So here we are again GOL readers, time for another one of my awful editorials and this time I am asking you/talking at you the glorious community about Wine ports!
First of all, if you don't know what Wine is then get out (or just go to WineHQ). So Wine is a very useful resource at times to run something under Linux that you couldn't do normally, it does however come with its own set of problems.
To me there is a time when a Wine port is better than no port at all, take System Shock 2 for example they no longer have the source code for it (it's not exactly a new game), so rather than us buying a version marked for windows and then manually setting it up in Wine we have a chance to show the sale is for Linux, this gives another developer some Linux sales stats to look at, better than just seeing Windows sale right?
Well that can also come with a downside as well, it can make other developers fall in line and simple say "let's just do wine ports" this could be dangerous for Linux to see more of, but what choice does a developer have when the source is no more?
You could also see it from this side - what if a developer built a game that uses closed source middleware that cannot be ported to Linux, see LIMBO in one of the Humble Bundles as an example of this. The developer teamed up with Humble for the port and Humble went to Codeweavers (creators of Crossover and Wine financial supporters) who got a backlash about the "port" because of its use of Wine, a lot of their feedback even included people stating it worked better to use the Windows version in Wine rather than their custom Wine port.
Should a developer rip out a whole chunk of their game and rewrite parts of it? That would cost time and money which especially for indie developers comes at a high price. Would it not be better to get a supported version using Wine where the developer has tested it? I say no personally, read on for why.
I spoke to Ryan "Icculus" Gordon, porter of many games to Linux on the matter and he had this to say:
A pretty good answer from Ryan and of course I wholeheartedly agree on it, there are a lot of big name publishers who probably don't even know what Linux is and so Wine is sadly needed to run their games until Linux gaming builds enough momentum to appear on their radars. As Ryan says as well for older games it can be a life saver as many developers may not look back at their older games.
One of the main problems with Wine ports is performance and configuring, Wine users will be no stranger to spending hours configuring Wine and installing extra packages to get games to work only to then have half the performance of the same game under Windows. Wine is after all translating DirectX calls to OpenGL, people may claim there isn't a performance drop, but anyone who actually spends time using Wine will know there can be massively poor performance.
What if there is a bug in Wine itself that makes the game have horrible glitches? The developer would then need to contact Wine and either hope they fix it or try to get into programming for Wine and fix it themselves, when they could spend that time creating a real port.
Then you have to deal with Wine updates, a single update from one version of Wine to another can completely break a game (this has sadly happened to me before) and rolling back to an older version isn't as simple as 1-2-3 done.
Minor Point
You then need to take into account file system clutter, each "port" using wine will have a folder full of wine specific files to emulate a windows environment along with all the extra libraries from Windows programs they need to run, every single "port" will have this, it can end up taking up not just a lot of space, but completely cluttering up your file system which is in my eyes not a major issue, one for the people with file/folder OCD for things to be neat.
Although I suppose it could become an issue for someone wanting to backup saved games, it could take a while to find them.
Last Thought
The main thing it all comes down to is perception, Linux users generally don't like feeling like they are getting half-arsed games, and developers may find they get a backlash if it is not a traditional port. After all developers need money and a good name for themselves, why risk getting a bad name on Linux for doing what Linux users may see as lazy by bundling it with something they could set up themselves?
First of all, if you don't know what Wine is then get out (or just go to WineHQ). So Wine is a very useful resource at times to run something under Linux that you couldn't do normally, it does however come with its own set of problems.
To me there is a time when a Wine port is better than no port at all, take System Shock 2 for example they no longer have the source code for it (it's not exactly a new game), so rather than us buying a version marked for windows and then manually setting it up in Wine we have a chance to show the sale is for Linux, this gives another developer some Linux sales stats to look at, better than just seeing Windows sale right?
Well that can also come with a downside as well, it can make other developers fall in line and simple say "let's just do wine ports" this could be dangerous for Linux to see more of, but what choice does a developer have when the source is no more?
You could also see it from this side - what if a developer built a game that uses closed source middleware that cannot be ported to Linux, see LIMBO in one of the Humble Bundles as an example of this. The developer teamed up with Humble for the port and Humble went to Codeweavers (creators of Crossover and Wine financial supporters) who got a backlash about the "port" because of its use of Wine, a lot of their feedback even included people stating it worked better to use the Windows version in Wine rather than their custom Wine port.
Should a developer rip out a whole chunk of their game and rewrite parts of it? That would cost time and money which especially for indie developers comes at a high price. Would it not be better to get a supported version using Wine where the developer has tested it? I say no personally, read on for why.
I spoke to Ryan "Icculus" Gordon, porter of many games to Linux on the matter and he had this to say:
Ryan GordonI consider Wine useful for archeology's sake. There are games that won't ever be ported and it helps guarantee they won't be lost to the ages. I can imagine a near-future where that's even helpful to running old Windows games on modern Microsoft OSes, just like DOSBox is popular now.
I've said before that it's better than nothing for today's games, for the times when today's publishers won't return your calls. But I'm hoping that as Linux games build momentum, that we start looking at those publishers as bad citizens of the gaming community, and the problem becomes social and economic instead of technological.
A pretty good answer from Ryan and of course I wholeheartedly agree on it, there are a lot of big name publishers who probably don't even know what Linux is and so Wine is sadly needed to run their games until Linux gaming builds enough momentum to appear on their radars. As Ryan says as well for older games it can be a life saver as many developers may not look back at their older games.
