from running a small beta for the demo (unless you did that!), so you could not only tune the game, but also gather some feedback to use in managing expectations. Perhaps there are times when it is proper to pull the demo until it offers the experience your audience really needs to make their decision. I see no harm in pulling a demo that is causing problems, to replace it with something better later on. If it's absolutely necessary, maybe it's OK to give up on the demo entirely, though the lack of a demo can introduce some indecision.
Perhaps it would be prudent for some developers to only distribute a Linux demo, reducing the amount of work needed for building and tuning demos on all of the ports. Gameplay footage may be sufficient, in general, to promise proper functionality for most Windows & Mac games.
In any case, Mammoth Gravity Battles looks neat, and I wish you all the best!
PuppyGames, if you read closely, claims that the unregistered version of their game (well, one of them anyway) will render the trailer inside the game's engine rather than video playback. This is the clever technical wizardry that allows him to perform the function of the demo. That clearly cannot work for all games, though. How does one demonstrate joystick/gamepad support via pre-rendered trailer? How does one demonstrate proper netcode via pre-rendered trailer?
Speaking of demos, anyone interested in turn-based strategy (esp. TBS set in WWII) ought to check out the Unity of Command demo, and play the test scenario. The game is wicked fun... I'm trying to convince the devs to post the Linux build up at Desura (along with their Red Turn DLC) as they only have the Windows & Mac versions there.
Moreover, Desura can distribute DLC's now (as seen with the Steel Storm Weapon Shop DLC, and all the Dredmor DLCs), and they can distribute them as standalone archives (Gaslamp does this with Dredmor, Kot-In-Action does not with the Weapon Pack). So, I would really appreciate any like-minded Linux gamers sending a nice e-mail to [email protected] asking for the Linux build of Unity of Command & the Red Turn DLC.
Anyway, thread hijack over now; my point, (a single, subjective, data point) was that it was exclusively by playing the UoC demo that I've become convinced to support them and buy their expansion pack, as well. I'd be interested in expansions and mods beyond Red Turn, even.
As an indie developer I'm struggling with this too. I have a work in progress demo for my game, that I put out there to get feedback. The trouble is the demo is turning out to be punishingly difficult - great feedback, which is helping me make the final game more playable. Its just that I worry that the demo will have put people off, when its not necessarily representative for the final experience.
http://www.mammothgravitybattles.com
Sounds like you may have benefited from running a small beta for the demo (unless you did that!), so you could not only tune the game, but also gather some feedback to use in managing expectations. Perhaps there are times when it is proper to pull the demo until it offers the experience your audience really needs to make their decision. I see no harm in pulling a demo that is causing problems, to replace it with something better later on. If it's absolutely necessary, maybe it's OK to give up on the demo entirely, though the lack of a demo can introduce some indecision.
Perhaps it would be prudent for some developers to only distribute a Linux demo, reducing the amount of work needed for building and tuning demos on all of the ports. Gameplay footage may be sufficient, in general, to promise proper functionality for most Windows & Mac games.
In any case, Mammoth Gravity Battles looks neat, and I wish you all the best!
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I like trying demos first mostly to see that the game works and has good performance on my computer. There's some awful ports out there that I don't want to spend money on.
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"Game Demo's" what? what is it to which you refer that belongs to "game demo" ????
Oh, maybe you meant "game Demos" ??
Oh, maybe you meant "game Demos" ??
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Oh, maybe you meant "game Demos" ??You've unnecessarily capitalized a common noun, namely "Demos".
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Hah owned.Oh, maybe you meant "game Demos" ??You've unnecessarily capitalized a common noun, namely "Demos".
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Is capitalization under the jurisdiction of the Spelling Police? I have never been Quite sure...Oh, maybe you meant "game Demos" ??You've unnecessarily capitalized a common noun, namely "Demos".
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Qantourisc Aug 9, 2013
If I game doesn't has a demo, this means I have to take a risk.
This almost always means I'll only buy the game on sale.
Also not that I'm for this, but some people will pirate it instead, that's an even lower change for them buying the game.
These are mine view on this, but I might be one of those 6% :)
It then gives them 99 excuses not to buy the game.
->Excuses or reasons ?
I got my fill of gameplay already from the demo.
-> Smaller demo, simple.
In-App Purchase
-> I never use those! Maybe add a question box during buying: did you play the demo BEFORE assuming in-app purchases will be used by anyone.
So we know at this point that the game is going to run fine on your machine, and more importantly, so do you.
-> Welcome to lib-hell, some games don't ship static libs as a fallback.
Humble Indie Bundle
-> Quess twice how I calc the value of the bundle ?
Change I like the game * Change the game runs * What I would normally pay.
(So always smaller then what I would have paid.)
This almost always means I'll only buy the game on sale.
Also not that I'm for this, but some people will pirate it instead, that's an even lower change for them buying the game.
These are mine view on this, but I might be one of those 6% :)
It then gives them 99 excuses not to buy the game.
->Excuses or reasons ?
I got my fill of gameplay already from the demo.
-> Smaller demo, simple.
In-App Purchase
-> I never use those! Maybe add a question box during buying: did you play the demo BEFORE assuming in-app purchases will be used by anyone.
So we know at this point that the game is going to run fine on your machine, and more importantly, so do you.
-> Welcome to lib-hell, some games don't ship static libs as a fallback.
Humble Indie Bundle
-> Quess twice how I calc the value of the bundle ?
Change I like the game * Change the game runs * What I would normally pay.
(So always smaller then what I would have paid.)
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Qantourisc Aug 9, 2013
Demo's are nice to have but I don't think they really do much for the devs:And for half of those outcomes you game sucked ... Well of course it's going to bias the results ...
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