One of the main problems with Wine ports is performance and configuring, Wine users will be no stranger to spending hours configuring Wine and installing extra packages to get games to work only to then have half the performance of the same game under Windows. Wine is after all translating DirectX calls to OpenGL, people may claim there isn't a performance drop, but anyone who actually spends time using Wine will know there can be massively poor performance.
What if there is a bug in Wine itself that makes the game have horrible glitches? The developer would then need to contact Wine and either hope they fix it or try to get into programming for Wine and fix it themselves, when they could spend that time creating a real port.
Then you have to deal with Wine updates, a single update from one version of Wine to another can completely break a game (this has sadly happened to me before) and rolling back to an older version isn't as simple as 1-2-3 done.
Minor Point
You then need to take into account file system clutter, each "port" using wine will have a folder full of wine specific files to emulate a windows environment along with all the extra libraries from Windows programs they need to run, every single "port" will have this, it can end up taking up not just a lot of space, but completely cluttering up your file system which is in my eyes not a major issue, one for the people with file/folder OCD for things to be neat.
Although I suppose it could become an issue for someone wanting to backup saved games, it could take a while to find them.
Last Thought
The main thing it all comes down to is perception, Linux users generally don't like feeling like they are getting half-arsed games, and developers may find they get a backlash if it is not a traditional port. After all developers need money and a good name for themselves, why risk getting a bad name on Linux for doing what Linux users may see as lazy by bundling it with something they could set up themselves?
Some you may have missed, popular articles from the last month:
That's why LIMBO was used an example in my article ;)
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Quoting: liamdaweThat's why LIMBO was used an example in my article ;)Yes, and LIMBO shows exactly what's wrong with giving them a pass for using Wine, why they should have rewritten parts of the game, why the backlash was justified.
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Well, I read they are using Unity to make Project 2, so a Linux port will be much more easy (unless they changed the engine), I prefer native ports as most of you stated, Wine is a fix, it´s not 100% trustable since you can run a game flawlessly in one version and have the game crashed in another, it happened to me a lot of times! The HD space is another point, some Steam games run well only in one Wine version, so sometimes you have to install Steam in multiple Wine bottles to run only one game, in my opinion "Wine ports" are not good at all.
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Quoting: hardpenguinWine ports are a good solution under one condition - they have to work flawlessly. I am actually looking forward to Transgaming to join up, authors of officially released Cider ports (Wine-like technology to bring games to Mac) and developers of not really popular Cedega. We all know that CodeWeavers ports were not perfect (ohh Limbo). But if such huge company as EA could release The Sims or Assasin's Creed on Mac with Transgaming technology, why wouldn't this happen to Linux?
I used to have a Cedega subscription back when Transgaming was trying to survive on end-user subscribers more than "porting" fees from the development side -- what recent news about Transgaming are you looking forward to?
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I don't see Cider being exciting since it's essentially a wine wrapper, Cider is basically Cedega marketed to companies, so it's essentially Wine deep down = not native at all.
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I hate Transgaming. Sadly, people gave them money for WineX when they should have let them go under. Do they still support their Linux hacks ports? For example, the Kohan games? I don't see them listed in their webstore, and I see nowhere else to buy it these days...
Meanwhile, the one Loki port we got is still in stock (albeit pricey) at TuxGames. I bet if I broke out my dusty disc, the installer from LIFLG would work.
Meanwhile, the one Loki port we got is still in stock (albeit pricey) at TuxGames. I bet if I broke out my dusty disc, the installer from LIFLG would work.
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I use wine very much and considering the limited documentation available they have done an incredible job. I use it mainly for running mu older Windows games (pre 2002 over 300 of them) and in 90% of the cases it runs them great (albeit with a few tweaks here and there) Great job i say keep it up
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Quoting: liamdaweThen you have to deal with Wine updates, a single update from one version of Wine to another can completely break a game (this has sadly happened to me before) and rolling back to an older version isn't as simple as 1-2-3 done.
Only once? :P
At any rate, I use Wine heavily for archaeological purposes, but I would never use it for a modern game. The only modern games I play are Linux native and DRM free, and that's final. The good part of this is that Wine works best with older games anyway, and I personally feel they should put even more of a focus on these and less time on moderns ones, but I am hardly in a position to tell them what to do.
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Quoting: SpeedsterI used to have a Cedega subscription back when Transgaming was trying to survive on end-user subscribers more than "porting" fees from the development side -- what recent news about Transgaming are you looking forward to?
Quoting: liamdaweI don't see Cider being exciting since it's essentially a wine wrapper, Cider is basically Cedega marketed to companies, so it's essentially Wine deep down = not native at all.Well, my point was, if you'd like to see games like those from this list: http://transgaming.com/cider/games - for example Prince of Persia, The Sims, Need for Speed franchises officially released on Linux, this would be the very only way for now. It took some time unless such publisher as Aspyr appeared and started porting games natively on Mac.
EDIT:
Here's a short look on Mac gaming situation. Can we compare Linux to this?
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1499819
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Why people complain about installing wine and worrying an update will break a program (as is the case with anything look at windows updates) just use playonlinux, install the wine engine it works with, done never worry about a wine update again
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